The Freedom to Sin

[Crosssword]

I see a very disturbing trend among those who believe too strongly in predestination, that God controls everything, including the actions of sinners and the devil. This is obviously a lie, because the devil would then be innocent. Satan will not be forgiven, even if he were sorry, his destiny is the lake of fire. He is the absolute source of all evil. He will not be reconciled.

The Lord does not seek to control every aspect of our lives, no that is the self-righteous work of luciferians who can neither tolerate, forgive, or allow anything to exist contrary to their established empires.

If you have any doubt then consider that demons possess people, so as to control them. Angels do not. The Holy Spirit works within us only if we willingly seek him out. God does not merely know what choice we will make, he knows the outcome of every possible choice we can make. This is how predestination is actually reconciled with freedom. Those who teach that freedom is an illusion want to control you. Prophecy is fixed into all realities.

So the great trial, therefore, is to see whether or not we can learn to be good children of the lord with our freedom. Now it doesn't take a prophet to figure out that a rocket scientist is going to launch rockets. Knowledge has always been used to enslave us, and complete knowledge will be used to gain complete control. A world without choice is no world at all, it is ready to be thrown into the lake of fire.

Look at how great and how merciful and wonderful the lord is. That despite our deserving punishment, he instead died for our sins and offers mercy. The lord will do what lucifer refuses to do, pardon us from our sins.

Deep down we are good people, but we are burdened with the guilt that we are unworthy sinners. We are made perfect in Christ, in that he forgives our imperfections so long as our spirit strives to follow him and do good, but accepting salvation is a choice, and if we accept his love then we must be willing to forgive ourselves, and to love ourselves. Forgiveness is deep. It requires an understanding that we have sinned, and a repentant heart. The lord knows our hearts, and at the deepest level we yearn to have a good relationship with him.

Neverthelss the Lord shall be held blameless. For he will ultimately give us what we want, and if we perish in this world wanting to lose our freedom, or wanting to die, or wanting to be condemned then so be it. The lord cannot even look upon sin, thus it is deeply blasphemous to blame him for our mistakes. He came to die for OUR sins, not his.

 

[papaJP]

Having been used in healing and casting out of evil spirits including manifestions of satan himself I can say that God does not control man or satan. That does not mean He is not in charge of the final outcome. He has given us the ability to choose and set up the consequences of not choosing correctly. He has the keys to hell but he has given us the keys to heaven.

 

[Brother Chris]

Please do a search on the internet on the Doctrine of Election. You need to understand that a true believer will not be free to sin, and that an unbeliever is enslaved to sin. The major difference between the saved and unsaved is their relationship to sin. Jesus said, "No one can come to Me, unless the Father draws him." Why? Because the unbeliever is enslaved to sin and spiritually dead. Only God can break the power of sin and give him spiritual life. You nor I have the power to do that. So we don't get credit for our salvation. God gets all the glory! Jesus said, "You did not choose Me. I chose you."

 

[Crosssword]

Agreed.

John 6:65 "Therefore said I onto you, that no man can come onto me, except it were given onto him of my father."

John 6:66 "From that time many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him."

Fail, Fail, Fail, and they blame it all on God. That's 666 for ya. I would not have turned back.

Interesting, brother Chris, that we were thinking of the same passage at the same time. I agree with you, and I understand this, or I hope I do. I'm just trying to follow Jesus and stear clear of sin the best I can now. I know that we are all ultimately enslaved to it, except that Jesus by his grace free us.

The context of the rest of John 6:61 and on is that Jesus spoke of the holy communion. Well, that, I suppose would not have made sense until after his crucifixtion so I guess I can't say for certain I would not have turned away, if I lived back then. Jesus knew their hearts already so he dismissed them then and there.

John 6:64 "But there are you who believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."

There are those of us who have always believed, but still struggle with sin. They are blessed to know God's chastisement "for whom he loves he chastens." and offer up their broken-hearts and broken-spirits Psalm 51:17, until they be able to repent of their sins and follow Christ approrpiately.

