Violent Rhetoric in Politics

[Im_A]

The TP is corporate partisan funded astroturf playing benched players. Many of the same people active in the TP are the same people who fiercely defended the Liberal policy of Nation Building in Iraq and Afghanistan, support international State funded kidnapping, holding people indefinitely in prison without a trial, warrantless wiretapping on Americans, and the creation of ginormous new government agencies such as the TSA and DHS.

Suddenly they are focused on a smaller government? Please.

The financiers of the TP knew it could not mount a successful propaganda attack on Obushama without first creating a major buffer to deflect identifying these new TP'ers as Bush supporters. The reason is simple: Obushama has continued the same foreign policies the Bush admin put in place. It's kind of hard to bash Obushama when he's simply giving a 3rd term to the Bush Admin.

Bush supporters are quiet on Obushama on foreign policy and are not praising him even though things are much the same. Their hypocrisy is not isolated.

Obushama supporters are not nearly as critical of the dumb wars as when bush was in office. When Obushama ordered thousands of more troops overseas when he first entered office the majority of his supporters were silent but if Bush had done it they would have screamed until they choked on one of Jupiter's rings.

What in the world does this have to do with the massacre in Arizona?

 

[Keri]

Clearly, he is a recently discovered genius:

YouTube - How To: Your New Currency!

I want the new coin!

Sad...I know...but that video had me laughing.

Um yeah. Sounds like the same type of ideas that guys in the mental hospital that I worked at used to come up with. I don't think this man had an agenda other than the agenda of the voices and his schizo process of thinking.

 

[leothelioness]

Okay, I think we all know what I'm talking about. A man entered a Safeway yesterday and shot a congresswoman point-blank in the head, killed 6 people including a federal judge and a 9-year-old girl, and then injured about a dozen more. The shooter, a 22-year-old white male, was said to be have been inspired and influenced by the vitriol coming from the recent political climate. Sarah Palin's reference on her website to the congresswoman as a "target" with crosshairs on her district has drawn ire in particular, as well as the Tea Party carrying guns to political rallies (Congresswoman Giffords' in particular) during the last election. Personally I think it was just some crazy who, under the "approved" climate of violence and anger, was allowed to further his fantasy to the point of tragedy.

When are we going to stop making these metaphors and symbolic actions so these things do not happen in the future??

It has nothing to do with politics or rhetoric. It has everything to do with a lunatic who decided to act out on his delusions. When someone has a schizoid personality, ANYTHING can become a springboard for violence.

 

[Schneiderman]

I haven't read this thread- because I've already heard enough of this nonsense.

There is nothing that links the shooter to Sarah Palin or the Tea Party or the Republicans or anything else. So far all evidence suggests that he is simply a complete nutcase with no politicial affiliation. Blaming this on Sarah Palin, etc. is simply a shameful act of capitalizing on a tragedy. For the record I do not support Sarah Palin as a politician or role model and I hate the republican party.

 

[mina]

The actions of a mentally ill man don't represent the attitudes of sane people with whom he supposedly shares a few political/religious/whatever views. I'm all for politicians scaling down the violent rhetoric, but it's not to blame for an atrocity like this.

This!

 

[leothelioness]

I haven't read this thread- because I've already heard enough of this nonsense.

There is nothing that links the shooter to Sarah Palin or the Tea Party or the Republicans or anything else. So far all evidence suggests that he is simply a complete nutcase with no politicial affiliation. Blaming this on Sarah Palin, etc. is simply a shameful act of capitalizing on a tragedy. For the record I do not support Sarah Palin as a politician or role model and I hate the republican party.

Agree with all this.

 

[Tamara224]

When are we going to stop making these metaphors and symbolic actions so these things do not happen in the future??

I want to know when people are going to stop swallowing media talking points uncritically then regurgitating them for everyone else.

Seriously? A mentally ill man commits murder and the first thing the media does is go out and find a tenuous connection between what he did and what someone completely unrelated to him said?

And you don't question their motivation for bringing up Sarah Palin's name in this? Nor do you, apparently, question whether stirring the pot of contention and division by forcing politics into this topic and blaming one side is an effective means of toning down the political climate.

Can you not see the obvious hypocrisy in calling for a "cease fire" while lobbing grenades at your enemy?

