To Catch A Predator Is Wrong

[Andrew Ryan]

I don't think there is anything wrong about this at all. He chose to go to house, take of his clothes in hopes to ravish a 14 year old girl. So he has to endure some 'snarky' (hilarious, imo) comments before he goes to jail. Shouldn't have tried to have sex with a minor, he made his bed, now lie in it, really, he's getting of easy compared to what some people, both future fellow inmates and people among the citizenry, would want to do to him. Boohoo, he might get his feelings hurt, perhaps this will teach him a lesson. Same could be said for any guy caught on this show.

 

[Macx]

Do unto others.

Yeah, I am committed to that. If I feel an uncontrollable urge to bed a minor, I will off myself before it happens. I am absolutely committed to not becoming what made me what I am. In the unlikely event I fail in that resolve, I'd sign on for a little worse than the punishment I described as fitting . . . flog me with a cat 'o 9 til I wish I was dead and take my eyes with hot irons before sitting me in that boat, then add all I have said before & sign me up for some snarky comments from the Dateline dude too.

I am not a good person, but there is one way at least, in which I am not bad.

 

[JACKSONVILLE4]

There are laws against cruel and unusual punishment (actually just one really relevant law in the 8th amendment) and it is true that the State is prohibited from enacting cruel and unusual punishments. The difference is, "TCAP" is acting before conviction (it isn't punishment because you are innocent until proven guilty) and not as an agent of the State (not bound under the 8th amendment).

To frame it a different way, if a crime victim whacks their attacker with her cane as the police are taking the criminal away, the police have not violated the 8th amendment, but the victim must be charged appropriately with some sort of assault or battery. Getting whacked by a cane wasn't part of a prescribed punishment. There is no law against setting up or conscenting to have set up surveilance devices in one's home. The actions by Dateline, though cruel (and appropriate) are all within the realm of lawful conduct by private citizens on private property with the consent of the property owner. There is no violation of the law, as the criminal is being aprehended & Dateline probably has a handful of well paid lawyers to make sure that line isn't crossed.

I agree!

 

[ToddNotTodd]

You think a 31 guy having sex with a 14 year old girl is what.. normal? cool? Are you serious??????

It's got plenty of historical precedence...

 

[Mystman]

It's got plenty of historical precedence...

Wasn't Mary estimated to be ~14 when God impregnated her? And He was infinitely old. Yuck.

Good idea for a new TCAP episode: First you see a chatlog of Gabriel announcing God's intention to impregnate a user called Mary-18, and "she" gives her consent. That night, God enters the home that Mary and Joseph where supposed to live in.. but instead, Chris Hansen steps out with "why don't You take a seat over there.."

 

[keith99]

May some of the posters on this have the 'good' fortune to pickup the next Traci Lords.

 

[shinbits]

Wasn't Mary estimated to be ~14 when God impregnated her? And He was infinitely old. Yuck.

Good idea for a new TCAP episode: First you see a chatlog of Gabriel announcing God's intention to impregnate a user called Mary-18, and "she" gives her consent. That night, God enters the home that Mary and Joseph where supposed to live in.. but instead, Chris Hansen steps out with "why don't You take a seat over there.."

hahahaha

 

[A Is A]

You give god way too much credit. Mary never gave consent.

 

[Macx]

Luke 1:

46And Mary said, `My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47And my spirit was glad on God my Saviour,
48Because He looked on the lowliness of His maid-servant, For, lo, henceforth call me happy shall all the generations,
49For He who is mighty did to me great things, And holy [is] His name,
50And His kindness [is] to generations of generations, To those fearing Him,
51He did powerfully with His arm, He scattered abroad the proud in the thought of their heart,
52He brought down the mighty from thrones, And He exalted the lowly,
53The hungry He did fill with good, And the rich He sent away empty,
54He received again Israel His servant, To remember kindness, 55As He spake unto our fathers, To Abraham and to his seed -- to the age.'

