Liberating Motherhood

[higherFaith]

You can't put all the blame on women.

 

[Antigone]

Abuse also has increased greatly since the feminist revolution in the 60s

No, the number of reported abuse cases has risen. In the days when abortion was illegal and beating your kid was not, you'd obviously get different statistics that don't reflect today's norm.

 

[Meepy]

No, the number of reported abuse cases has risen. In the days when abortion was illegal and beating your kid was not, you'd obviously get different statistics that don't reflect today's norm.

whatever makes you feel better...

 

[higherFaith]

whatever makes you feel better...

Are you honestly stating that children are safer with the father than the mother?

 

[Meepy]

You can't put all the blame on women.

Never did. Just showing how when a union breaks down in marriage it hurts greatly the children and the parents in it. Or when the moral structure of the family is hurting and reduced how it increases the rates of dysfunction. The reason why abuse is so high in single mother households is because they cannot do it alone. God did not create Eve as a standalone. This is why abandonment is wrong, and why wives need their husbands.

 

[SolomonVII]

I don't know if you're paraphrasing what you said (about the bicycle) or quoting what I said... That's not what I said, I said "the fact that a woman doesn't have kids doesn't mean that she doesn't need a man." So, if a woman is childless, she may still need a man - you know, want to be married, want someone to share her life with.

Oh well that clears things up, I guess. Adding four doesn'ts to the sentence instread of three (or is it three doesn'ts instead of two) does make it so much clearer and less cryptic to me now.

That is to say is it doesn't.
My bad.

 

[Meepy]

Are you honestly stating that children are safer with the father than the mother?

statistically, yes. The charts show children have a much higher chance of being abused in single mother households than any other type of household. Didn't you look at the graphs?

This happens because single mother households are against natural law. A mother cannot function properly in such conditions where she has to be both leader and provider of the children. This is why the ideal that women "don't need their husbands" is a very harmful one.

 

[higherFaith]

statistically, yes. The charts show children have a much higher chance of being abused in single mother households than any other type of household. Didn't you look at the graphs?

This happens because single mother households are against natural law. A mother cannot function properly in such conditions where she has to be both leader and provider of the children. This is why the ideal that women "don't need their husbands" is a very harmful one.

I could cope very well thank you. Just as my mother did.

 

[Antigone]

statistically, yes. The charts show children have a much higher chance of being abused in single mother households than any other type of household. Didn't you look at the graphs?

This happens because single mother households are against natural law. A mother cannot function properly in such conditions where she has to be both leader and provider of the children. This is why the ideal that women "don't need their husbands" is a very harmful one.

No, that's because the social circumstances in a single-father household are usually different from a single-mother household. Single mothers are poorer and less healthy than single fathers, for one.

Again, you can't blame this on gender only.

 

[Meepy]

I could cope very well thank you. Just as my mother did.

17% for fathers, 40% for mothers.

40% doesn't mean everyone. The other 60% make it. But 40% is a blaring red light that something is very wrong regarding spouses not needing each other.

In Catholic teaching, marriage is taught as a series of conjugal duties and a self reciprocation of love, sacrifice, and good works between the spouses. There is a synergistic action between all people in the household. Some parts can seem hard and boring, but it is done for the greater good, love, and sacrifice for ones spouse and God. Each person must keep the marriage well oiled, so to say, otherwise if one part of the marriage is hurting, the whole part is. Husbands should love their wives as Christ loved his disciples. Wives should reverence their husbands as one would reverence the Church itself. When a wife submits to her husband, she does so out of love for him and God, not because she feels forced to. The Husband then protects, nourishes, and supports his wife and children. There is a self giving over to ones spouse. As neither the wife or husband is independent of themselves anymore, but rather a union of one together(one flesh).

 

[benedictaoo]

Do mothers kill their kids more often than fathers in the US?

(I don't know the stats over here.)

Moms is who gets the media spotlight. Some men have but I have no idea what the stats are.

I'm sure the men folk here are going to flip out by me saying this but you know I would not tell you something that was not actually true.

The cases I know of usually involves the dad not wanting to pay child support.

and men kill the pregnant wives and girlfriend a lot. They do not want to pay child support and/or do not want the lifestyle of kids so they kill the pregnant women.

I read about a story of a man who wanted nothing to do with his child he had with some woman he got pregnant. She took him to court for child support and then he insisted on visitation and the child was afraid of him ever since the first time she had to go with him. One day on a visit, he pushed her off a cliff. He was convicted. He just didn't want to pay child support.

So while women kill their kids becuase there is something radically wrong with them... (some are just sociopaths) men do it out of a real place of just evil.

 

[SolomonVII]

statistically, yes. The charts show children have a much higher chance of being abused in single mother households than any other type of household. Didn't you look at the graphs?

This happens because single mother households are against natural law. A mother cannot function properly in such conditions where she has to be both leader and provider of the children. This is why the ideal that women "don't need their husbands" is a very harmful one.

Interesting.
Does it include emotional abuse?

 

[benedictaoo]

yeah she is basically saying,

honey, make me happy and take the garbage out or while you are at work tomorrow i shoot the kids

No, not at all BA. The wife has a illness, could be postpartum depression, could be a hormonal imbalance, could be anything... and its going ignored and ignored and she has all this on her plate and the husband is all idealist about her "role" and thinks this is her God given calling in life to do all this stuff becuase that is what the self sacrificing women does if she loves her husband and God.