Oops. Was that violent metaphor?

Please, no one go throw any actual grenades. It was a metaphor.




FTR: I'm not a Republican or a member of the Tea Party. I'm equally disgusted with all politicians and political parties. I do think Sarah Palin is kinda cool, cuz she has spunk, but she's still a politician.

 

[broken_one]

I want to know when people are going to stop swallowing media talking points uncritically then regurgitating them for everyone else.

Seriously? A mentally ill man commits murder and the first thing the media does is go out and find a tenuous connection between what he did and what someone completely unrelated to him said?

And you don't question their motivation for bringing up Sarah Palin's name in this? Nor do you, apparently, question whether stirring the pot of contention and division by forcing politics into this topic and blaming one side is an effective means of toning down the political climate.

Can you not see the obvious hypocrisy in calling for a "cease fire" while lobbing grenades at your enemy?

Oops. Was that violent metaphor?

Please, no one go throw any actual grenades. It was a metaphor.




FTR: I'm not a Republican or a member of the Tea Party. I'm equally disgusted with all politicians and political parties. I do think Sarah Palin is kinda cool, cuz she has spunk, but she's still a politician.

I made this thread well before we knew all the facts....at the time, things were different. I'm actually really glad that the shooter was not politically motivated: it's one of the few blessings we can glean from this.

There is no way we could discuss this topic and not discuss politics. If I've "infused" it into the discussion, I think it has more to do with again the political climate rather than a reflection on myself. Congress cannot even go about its business now without being interrupted by furious commentators in the gallery. I'm definitely as polarized as everyone else...definitely. There are also definitely more polarized people than I am, and I've met them through this thread.

However in this thread, I have attempted to hide any sort of bias by simply reporting what the news was saying. By this news, I mean Fox News. Yes, I do watch it. If Fox News is bringing up Sarah Palin, then Sarah Palin must be somewhat important to talk about. It's nice to say, days out from when the thread was made, talk about how wrong people thought as if it was some sort of Socialist scheme or something, but the fact was at the time we did not know much about the suspect other than he was a young, white male. Some of the "I told you so-s" are definitely a bit correct, but there seems to be a real vengeance by the Right to jump at those who jumped at them, instead of continuing the "we don't know him....he was just deranged" sort of thinking that was the original stance of the ideology on this issue.

So maybe the Sheriff was right. What are we going to do about politics? I honestly have no idea. I'll probably just go back toward grooming and campaigning for Democratic candidates, like I have now for almost 4 years...it's kind of a side-job. There's hardly any sort of opposition, though. Maybe one day we'll all finally just split up and be done with it.

PS. The Tea Party isn't all bad....balanced budgets, government accountability, governments free of special interests, are good things. Some of the other stuff though....not so much. This isn't the thread for that, though.

 

[Tamara224]

I made this thread well before we knew all the facts....at the time, things were different. I'm actually really glad that the shooter was not politically motivated: it's one of the few blessings we can glean from this.

Yeah, but that's just proof that you swallowed and regurgitated media talking points uncritically.

Before the facts are in, conclusions got jumped to.

You didn't stop to question it before you posted it. You didn't wonder why Sarah Palin was being drug into it without the facts. You didn't reserve judgment until you knew more.

There is no way we could discuss this topic and not discuss politics.

Who said anything about not discussing politics at all? Sure, it's tangentially related because the man targeted a congresswoman.

But it is completely possible to discuss the topic without trying to blame your political adversaries.

If I've "infused" it into the discussion, I think it has more to do with again the political climate rather than a reflection on myself.

My Baloney has a first name....

You are not a robot or a puppet. You make your own choices. Please do not blame the "political climate" for your choice to write and post this thread.

Congress cannot even go about its business now without being interrupted by furious commentators in the gallery. I'm definitely as polarized as everyone else...definitely. There are also definitely more polarized people than I am, and I've met them through this thread.

And yet you choose to continue divisive and contentious tactics. I know that you are not the only one doing it.

But it is hypocritical to call for others to stop doing a thing in which you are actively engaged.

However in this thread, I have attempted to hide any sort of bias by simply reporting what the news was saying. By this news, I mean Fox News. Yes, I do watch it. If Fox News is bringing up Sarah Palin, then Sarah Palin must be somewhat important to talk about.