She sounds pretty unwilling. . . . not.

Of course that isn't the point.

 

[shinbits]

Luke 1:31:​

"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus."​

Mary may have been happy about it afterward, but God certainly didn't ask her permission before impregnating her. The angel just let her know what God already did.​

 

[William_0]

You follow up an appeal to popularity with a red herring. This isn't about democracy. It's about how predators are treated by NBC.

They are also addressed through religious institutions. Like the church. Or Jesus Himself.


Society also says it is acceptable to do many other things that we as Christians should be against, like affairs and premarital sex. Why should we, as Christians, pay attention to what society thinks on issues of how to treat other people?


This thread isn't about punishments. Red herring.


This isn't about punishment. This is about how a show publicly treats a certain class of criminal and if it is wrong.

Public shaming is a form of punishment, punishment is carried out by society, our society is democratic. Do us a favor and educate yourself before you speak.

There are plenty of laws against religious doctrine, and due to the legitimacy of our state, and your tacit consent to obey its laws, you are bound by the legal system to follow its rule. By residing in our state's jurisdiction, you are consenting to obey, and if you do not, you deserve to receive punishment for it. [Read the Second Treatise of Government]

And it would kind of be hypocritical for the church to address the problems of sex-criminals, eh?

 

[Macx]

Luke 1:31:​

"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus."​

Mary may have been happy about it afterward, but God certainly didn't ask her permission before impregnating her. The angel just let her know what God already did.​

Um, no. The angel goes on with the declaration and then:

34And Mary said unto the messenger, `How shall this be, seeing a husband I do not know?'

35And the messenger answering said to her, `The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God;
36and lo, Elisabeth, thy kinswoman, she also hath conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month to her who was called barren;
37because nothing shall be impossible with God.' 38And Mary said, `Lo, the maid-servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to thy saying,' and the messenger went away from her.

Then she goes and visits the old previously barren cousin & sometime thereafter, after the census was ordered, Mary turns up, knocked up. I realize it must be entertaining to paint God as a rapist, but. . . it isn't worth responding further.

 

[Caitlin.ann]

Wasn't Mary estimated to be ~14 when God impregnated her? And He was infinitely old. Yuck.

Good idea for a new TCAP episode: First you see a chatlog of Gabriel announcing God's intention to impregnate a user called Mary-18, and "she" gives her consent. That night, God enters the home that Mary and Joseph where supposed to live in.. but instead, Chris Hansen steps out with "why don't You take a seat over there.."

Lol. Besides the fact that it was societally acceptable back then, I still see the humor. That bears the question, if society says adults having their way with 14 year olds is ok, then is it, or is society wrong?

 

[shinbits]

Um, no. The angel goes on with the declaration and then:



Then she goes and visits the old previously barren cousin & sometime thereafter, after the census was ordered, Mary turns up, knocked up. I realize it must be entertaining to paint God as a rapist, but. . . it isn't worth responding further.

Okay. So the angel told Mary what God was going to do, not what God already did. Either way, no one asked Mary for her permission.

 

[EvangelicalChristian]

The guys Dateline catches as a result of this show are criminals, who need should be punished as criminals. Thanks to them, many potential child molesters are off the streets.

But have you seen what they do just before sending them off to jail?

I Just saw one episode, where a man about 31 years old with glasses stripped naked, while hearing a voice of someone he believed to be a 14 year old girl in another room. When he's totally naked, Chris Hansen comes out, and proceeds to strip every last shred of dignity this man has, by asking consending questions with no purpose other than to further humiliate him:

Hansen: "Were you planning to have sex with a 14 year old?"
Man: "Uh, no I wasn't really gonna go all the way."
Hansen: "Oh come on! You're naked!"

Well Chris, if it's soooo obvious what he's doing, why put him through all this? Why all the snarky coments?

