The death of the Virgin in RCC imagery

[Optimax]

The Assumption is part of the Gospel.

We just don't have a minimalistic view of the Faith.

As many times as I have read the NT I have completely missed where the Assumption is in there.

What Book, Chapter and verse so I can look it up.

Thanks

 

[Rhamiel]

The Assumption is part of the Gospel.

We just don't have a minimalistic view of the Faith.

well said my dear sister in Christ

 

[Rhamiel]

As many times as I have read the NT I have completely missed where the Assumption is in there.

What Book, Chapter and verse so I can look it up.

Thanks

it is not mentioned in the Bible
but it is the a Christian teaching from the early Church

 

[godisreal36]

Peters great Faith is the Rock? That faith really can move mountains made of rock which is a Huge stumbling Block.

Peters Faith was the Rock Christ spoke of, I never knew that, that is something. I knew he had great faith though.

I wonder how much faith one would need to leave old teaching in the dark ages?

The dark ages was very dark, it was hard to see things clearly.

The bible talks of stones and rocks many times in many ways. Allot of Wisdom found in rocks and stones. It can be a weapon to harm others if thrown in Judgment, it can be a weapon that slays a Giant named Goliath also.

A mountain is made of rock, A stumbling block is made of Rock and Faith moves mountains. A rock known as faith makes a strong foundation also.

Faith has a great ally in Grace when combined properly.

 

[AveMaria_45]

As many times as I have read the NT I have completely missed where the Assumption is in there.

What Book, Chapter and verse so I can look it up.

Thanks

look up george washington first

oh he's not there. i guess he was never alive

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I was looking for Jesus and found Mary and The Pope...

What are all these complex Vatican teachings?

I think its easier to just continue to be an atheist.

The Holy Spirit's gifts of Knowledge and Understanding make these "complex Vatican teachings" something that is simple and brings greater familiarity with our Lord Jesus Christ. Just like when you finally meet your wife's family and learn more about her.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

As many times as I have read the NT I have completely missed where the Assumption is in there.

What Book, Chapter and verse so I can look it up.

Thanks

Roman Catholics do not keep Jesus Christ confined to the Bible. He is much greater than that to us and we have so much more because we have both oral and written traditions that the Apostles left. You and all are welcome to them. However, like LLoJ's funny little picture depicts, there is fear in the unknown.

 

[godisreal36]

Jesus is Lord and Savior. Grace sustains us all.

Love, truth and mercy are hard to combine.

 

[Sarcalogos Deus]

I would suggest to you that is not an assumption.

Scripture clearly and plainly tells us that.

Ultimately everything ends in an assumption of some sort. In order for us to accept the testimony of the scriptures we first must assume that the Bible is true, but before we do that we must assume God exists. Albeit we may call it faith, but the point still stands.

 

[Optimax]

Ultimately everything ends in an assumption of some sort. In order for us to accept the testimony of the scriptures we first must assume that the Bible is true, but before we do that we must assume God exists. Albeit we may call it faith, but the point still stands.

Another "suggestion".

There is no comparison between assuming something and faith.

Course one must understand what scriptural faith is, or the comparison between the two might appear to be similar.

 

[Standing Up]

The Assumption is part of the Gospel.

We just don't have a minimalistic view of the Faith.

Yikes. Not according to Peter, Paul, and Mary.

1 Peter 3:8 Christ also suffered when he died for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners that he might bring us safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.

v17 For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin first among God's own children. And if even we Christians must be judged, what terrible fate awaits those who have never believed God's Good News?

 

[ivebeenshown]

Yikes. Not according to Peter, Paul, and Mary.

1 Peter 3:8 Christ also suffered when he died for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners that he might bring us safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.

v17 For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin first among God's own children. And if even we Christians must be judged, what terrible fate awaits those who have never believed God's Good News?

To me, Mary's death/resurrection is an even further display from God of the beauty of eternal life and the resurrection, and ties into the gospel. Every time a person experiences a change for the better in their life because of Jesus, their life story becomes part of the gospel.

 

[Rhamiel]

Yikes. Not according to Peter, Paul, and Mary.