The news is not unbiased. Not Fox, not CNN, not MSNBC, not the BBC, not NPR.

News companies make money off of controversy, polarization, divisiveness, vitriol and "violent rhetoric."

Of all the sources to which you should be applying critical thinking skills, the news media is the first. If you question anyone, question them. Always remember that what they choose to report and how they choose to report it is biased.

They drag Sarah Palin's name into things because they've learned that people either hate or love her enough that they tune in every time she's mentioned. Her name makes them money.

It's nice to say, days out from when the thread was made, talk about how wrong people thought as if it was some sort of Socialist scheme or something, but the fact was at the time we did not know much about the suspect other than he was a young, white male. Some of the "I told you so-s" are definitely a bit correct, but there seems to be a real vengeance by the Right to jump at those who jumped at them, instead of continuing the "we don't know him....he was just deranged" sort of thinking that was the original stance of the ideology on this issue.

You didn't know much about the suspect, but that didn't stop you from spreading the rumors about your political opponents.

But now those political opponents are in the wrong for pointing out that you were wrong?



Do yourself a favor, and learn something. Quit with the constant excuses and passing the blame to others and let experience teach you something.

Learn how to think critically.

So maybe the Sheriff was right. What are we going to do about politics? I honestly have no idea.

Well, we should start with ourselves. Instead of asking, demanding and expecting everyone else to behave better, we should ask, demand and expect ourselves to.

If you don't like it when others employ dishonest, biased and vitriolic tactics in politics, then you should start by not doing those things.

I'll probably just go back toward grooming and campaigning for Democratic candidates, like I have now for almost 4 years...it's kind of a side-job. There's hardly any sort of opposition, though. Maybe one day we'll all finally just split up and be done with it.

You know why political candidates recruit 16 year olds for those job? Lots of zeal, not much wisdom.

 

[Stravinsk]

Sean, methinks Tamara likes you. This seems to be how she "flirts" with prospective mates. Not that some of her points are not valid, intelligently made and articulate - but I suspect that for you to prove worthy - you must counterpoint effectively and leave her in the dust. Only then will she submit to you(kicking and screaming).

 

[Tamara224]

Sean, methinks Tamara likes you. This seems to be how she "flirts" with prospective mates. Not that some of her points are not valid, intelligently made and articulate - but I suspect that for you to prove worthy - you must counterpoint effectively and leave her in the dust. Only then will she submit to you(kicking and screaming).

Is this meant to be a joke? I don't appreciate it.

I would appreciate it if you could treat me with respect as a human being. The fact that I'm a woman should have no bearing on this discussion. I do not appreciate your sexist marginalizing of me or my comments.

 

[Stravinsk]

Is this meant to be a joke? I don't appreciate it.

I would appreciate it if you could treat me with respect as a human being. The fact that I'm a woman should have no bearing on this discussion. I do not appreciate your sexist marginalizing of me or my comments.

No joke, Tams. Just an observation I found amusing. Interesting how you've turned it into a "sexist" and "women's respect" issue, when it was clearly a more personal observation. I guess such tactics come with the territory of your profession. Maybe they work in the courtroom, but with a mate - you're just going to turn him off by ego feeding at his expense.

For what it's worth.

 

[Tamara224]

No joke, Tams. Just an observation I found amusing. Interesting how you've turned it into a "sexist" and "women's respect" issue, when it was clearly a more personal observation. I guess such tactics come with the territory of your profession. Maybe they work in the courtroom, but with a mate - you're just going to turn him off by ego feeding at his expense.

For what it's worth.

Fine, whatever, Strav. I'm sure the suggestion that I should or would ever "submit" to a 21 year old has nothing to do with the fact that you think women should submit to men. I'm sure the fact that accusing me of flirting in the first place has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a woman speaking to a man. I'm sure you would have made the same comment if it had been a man discussing/arguing/debating with a man. /sarcasm

But whatever.

Please give me respect as a human being and do not make "personal" observations that are demeaning to me, personally. On whatever grounds they may be based.

It's not appreciated. This thread is not about me, personally. And observations about me, personally, are both inappropriate and rude.