 

[Samuel Coleridge]

I see a very disturbing trend among those who believe too strongly in predestination, that God controls everything, including the actions of sinners and the devil. This is obviously a lie, because the devil would then be innocent. Satan will not be forgiven, even if he were sorry, his destiny is the lake of fire. He is the absolute source of all evil. He will not be reconciled.

The Lord does not seek to control every aspect of our lives, no that is the self-righteous work of luciferians who can neither tolerate, forgive, or allow anything to exist contrary to their established empires.

If you have any doubt then consider that demons possess people, so as to control them. Angels do not. The Holy Spirit works within us only if we willingly seek him out. God does not merely know what choice we will make, he knows the outcome of every possible choice we can make. This is how predestination is actually reconciled with freedom. Those who teach that freedom is an illusion want to control you. Prophecy is fixed into all realities.

So the great trial, therefore, is to see whether or not we can learn to be good children of the lord with our freedom. Now it doesn't take a prophet to figure out that a rocket scientist is going to launch rockets. Knowledge has always been used to enslave us, and complete knowledge will be used to gain complete control. A world without choice is no world at all, it is ready to be thrown into the lake of fire.

Look at how great and how merciful and wonderful the lord is. That despite our deserving punishment, he instead died for our sins and offers mercy. The lord will do what lucifer refuses to do, pardon us from our sins.

Deep down we are good people, but we are burdened with the guilt that we are unworthy sinners. We are made perfect in Christ, in that he forgives our imperfections so long as our spirit strives to follow him and do good, but accepting salvation is a choice, and if we accept his love then we must be willing to forgive ourselves, and to love ourselves. Forgiveness is deep. It requires an understanding that we have sinned, and a repentant heart. The lord knows our hearts, and at the deepest level we yearn to have a good relationship with him.

Neverthelss the Lord shall be held blameless. For he will ultimately give us what we want, and if we perish in this world wanting to lose our freedom, or wanting to die, or wanting to be condemned then so be it. The lord cannot even look upon sin, thus it is deeply blasphemous to blame him for our mistakes. He came to die for OUR sins, not his.

I see a very disturbing trend among those who believe too strongly in predestination, that God controls everything, including the actions of sinners and the devil. This is obviously a lie,
[THIS IS YOUR OPINION THAT YOU CANNOT PROVE AS FACT]
because the devil would then be innocent.
[THIS IS YOUR OPINION THAT YOU CANNOT PROVE AS FACT]
Satan will not be forgiven, even if he were sorry,
[THIS IS YOUR OPINION THAT YOU CANNOT PROVE AS FACT]
his destiny is the lake of fire.
[YOU HAVE CONTRADICTED YOURSELF DESTINY IS PREDESTINED]
He is the absolute source of all evil.
[Isaiah, Chapter 45/7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.THIS DISPROVES THIS STATEMENT YOU MADE]
He will not be reconciled. The Lord does not seek to control every aspect of our lives, no that is the self-righteous work of luciferians who can neither tolerate, forgive, or allow anything to exist contrary to their established empires.
[Mark, Chapter 12/30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. THIS DISPROVES THESE STATEMENTS YOU HAVE MADE]

If you have any doubt then consider that demons possess people, so as to control them. Angels do not. The Holy Spirit works within us only if we willingly seek him out. God does not merely know what choice we will make, he knows the outcome of every possible choice we can make. This is how predestination is actually reconciled with freedom. Those who teach that freedom is an illusion want to control you. Prophecy is fixed into all realities.
So the great trial, therefore, is to see whether or not we can learn to be good children of the lord with our freedom. Now it doesn't take a prophet to figure out that a rocket scientist is going to launch rockets. Knowledge has always been used to enslave us, and complete knowledge will be used to gain complete control. A world without choice is no world at all, it is ready to be thrown into the lake of fire.
Look at how great and how merciful and wonderful the lord is. That despite our deserving punishment, he instead died for our sins and offers mercy. The lord will do what lucifer refuses to do, pardon us from our sins.
Deep down we are good people, but we are burdened with the guilt that we are unworthy sinners. We are made perfect in Christ, in that he forgives our imperfections so long as our spirit strives to follow him and do good, but accepting salvation is a choice, and if we accept his love then we must be willing to forgive ourselves, and to love ourselves. Forgiveness is deep. It requires an understanding that we have sinned, and a repentant heart. The lord knows our hearts, and at the deepest level we yearn to have a good relationship with him.
Neverthelss the Lord shall be held blameless. For he will ultimately give us what we want, and if we perish in this world wanting to lose our freedom, or wanting to die, or wanting to be condemned then so be it. The lord cannot even look upon sin, thus it is deeply blasphemous to blame him for our mistakes. He came to die for OUR sins, not his.

