gearedtogo
Servant
@357magnum
Where do we draw the line? My whole focus and the major point of my argument had to do with transgressions of the Law according to Scripture and the hypocrisy surrounding how we conduct our lives in accordance to Scripture by allowing for practices that are contrary to what has been written.
For those who want to put themselves under the Law, they make the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross in vain. They should also be aware that there are over 600 laws, and they must obey all of them if they want to be under the Law.
Matthew 22:36-40 KJV Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practises and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:17-19, NIV).
Jesus spoke clearly and to the point. God's law has not been abolished, and, according to Christ's own words, anyone who teaches so is directly contradicting Him. It states that the law is still in effect until heaven and earth disappear which last time I checked, we are still here.
Paul taught, "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous . . ." (Romans 2:13, NIV).
Paul markedly told those judging him that He had continued to use the Old Testament Scriptures as the authority for his beliefs: ". . . I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets" (Acts 24:13-14).
Accusations then or now that Paul taught against the law of God are fallacious. Even of his preaching to the gentiles, He said, "I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God ..." (Romans 15:18, NIV). Paul kept the commandments of God. He taught them to Jews and gentiles alike.
The apostle John clearly defines sin, telling us that "sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, KJV).
Like Paul, John describes the saints as "those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). He also gives us this sobering warning: "He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:4).
So which one is it? It would seem that our Scripture directly contradicts each other.
The purpose of Christ’s atoning work was to restore man to a position of covenant keeping
instead of covenant-breaking, to enable man to keep the law by freeing man
“from the law of sin and death” (Rom 8:2) “that the righteousness of the law might be
fulfilled in us” (Rom 8:4). Man is restored to a position of law-keeping. The law thus has a
position of centrality in man’s indictment (as a sentence of death against man the sinner),
in man’s redemption (in that Christ died, Who although the perfect law keeper as the new
Adam, died as man’s substitute), and in man’s sanctification (in that man grows in grace
as he grows in law-keeping, for the law is the way of sanctification).
Regardless of this pointless bickering about whether or not we as Christian are still under the Law, Christ did affirm that we are to keep the 10 Commandments. The original question of this thread was whether or not it was okay for Christians to celebrate Christmas and it was already brought up in previous posts that this was a holiday rooted in paganism.
The Second Commandment goes to the heart of our relationship with our Creator. What is the proper way to worship the only true God?
“You shall not make unto you any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 You shall not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my Commandments.” Exodus 20:4-6
A physical image, painting or picture of a deity has neither life nor power. Even if we knew exactly what God looks like, which we do not know, we could not design icons that would portray the many facets of His character revealed to us through His Word. At some times God acts with gentleness and mercy and at others with great wrath and power. He does not want us to perceive Him as frozen in one trait of personality or character to the exclusion of His many other traits. He asks that we read about Him, learn what He is like and emulate Him.
After writing the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone, God explained why He wanted no images used in worship of Him. “Take you therefore good heed unto yourselves; for you saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spoke unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: 16 Lest you corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, … 19 And lest you lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when you seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD your God has divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. 20 But the LORD has taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as you are this day.” Deuteronomy 4:15-20
God wanted the Israelites to remember that they were to worship the living God, not an idol, and always to direct their worship toward their Creator and never toward objects within His creation. He commanded them, “Take heed unto yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD your God has forbidden you.” Deuteronomy 4:23. Depictions of deities engraved and painted on walls, pottery and other articles are included among the forbidden and idolatrous objects (Numbers 33:52)
If the Christmas Tree is a pagan artifact and all of the myth and lore that is associated with it represent meaning attributed to a false god, then why as a Christian do you condone it? That is the crux of the matter.
Is there a command anywhere in the Holy Scriptures that a human should cut a tree out of the forest, set it up in one's home at the time of the Winter Solstice, deck it with trinkets and various decorations, and then place a star on its topmost part to show an association of the tree with the signs of the heavens?