After what seems to be about ten minutes of useless obvious questions, he lets him know he's on national T.V., and a camera crew comes out. Now he's naked (just a towel) in a room full of people. Chris Hansen further destroys all shred of his self-respect by asking him if he has "anything to say" to millions of people who will now know what he's doing. This serves no purpose other than a sadistic enjoyment of watching him squirm. Put on the spot, he of course apologizes.

And to top it all off, Chris Hansen tells the guy he's free to go, and "keep the towel" just to stomp on his humanity one last time. What the guy doesn't know, is that he's not actually "free to go", there are cops outside in camoflage ready to put him to the ground, cuff him, and take him to jail. They don't show it, but I just know Chris Hansen is laughing his head off like "We said he was "free", let's see the look on his face when he realizes we just said that to screw with him".

Aren't there laws against "cruel and unusual punishment" for a reason? Aren't these laws in place because we recognize that criminals are still human beings? (Yes; Chris Hansen isn't offically a law enforcement official, so I guess it's okay, huh?)

Do you think this is right to do? I for one don't. Yes, what these men do is illegal, and immoral; but that's only depending on which country you live in, or in the U.S., what state you live in.

It's wrong to treat men who think they're going to have consentual sex with a teenager, who depending on the country (or state) would be legal to have sex with.

The ages used are always below the age of consent in the state they are filming in.

Tom

 

[EvangelicalChristian]

Found it! This is near where I grew up. And it was her myspace page, not an ID that gave the wrong age, and apparently they met on the street, not in a bar. The rest of the story is pretty straight though.

Man Sentenced To Prison After Girl's MySpace Page Lies About Age - News Story - WFTV Orlando

A Myspace page is hardly a reasonable proof of age. Now should she possess a realistic looking "fake" drivers license then perhaps this should be a reasonable defense in a court but a myspace page? Doesn't really cut the "due dilligence" requirement when making an affirmative defense.

 

[EvangelicalChristian]

I'm not necessarily sure I'd use the term mentally ill, moreso because of the back lash that using that term on public forums seems to bring. But to be sure, something is definitely wrong with many of these people, and I would like to say that most of it is mental, whether from Chemical processess in the brain, or past trauma that compels them to prey on adolescents and children. That is why I would rather treat them as someone who is ill, than someone who is 100% aware of what they are doing is wrong. Or maybe I just want to believe they're ill, who knows. But they seem too pathetic and too desperate (the guys on TCAP) to not have more issues than simply being attracted to older adolescents. As opposed to many pedophiles, they actually act on their urges.

I appreciate your reasonable response and having worked with sexual abusers pretty closely I agree with you that among those who act upon their urges to have sex with those under the age of consent many do have mental or behavioral issues. But I assure you some are not mentally ill, some are simply so selfish that fulfilling their own desires is far more important than the damage they may cause in doing so. Most who fall into this category believe themselves too smart to be caught. The fact that they were spending time with me proved them wrong on that point.

Of those who are truly mentally ill some do react well to treatment, others do not and sadly should be housed humanely away from children the rest of their lives.

Those who are not mentally ill unfortunately will continue to offend until they finally are sentenced to life in prison.

Tom

 

[keith99]

Lol. Besides the fact that it was societally acceptable back then, I still see the humor. That bears the question, if society says adults having their way with 14 year olds is ok, then is it, or is society wrong?

Why all societies at all times should be judged by even the most arbitrary of the decisions of our society of course!

 

[shinbits]

A Myspace page is hardly a reasonable proof of age. Now should she possess a realistic looking "fake" drivers license then perhaps this should be a reasonable defense in a court but a myspace page? Doesn't really cut the "due dilligence" requirement when making an affirmative defense.

Have you asked for the driver's licences of everyone you've dated?

 

[Gishin]

Exactly. She looked old enough, she said she was old enough, he had reason to believe she was old enough, and she has no intention of stopping and her parents won't control her. Who's the victim and who's the predator?

It reminds me of a Chappelle Show skit where he had lawyers go over a contract between two people before they would get on with relations.