I pointed out some of the many errors that are in this that you posted

I did not go all the way through because I did not see no need

to. It has to many errors in the beginning to justify the end.

 

[Crosssword]

You just like to pick on me for no reason. Yes it is FACT that satan will not be forgiven for the Bible clearly tells us his place will be the lake of fire.

It's not predestination per say, it's just that God knows what we will do, he knows our hearts, and he knows the long run.

Look at all the people who left when Jesus spoke about that they can only come to him if the father permits me. They gave up and therefore failed.

 

[Crosssword]

Please do a search on the internet on the Doctrine of Election. You need to understand that a true believer will not be free to sin, and that an unbeliever is enslaved to sin. The major difference between the saved and unsaved is their relationship to sin. Jesus said, "No one can come to Me, unless the Father draws him." Why? Because the unbeliever is enslaved to sin and spiritually dead. Only God can break the power of sin and give him spiritual life. You nor I have the power to do that. So we don't get credit for our salvation. God gets all the glory! Jesus said, "You did not choose Me. I chose you."

I have been reading this. I feel now I have come all the way, and will not be enslaved to sin, but I have struggled with great tragedy and difficulty all my life. This doesn't mean that the elect will never sin, but will seek to avoid it and repent of it. I certainly don't mean to imply that we are "free to sin." Only that I believe in the existence of human freedom.

I agree with you though. Looking back I see many places where God was calling me to go deeper, but I just couldn't wake up until a month ago when I came to him completely. Now I am learning more and more, being kind to others, repenting for all my mistakes, and doing my best. What it means to be owned by jesus is do literally everything for him, not to just believe and try to live a good life as I had once thought. The Lord loves us, just as the good shepherd goes to rescue his sheap that got lost.

There are those, who for the life of them, will not open their hearts and no matter what anyone says they won't believe. I suppose they are those who God has not called at all. Yet we are to preach the gospel to everyone.

 

[Samuel Coleridge]

You just like to pick on me for no reason. Yes it is FACT that satan will not be forgiven for the Bible clearly tells us his place will be the lake of fire.

It's not predestination per say, it's just that God knows what we will do, he knows our hearts, and he knows the long run.

Look at all the people who left when Jesus spoke about that they can only come to him if the father permits me. They gave up and therefore failed.

Did you know you are responsible for what you post here.

If you cause someone to fall because you are posting your opinion(and it is wrong) or making false statements.

Not only will they suffer but you will also.

My advice to you is to not post any more of your opinions or make any more statements unless you can prove them to be correct.

 

[Samuel Coleridge]

This is not some kind of game to past the time of day.

What you say here can influence someone's life.

 

[Crosssword]

That really hurts.

Isn't discussion what a forum is for? Thinking and learning and debating?
No one is perfect when it comes to God. Are we not here to love one another?

You're right in that I need to be more careful though. In the past I was not and have made all sorts of posts. I feel hurt and horrible for my mistakes, I'm trying to make up for a lot.

Look at all the denominations we have, scriptural arguments, and sermons. Is anyone 100% right about everything? I doubt it.

 

[Samuel Coleridge]

That really hurts.

Isn't discussion what a forum is for? Thinking and learning and debating?
No one is perfect when it comes to God. Are we not here to love one another?

You're right in that I need to be more careful though. In the past I was not and have made all sorts of posts. I feel hurt and horrible for my mistakes, I'm trying to make up for a lot.

Look at all the denominations we have, scriptural arguments, and sermons. Is anyone 100% right about everything? I doubt it.

That really hurts.
(You will get over it)

Isn't discussion what a forum is for? Thinking and learning and debating?
(No this is for new Christians)

No one is perfect when it comes to God.
(I am not comparing anyone to God.)