So he does not fully realise this, that it is not about that but about the fact that there is a pathology present.

The love of his life, she is just not right and he's so awesome at his role, and loves her so much, he. doesn't. even. notice.

She tried to tell him over and over, kinda like I'm telling y'all here and he just blows her off and refuses to acknowledge that there is a such thing as stress and that she is stressed out and in a real bad place emotionally.

In the extreme cases, the women snaps becuase in her sick mind she feels the kids would be better off becuase she knows she sucks at being a mother.

Okay?

 

[benedictaoo]

my relative was able to support herself by stealing the kids and moving in witht he man she was having an affair with

her boyfriend worked part time while her husband had to give her the house a car and lost custody of the kids and he to pay child support which she used to buy herself new clothes and a cruise to europe for her and her bf while the kids stayed with her parents

sometimes i wonder why he did not just kill himself, but that would be betraying her wouldn't it ?

Them bad evil women, whatcha going to do? Men, poor things, they just can't live with them... and they just can't live with them.

I use to date a guy a looong time ago who use to say that. It was hilarious... "women, you can't live with them and just can't... live with them".

 

[benedictaoo]

reality is subjective. To accept something as 'reality' and do nothing because of it is the exact reason why moral progress becomes so stalemate and stagnant. Its almost like throwing in the towel and giving up. Its good to have an ideal, because it is a goal for one to progress to. Without an ideal you wander around without direction. God knows us best, the Church knows us best. The encyclicals and scriptures on marriage and roles do have utmost bearing. The problems are happening because we won't follow them. We want to do it our way instead of God's way. These things are happening because no one is putting effort into things like marriage reform and divorce reform.

St. Thomas More was an idealist. He would not accept the "reality" of what was happening in England and he was martyred because of it. But he died for what he believed in. And that should be human beings goal. To strive towards the ideals and commands of God

Can you just concede a point?

All I'm saying is a husband should love his wife enough to, at times, understand that the stress of a home and kids can be overwhelming and he should at that point understand and be willing to do what she needs him to do to make her feel good about her life again.

I hope for your own sake, you understand.

 

[benedictaoo]

yes, child abuse has the highest rate in single mother households. For some reason it is OVER twice as high in single mother households than single father households. In this context the ideal of independent single mothers is obviously something that is very harmful to children. This is why wives need their husbands.

They need good husbands who aren't control freaks and/or insensitive men who refuse to care about their wives and children's needs and actually help the wife with the kids and not think its her job.

I would assume you would agree?

But you make an interesting point, you actually confirm mine. The stress can be too much for a women and this can and has happened with a husband.

 

[Meepy]

No, not at all BA. The wife has a illness, could be postpartum depression, could be a hormonal imbalance, could be anything... and its going ignored and ignored and she has all this on her plate and the husband is all idealist about her "role" and thinks this is her God given calling in life to do all this stuff becuase that is what the self sacrificing women does if she loves her husband and God.

So he does not fully realise this, that it is not about that but about the fact that there is a pathology present.

The love of his life, she is just not right and he's so awesome at his role, and loves her so much, he. doesn't. even. notice.

She tried to tell him over and over, kinda like I'm telling y'all here and he just blows her off and refuses to acknowledge that there is a such thing as stress and that she is stressed out and in a real bad place emotionally.

In the extreme cases, the women snaps becuase in her sick mind she feels the kids would be better off becuase she knows she sucks at being a mother.

Okay?

sounds more like a selfish nutcase with bi-polar disorder and thinks as if they are the only ones under stress.

Usually with people like that nothing will make them happy. Because they are always looking for something wrong. Want a scapegoat for their "hormone problems". The walking on eggshells types pretty much who think in a very 'centered' type of mindset.

A woman with that type of emotional state should not be in a marriage. If she cannot handle herself or her emotions she is not ready for marriage. If she only thinks about her happiness all the time then she is not ready.

Thank the Lord I never married a woman like that. I know some who have and they are at each others necks all the time. I remember dating some when I was young too. Those types are not marriage material.


And then we look at the blessed Mother. Who says, "YOUR will be done", not "my will be done". Who rode on a donkey all the way to Egypt with her husband,, pregnant, and gave birth in a manger. Who trusted God and her husband. Here we see the humility and love of a real woman who loves her husband and God. This is the model families should follow. The humility of Mary and the protection and guidance of Joseph. Their ultimate trust in both of each other and God. Joseph didn't abandon Mary at the times of trial, nor did Mary complain about "her happiness" and what "she wanted", nor blame Joseph, but rather ultimately followed God in love with her husband in filial trust.

This is the sacrifice and love I am talking about that is needed in marriage.

 

[higherFaith]

It almost sounds like women should be slaves.

 

[benedictaoo]

Interesting.
Does it include emotional abuse?

Probably becuase the mother is the primary care giver, you know becuase its her "role"... and men don't have much to do with their kids becuase his role is to work and go home and is off the clock while the women brings him his slippers, newspaper and a pipe while she cooks dinner and serves him, as if he can't make his own dang plate of food.

So you want to tell me again how you still think its "freeing" and fulfilling?

You have the stats right there honey, or are you going to blame this too on the feminist?

 

[benedictaoo]

It almost sounds like women should be slaves.

No, not slaves, love... love, she does it out of looooove for him and God.

How you like that- she is a slave for the man becuase she loves God.