The authorities in Post-Reformation England condemned the celebration of Christmas altogether as being a pagan institution (without the slightest warrant in the Bible) and made laws forbidding it to be celebrated. Anyone found cooking a Christmas ham had their dinner taken away and they themselves were arrested. Similar laws were put into effect in the American colonies. In Massachusetts, the following law was passed in 1659 and was enforced on the people for 22 years before it was finally repealed."Whosoever shall be found observing Christmas, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, every such person shall pay as a fine five shillings to the county." The reason that the pilgrims were forbidding the celebration of Christmas (and the festivities that went with it) was because they were wise enough to realize that the Bible did not condone such customs of the early heathen that had nothing to do with the teachings of Christianity. In fact, they had many scriptures that made it quite clear that God was not pleased with such idolatrous celebrations. One such command was found in Jeremiah 10:2,3
"Hear you the word which the Lord speaks unto you, 0 house of Israel. Thus says the Lord. Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of the heaven; for the nations are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain.
The pagan customs of the Gentile peoples were held in contempt by the people of God who lived in the biblical periods. This has not been the case, however, in modern times. It is usually reckoned by modern Christian authorities that the many customs of our early pagan forefathers can be innocent forms of frivolity and celebration and that God in no way condemns such practices. The vast majority of church leaders of the various denominations not only condone the Christmas and Easter celebrations that they know come directly from pagan religious ceremonies, but they actively encourage the use of them in the churches themselves and in the homes of the people. Among such customs is the setting up of Christmas trees. This custom is nothing more than a retention of pagan "tree worship" (which anthropologists and historians have for centuries informed the general public), but the setting up of Christmas trees continues unabated in multitudes of Christian churches around the world.
Jeremiah 10:1-5 and 8,9.
Hear you the word which the Lord speaks unto you, O house of Israel. Thus says the Lord. Learn not the way of the heathen and be not dismayed at the signs of the heaven; for the nations are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain. For one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it [the tree] with silver and with gold. They fasten it [the tree] with nails and with hammers that it move not. They [such trees] are upright as the palm tree, but speak not. The tree [KJV: stock] is a doctrine of vanities. Silver is spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder. Blue and purple is their clothing. They [the trees] are all the work of cunning men."
When Jeremiah said "one cuts a tree out of the forest," the word for "tree" is a Hebrew word that ordinarily means a living tree that grows in the ground. The "trees" in the Garden of Eden, including that of the knowledge of good and evil as well as the tree of life, were indicated as being ordinary "trees" by the use of this word. True, it can sometimes means a block of wood, but when Jeremiah said to cut a tree "from the forest," a forest is made up of numerous trees usually over a vast region of land. A forest is made up of many trees, not many "blocks of wood" or "pieces of timber." The immediate context of Jeremiah shows he is really talking about a tree that one can cut down and that it [the tree] can be decked or adorned with gold or silver and/or blue or purple cloths.
Such "tree worship" was well known in the time of Jeremiah and later. The oak was universally held in esteem. In mountainous areas cedars and firs were worshiped. In more desert regions the palm was the tree most worshiped. As the The Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics states: "Tree worship pure and simple, where the tree is in all respects treated as a god, is attested for Arabia in the case of the sacred date-palm in Nejran. It was adorned at an annual feast with fine clothes and women's ornaments" (vol.12, p.449).
Where do we draw the line? My whole focus and the major point of my argument had to do with transgressions of the Law according to Scripture and the hypocrisy surrounding how we conduct our lives in accordance to Scripture by allowing for practices that are contrary to what has been written.
For those who want to put themselves under the Law, they make the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross in vain. They should also be aware that there are over 600 laws, and they must obey all of them if they want to be under the Law.
Matthew 22:36-40 KJV Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practises and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:17-19, NIV).
Jesus spoke clearly and to the point. God's law has not been abolished, and, according to Christ's own words, anyone who teaches so is directly contradicting Him. It states that the law is still in effect until heaven and earth disappear which last time I checked, we are still here.
Paul taught, "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous . . ." (Romans 2:13, NIV).
Paul markedly told those judging him that He had continued to use the Old Testament Scriptures as the authority for his beliefs: ". . . I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets" (Acts 24:13-14).
Accusations then or now that Paul taught against the law of God are fallacious. Even of his preaching to the gentiles, He said, "I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God ..." (Romans 15:18, NIV). Paul kept the commandments of God. He taught them to Jews and gentiles alike.