Are we not here to love one another?
(posting opinions that are not correct and posting statements that are incorrect is not love)

You're right in that I need to be more careful though.
(I know I am right or I would not have said it to you.)

In the past I was not and have made all sorts of posts.
(That is why I am saying somthing to you about it.)

Look at all the denominations we have, scriptural arguments, and sermons. Is anyone 100% right about everything? I doubt it.
(We are not talking about anyone. We are talking about you.)

 

[Crosssword]

I. Foreknowledge and election are not inconsistent with free agency, but are founded upon it. The elect were chosen to eternal life, because God foresaw that in perfect exercise of their freedom, they could be induced to repent and embrace the Gospel.

DOCTRINE OF ELECTION by Charles G. Finney

 

[vespasia]

Isn't discussion what a forum is for? Thinking and learning and debating?
No one is perfect when it comes to God. Are we not here to love one another

Yes - this how some new to Christ learn.


Samuel [darn came close to making a name typo there]

When someone is hurt it is not easy for them to 'get over it'; that is the sort of advice that comes from those who do not spend the nights in the storms with their sleeves rolled up with hurting injured sheep.

Since when did all new Christians want to be fed baby milk? Baby eagles on the whole prefer to have a go at tearing at raw meat because milk meant for baby ox's kills them. I have yet to meet someone who has seriously looked at the occult be it RHP or LHP who has come to Christ who does not. I assure you compared to me a few years back Crosssword is doing okay for an occultist who has just turned to Christ.

 

[Samuel Coleridge]

Isn't discussion what a forum is for? Thinking and learning and debating?
No one is perfect when it comes to God. Are we not here to love one another

Yes - this how some new to Christ learn.


Samuel [darn came close to making a name typo there]

When someone is hurt it is not easy for them to 'get over it'; that is the sort of advice that comes from those who do not spend the nights in the storms with their sleeves rolled up with hurting injured sheep.

Since when did all new Christians want to be fed baby milk? Baby eagles on the whole prefer to have a go at tearing at raw meat because milk meant for baby ox's kills them. I have yet to meet someone who has seriously looked at the occult be it RHP or LHP who has come to Christ who does not. I assure you compared to me a few years back Crosssword is doing okay for an occultist who has just turned to Christ.

You are another one that post a lot of opinions that are not correct and make a lot of statements that are incorrect.

 

[Crosssword]

When someone is hurt it is not easy for them to 'get over it'; that is the sort of advice that comes from those who do not spend the nights in the storms with their sleeves rolled up with hurting injured sheep.

Since when did all new Christians want to be fed baby milk? Baby eagles on the whole prefer to have a go at tearing at raw meat because milk meant for baby ox's kills them. I have yet to meet someone who has seriously looked at the occult be it RHP or LHP who has come to Christ who does not. I assure you compared to me a few years back Crosssword is doing okay for an occultist who has just turned to Christ.

Except that I haven't JUST turned to Christ. I have believed in him all my life, but I did live without a Bible for quite a while and was more on the occult path. I have failed to fully understand my whole life, and now I am so deeply saddened by my past that I want to be God's slave, I want to do good works, and I'm having a hard time being patient because it seems the end is near.

Thank you for your compassion, and you are right. I'm studying God's word in a very serious way, looking for Meat. I believe I have found some good meat by the same author of the Doctrine of Election. Also, it is not Samuel alone that has made me sad today, it's just one of those days for me when everything seems to be against me. I just came to accept my place as inevitable and lead deeper into despair.

HOW TO CHANGE YOUR HEART by Charles G. Finney
SERMONS on IMPORTANT SUBJECTS by Charles G. Finney--Index page

 

[vespasia]

Except that I haven't JUST turned to Christ. I have believed in him all my life, but I did live without a Bible for quite a while and was more on the occult path. I have failed to fully understand my whole life, and now I am so deeply saddened by my past that I want to be God's slave, I want to do good works, and I'm having a hard time being patient because it seems the end is near.

