Are non-believers fools?

[lesliedellow]

Since he is a theist as well as a historian of science and a cosmologist, Gingerich has been asked several times to comment on matters concerning the interplay between science and faith.

One of these, Intelligent design, he calls an issue with “immense incomprehension from both the friends and foes.” On the one hand, he says that it is unfortunate that there seems to be a knee-jerk reaction among its critics that ID is simply Young Earth creationism in disguise. On the other hand, he says that, while ID supporters make a good case for a coherent understanding of the nature of the cosmos,

You keep posting this stuff, so I suppose you have somehow jumped to the conclusion that I am an IDer, which I'm not.

 

[blackstrawberry]

"The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good."
Psalms 14:1

This verse seems very clear to me, and yet I know there are many non-believers who seem to be very intelligent and morally righteous. How can these two conflicting ideas be reconciled?

To God, all of us are equal.

Why?

When pitted against God's omnipotence, we humans are nothing but ants in comparison. Do humans, in general, pick out ants that look attractive from those that do not? I don't think so.

By using the same logic, he is free and right to refer to us in any form and words. Humans, on the other hand, aren't such significant beings. Thus, we are wrong to refer to non-believers as "fools." Yes. My point here is that we should use our common sense to the point where we would be able to separate what only God is allowed to say from what God wants us to believe.

 

[awakened777]

I believe that people know there is a God, they just hate him and refuse to submit to his laws.

 

[Angelsword777]

A lot of people confuse "wisdom" with "knowledge". I could be the dumbest man on earth, but I would still have the ability to be wise.

Extremely true...

But wouldn't it be better to say"wisdom" with "intellegence", I would put "wisdom" as being more onto the knowledge side...right?

 

[solarwave]

I believe that people know there is a God, they just hate him and refuse to submit to his laws.

It would be nice if this were true, but it doesn't seem at all obvious that God is real. Maybe I am wrong though.

 

[awakened777]

It would be nice if this were true, but it doesn't seem at all obvious that God is real. Maybe I am wrong though.

I think that its pretty obvious that there is a God.

 

[TheParticlePerson]

I think that its pretty obvious that there is a God.

Not to me, not to millions of other people.

 

[he-man]

Not to me, not to millions of other people.

Theology (Christians Only) > Theology > Christian Apologetics
The Topic of this discussion is (Christians Only) Christian to Christian!

 

[TheParticlePerson]

I don't think it's obvious to a lot of Christians either.

 

[Dionysiou]

I don't think it's obvious to a lot of Christians either.

Im a christian and it's not obvious. Christians have faith, not proof. You can convince yourself to believe in just about anything if it's a benefit to you. Christians who prance around like they are sure of themselves are just really hopeful and do their best on a daily basis to reaffirm the belief. Praying, reading bible, talking with other christians only makes the belief more real. The notion of a loving God who cares about every individual person is very appealing furthermore when He is offering you eternal life in heaven. Humans are very delicate creatures and their emotions or how they are feeling can be changed and controlled with just an idea.

 

[TheParticlePerson]

I think Mark Twain said it best: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."

 

[talitha]

Wow, that is not true.
For example - Thursday my husband took a boy along with his single mom to another town for the boy's ear to be operated on (we are missionaries). I have complete faith in him to do this kind of thing without fooling around. My faith in him is based on RELATIONSHIP. I know him, and I know his love for me, well enough to know that he wouldn't do such a thing. My faith in my husband is not "believing what I know isn't so" - there are grounds for my faith. It's the same thing with God. I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I've committed unto him (being my life and my hope).

 

[TheParticlePerson]

I think the kind of faith Twain was referring to is the kind that isn't justified by any evidence, or "blind faith". You have faith in your husband because presumably he has always been loyal to you and it makes sense to think that he would continue to be.

 

[he-man]

I think the kind of faith Twain was referring to is the kind that isn't justified by any evidence, or "blind faith". You have faith in your husband because presumably he has always been loyal to you and it makes sense to think that he would continue to be.

That is man's wisdom, not God's.
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Lu 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[talitha]

Faith is always based on something. Groundless faith is often proved to be simply foolishness. Faith in God is based on his faithfulness and on relationship.

 

[he-man]

Faith is always based on something. Groundless faith is often proved to be simply foolishness. Faith in God is based on his faithfulness and on relationship.

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

 

[play_smom]

I think it must be taken into account that the verse in question is found in the book of psalms. The book of psalms is a collection of songs or poems or praises that people wrote or sang to god, are they not? So they are not the word of god, they are the word of man. because of this I find no reason for anyone, even a christian, to base their opinion about nonbelievers on this verse. It's silly. THe verse is just the opinion of another person and has little to do with god's opinion on the matter, if he exists.

 

[talitha]

aww, play smom - The Psalms are definitely divinely inspired. They have the fingerprints of God all over them.

blessings
tal

 

[play_smom]

You misunderstand me. I said nothing about whether or not the verse was divinely inspired. However even Christians recognize that there is a dfference between a verse that says "So-and-so did ____" and "God told so-and-so _____" One is man-made (possibly inspired) and the other is claimed to be the word of god himself.

My point is that even if a person believes in god, wouldn't the actual "word of god" be followed, not the (possibly inspired) word of man?

Also, where is the proof that the psalms are divinely inspired? I could write a beautiful poem about god right now, but it would not be divinely inspired.

 

[Hamish MacWolf]

Attn: TheParticlePerson. May I quickly apologise on behalf on the Christians who have demonstrated a distinct lack of grace and simply thrown nay-saying and belligerence at you for daring to ask some serious, deep and probing questions. That kind of behaviour is one of the biggest reasons atheists and agnostics think Christians are stupid.

Sorry about that.

Regarding the original verse, and its claim that (paraphrasing), to say there is no God is to be a fool, actually depends on an underlying question - is there a God?

If there is, in fact, a God, and on top of that, He is actually the God that the verse's Jewish author believed Him to be, then yes, to say he does not exist would be very foolish indeed. It would be akin to someone saying, "I'm not going to vote for Barack Obama, because Barack Obama doesn't exist." Hence, a fool.

But that conclusion can only be arrived at once you can prove the existence of God. Which we can't. In lieu, the best we can say is "I believe." And then to say of that list of notable, and by-and-large, brilliant thinkers you listed, "I believe that on the issue of the existence of God, these highly intelligent people have reached a foolish conclusion."

They're not stupid people. Stupidity is separate from foolishness, and even foolishness is subjective, based on your belief for what qualifies as wisdom. Really, what you do get from that verse is a perspective into the beliefs of the author, and those who subscribe to the author's views.

PS - Sorry again for the sub-par behaviour of some others.