 

[Stravinsk]

I'm not going to argue with you Tams! Yes, it's true I was poking a bit of fun at you...but also making a serious observation in doing so.


http://www.christianforums.com/t7525860-10/#post56498592

 

[Tamara224]

I'm not going to argue with you Tams! Yes, it's true I was poking a bit of fun at you...but also making a serious observation in doing so.

It's not "poking fun" when it's insulting, Strav.

If you were really doing it in a spirit of "fun" you would not persist after I've made it clear that I do not find it funny.

Please stop. I don't know where you got it in your head that every time I argue with someone it's because I like him. But that's absurd.

Let me make myself clear. I am not flirting with Broken. And I'm not flirting with you. I do not find this funny, witty, or flirtatious. I find your words offensive, demeaning and sexist.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7525860-10/#post56498592

 

[Stravinsk]

I guess the "rolls eyes" smilie at my linked post says it all for me. All I want to say at this point is: Good luck - and I mean that in all sincerity.

 

[broken_one]

Sean, methinks Tamara likes you. This seems to be how she "flirts" with prospective mates. Not that some of her points are not valid, intelligently made and articulate - but I suspect that for you to prove worthy - you must counterpoint effectively and leave her in the dust. Only then will she submit to you(kicking and screaming).

LOL. This page has actually made me chuckle a bit. I get what Strav is talking about, and I tip my hat to ye.

Originally, I was about to create some long response that was going to be rather logical, poignant, and in the end rather brash (and people wonder why I want to get into law). There was going to be one big long song-and-dance about why standing by decisions that were made at the time can usually only be judged by the time it was made, buuuuuuut I've realized that it's not worth it. I said what I wanted to say, I realize that this is turning into an argument over how "uninformed" I was (I was informed sufficiently, or better than most, at the time), and I honestly don't care. My original point still stands, because it is a call for morality and not a nitpicking of the base information.

Sometimes refusing to argue is a good thing. I'm not admitting defeat, I'm not attempting to go "I don't want to talk about it anymore". If anything I lost face and yet I am still being excoriated for it, and I don't need to be subjected to further abuse on a mistake which I have already admitted I made and that I have stated my regret for doing so.

 

[Neve]

I haven't read this thread- because I've already heard enough of this nonsense.

There is nothing that links the shooter to Sarah Palin or the Tea Party or the Republicans or anything else. So far all evidence suggests that he is simply a complete nutcase with no politicial affiliation. Blaming this on Sarah Palin, etc. is simply a shameful act of capitalizing on a tragedy. For the record I do not support Sarah Palin as a politician or role model and I hate the republican party.

I agree. The bottom line is that this person is mentally ill and needs to be locked up in a pysch ward for the rest of his life. I'm not a Republican either, but to blame this on a memo or the Tea Party is silly. First of all, Representative Gabrielle Giffords is NOT the FIRST the Jewish woman in Congress! I know California Senators Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer, both of the Jewish faith, have been serving in office for several decades. Whoever wrote that memo is an idiot or didn't do their homework.
Extremist Radical, Or Just A Nut? | The Jewish Week

 

[Im_A]

Well Tamara, I feel for ya. If people would predict that I have a crush based on my reaction, I guess I'm a bisexual flirt because I'm pretty predictable on these boards.

So ladies and fellas look out...Ladies you would thus be getting some bisexual love and fellas you'd be getting some homosexual love.

 

[Im_A]

LOL. This page has actually made me chuckle a bit. I get what Strav is talking about, and I tip my hat to ye.

Originally, I was about to create some long response that was going to be rather logical, poignant, and in the end rather brash (and people wonder why I want to get into law). There was going to be one big long song-and-dance about why standing by decisions that were made at the time can usually only be judged by the time it was made, buuuuuuut I've realized that it's not worth it. I said what I wanted to say, I realize that this is turning into an argument over how "uninformed" I was (I was informed sufficiently, or better than most, at the time), and I honestly don't care. My original point still stands, because it is a call for morality and not a nitpicking of the base information.

Sometimes refusing to argue is a good thing. I'm not admitting defeat, I'm not attempting to go "I don't want to talk about it anymore". If anything I lost face and yet I am still being excoriated for it, and I don't need to be subjected to further abuse on a mistake which I have already admitted I made and that I have stated my regret for doing so.

I wouldn't let your head get too big...she wasn't flirting with you. She was disagreeing with you. Simple observation skills works here.