Crosssword- RHP occultists really do believe in Christ. That is the core problem behind most western occult thinking. It is derived from a strange theology of how to live as a Christian by doing Gods will for God. I think from some of your posts that may have been where your dad got himself going round in circles and from where some of your ideas and ways of thinking have been taken from.
I do not think you did so from a premeditated deliberation and choice it was simply what you grew up with. [Hope that makes sense]
I spent well over thirty years of my life seriously on the LHP. I still retain friendships with my old associates who have coped with my choice to not use magick and simply follow Christ. It does on occasions make for some interesting discussions though.
I have spent the last ten following Christ. The first two years as a Christian were absolutely foul when I found out how little the church actually knew but how much it thought it knew about the occult. Taught me to cling on to Christ as a better alternative to the churches apparent craziness.

BTW that makes me old though I think I have a few years before I make it into the crypt-keeper category.
Sadly there is not an occult recovery folder here and for the life of me I cannot think of a more approbriate folder to suggest to you if you do wish to ask questions of me. Tis better if such are in the open so if need be the chaplains can see.



Throughout all of the Churches history there have been groups who have cried the end is near. Yes we should wait for Christ, yes we should be ready to answer Christ but we are also to share the good news of Christ, to care for the widows, orphans and aliens, we are supposed to share blessing with the poor. We do not know when that will be for that rests in Gods safe keeping and I for one cannot think of a better place than Gods hands.

IMHO a great deal of escatology like RHP thinking has not spotted its at risk of distracting people from standing in readiness whilst still being Christs servents. There are other theological models that can be far more fun and of value such as Soteriology, Christology and so on.

If your moods are on a wide bandwidth and if you do have periods when they interfer with your ability to relate to other people IRL it would be worth considering chatting with a good doctor. God can bring wholeness through using doctors, other people and Christians as well as the touch of Gods spirit.

 

[Crosssword]

You're absolutely right. My father, who sold his soul to satan, was christian when he came into my life and told me they are ranked as Right Hand Path.

He explained that the "black" mystery school applied to Satanists, Buddhists, and Christians. Why Christians? Because they die for their beliefs, they believe in eternal damnation, and they believe in God's wrath onto the unrighteous. He told me that Buddhists made the list because the first law of the Buddha is "all is sorrow." I don't know much about Buddhism so I really couldn't say.

Indeed, he seemed wiser then everyone and influenced me a great deal.

 

[Harry3142]

We Christians do have a code of conduct which we are to follow. Fortunately for us, it is a code that depends on our willingness to co-operate with the Holy Spirit rather than our 'going it alone':

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

In the first paragraph of this passage it is the Spirit, not we ourselves, who is figting against our sinful nature. It is important to note this. We could no more win a fight against our own sinful nature than a leopard could exchange his spots for the stripes of a tiger. Instead, we agree to get behind the Spirit and then follow his lead as he does battle against our sinful nature. As he proceeds ahead of us, we follow dutifully behind him.

The second paragraph shows us what that sinful nature includes. This is what the Spirit is fighting against, with our co-operation. Note how the majority of 'the acts of the sinful nature' aren't actions at all; they're the emotions which, if left unchecked, culminate in our performing sinful acts. This is why we need the Spirit to fight for us, with we ourselves staying behind him, which puts us out of his way. It's not a case of 'Do this but don't do that'; it's a complete transformation of the very core of our being.

Enter the third paragraph (the fruit of the Spirit). When we accept Christ the Holy Spirit comes to bond with us. But he doesn't come empty-handed. 'The Fruit of the Spirit', the 9 core feelings which culminate in the performance of righteous acts, are brought with him by the Spirit, to be implanted in us. It is these 9 fruit that we are to recognize as the borders beyond which our words and/or actions (and even our reactions) are not to go. They are the paramenters within which our words and/or actions can be said assuredly to emanate from the Spirit.

But should we determine through our own pride that we are entitled to converse and/or act in ways which do not have these core feelings as their root cause, then we have 'crossed the line' and are ourselves using 'the acts of the sinful nature' in order to accomplish our goals. Once we realize what we have done, we are to bury our pride and again get behind the Spirit as he continues to lead us through this life. And yes, this does apply even to our reactions to what others have said and/or done.