1 Peter 3:8 Christ also suffered when he died for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners that he might bring us safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.

v17 For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin first among God's own children. And if even we Christians must be judged, what terrible fate awaits those who have never believed God's Good News?

differant posters are doing differant definitions of "Gospel"
you Protestants are confusing

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

differant posters are doing differant definitions of "Gospel"
you Protestants are confusing

Hard to argue wit dat

 

[Optimax]

To me, Mary's death/resurrection is an even further display from God of the beauty of eternal life and the resurrection, and ties into the gospel. Every time a person experiences a change for the better in their life because of Jesus, their life story becomes part of the gospel.

Where is "Mary's death/resurrection" displayed?

Not in the Bible.

Only in departures from scripture in your "churches" traditions.

 

[bbbbbbb]

If you mean that the Four Marian Dogmas have been promulgated by popes, that is not a true statement. As I said the first Marian dogma (Ever-Virgin) has never been formally defined, yet is considered dogmatic. The second Marian dogma (Theotokos) was defined, not by a pope, but by the Council of Ephesus in 431. Only the last two (Immaculate Conception and Assumption) were defined by popes.

I did not intend to imply that popes invented or promulgated these dogmas, but that they have defined them. However, as you have clarified for me, even that is not entirely correct. Thank you. In regard to the Assumption we are in agreement that it was defined by a pope.

I don't think anyone has claimed that the only dogmatic statements in the Catholic Church are the four regarding Mary, I think you misunderstood whatever the person was saying. There are a great many more dogmatic teachings.

Dogmas in the Catholic Church can be confusing, even to many Catholics. For example, Papal Bulls were considered to be dogmatic in the past, but are not considered to be so at present. Some perceive a difference between doctrine and dogma whereas others do not. For a non-Catholic such as myself it can be quite confusing.

Dr. Ludwig Ott, author of Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, a recognized standard reference work, has come up with 252 (if I counted right) de Fide statements. Dogmas of the Catholic Church, the vast majority of which I'm sure you would agree with. But there is no definitive list.

Yes, I understand Dr. Ott's worthy attempt at defniing Catholic dogma. His problem, as well, as ours is that, indeed, there is no definitive list.

"Catechism of the Catholic Church" is the name of one book. So your statement would be better as "various Catholic Catechisms".

Quite true, although that distinction would probably be lost to most members here at CF.

Some things in the CCC are dogmatic, some things are not. It depends on the teaching in question.

Agreed.

Well, yes, I know because the Church teaches it and I trust the Church because it has shown evidence of its Divine origin and protection. So I have a greater certainty in it than I think an Orthodox, Anglican or Lutheran who also believes in the Assumption would have. But I think that because it is so widely believed, even beyond the Catholic Church, it is a strong statement to deny it, even for a non-Catholic Christian to do.

I think that one's certainty concerning any dogma or doctrine is probably relative to its perceived significance. There are many doctrines in Protestantism which Catholics find to be either irrelevant or marginal so that they do not hold a solid opinion of them and vice versa. Most Protestants do not find the Assumption to be of great significance and thus fail to have a solid belief concerning it.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The point was the question: If death is the punishment for sin does that mean that everyone who dies is guilty of sin?

If it does, then Christ is guilty of sin. That would be blasphemy. Therefore, your syllogism is false.

The death of Jesus Christ was the result of sin - not His own sin (because He was sinless) but His vicarious sacrifice for the sins of the world. As the perfect Lamb of God, He, and only He, was able to take upon Himself our sin and suffer the consequences for it - death - both physical and spiritual.

Thus, I stand with the statement of Romans 6:23 - the wages of sin is death.

 

[Standing Up]

differant posters are doing differant definitions of "Gospel"
you Protestants are confusing

Really? There's only one gospel.

Mk. 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mary is assumed into heaven? No.

The filioque is defined? No.

Then what? What's the good news?

1 Cor. 15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Only way to be saved you know.

V3-4 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Good news. That's it. Don't add to or subtract from.

 

[Rhamiel]

Where is "Mary's death/resurrection" displayed?

Not in the Bible.

Only in departures from scripture in your "churches" traditions.

ok
I trust my Churches Traditions as much as I trust the Bible

it was from the same Traditions that the cannon of the NT was decided upon

 

[ivebeenshown]

Where is "Mary's death/resurrection" displayed?

Not in the Bible.

Only in departures from scripture in your "churches" traditions.

So? Your 'bible' doesn't acknowledge Ptolemy's existence but I'm pretty sure he was a real person