The apostle John clearly defines sin, telling us that "sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, KJV).
Like Paul, John describes the saints as "those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). He also gives us this sobering warning: "He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:4).
So which one is it? It would seem that our Scripture directly contradicts each other.
The purpose of Christ’s atoning work was to restore man to a position of covenant keeping
instead of covenant-breaking, to enable man to keep the law by freeing man
“from the law of sin and death” (Rom 8:2) “that the righteousness of the law might be
fulfilled in us” (Rom 8:4). Man is restored to a position of law-keeping. The law thus has a
position of centrality in man’s indictment (as a sentence of death against man the sinner),
in man’s redemption (in that Christ died, Who although the perfect law keeper as the new
Adam, died as man’s substitute), and in man’s sanctification (in that man grows in grace
as he grows in law-keeping, for the law is the way of sanctification).
Regardless of this pointless bickering about whether or not we as Christian are still under the Law, Christ did affirm that we are to keep the 10 Commandments. The original question of this thread was whether or not it was okay for Christians to celebrate Christmas and it was already brought up in previous posts that this was a holiday rooted in paganism.
The Second Commandment goes to the heart of our relationship with our Creator. What is the proper way to worship the only true God?
“You shall not make unto you any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 You shall not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my Commandments.” Exodus 20:4-6
A physical image, painting or picture of a deity has neither life nor power. Even if we knew exactly what God looks like, which we do not know, we could not design icons that would portray the many facets of His character revealed to us through His Word. At some times God acts with gentleness and mercy and at others with great wrath and power. He does not want us to perceive Him as frozen in one trait of personality or character to the exclusion of His many other traits. He asks that we read about Him, learn what He is like and emulate Him.
After writing the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone, God explained why He wanted no images used in worship of Him. “Take you therefore good heed unto yourselves; for you saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spoke unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: 16 Lest you corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, … 19 And lest you lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when you seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD your God has divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. 20 But the LORD has taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as you are this day.” Deuteronomy 4:15-20
God wanted the Israelites to remember that they were to worship the living God, not an idol, and always to direct their worship toward their Creator and never toward objects within His creation. He commanded them, “Take heed unto yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD your God has forbidden you.” Deuteronomy 4:23. Depictions of deities engraved and painted on walls, pottery and other articles are included among the forbidden and idolatrous objects (Numbers 33:52)
If the Christmas Tree is a pagan artifact and all of the myth and lore that is associated with it represent meaning attributed to a false god, then why as a Christian do you condone it? That is the crux of the matter.
Is there a command anywhere in the Holy Scriptures that a human should cut a tree out of the forest, set it up in one's home at the time of the Winter Solstice, deck it with trinkets and various decorations, and then place a star on its topmost part to show an association of the tree with the signs of the heavens?
The authorities in Post-Reformation England condemned the celebration of Christmas altogether as being a pagan institution (without the slightest warrant in the Bible) and made laws forbidding it to be celebrated. Anyone found cooking a Christmas ham had their dinner taken away and they themselves were arrested. Similar laws were put into effect in the American colonies. In Massachusetts, the following law was passed in 1659 and was enforced on the people for 22 years before it was finally repealed."Whosoever shall be found observing Christmas, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, every such person shall pay as a fine five shillings to the county." The reason that the pilgrims were forbidding the celebration of Christmas (and the festivities that went with it) was because they were wise enough to realize that the Bible did not condone such customs of the early heathen that had nothing to do with the teachings of Christianity. In fact, they had many scriptures that made it quite clear that God was not pleased with such idolatrous celebrations. One such command was found in Jeremiah 10:2,3
"Hear you the word which the Lord speaks unto you, 0 house of Israel. Thus says the Lord. Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of the heaven; for the nations are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain.
The pagan customs of the Gentile peoples were held in contempt by the people of God who lived in the biblical periods. This has not been the case, however, in modern times. It is usually reckoned by modern Christian authorities that the many customs of our early pagan forefathers can be innocent forms of frivolity and celebration and that God in no way condemns such practices. The vast majority of church leaders of the various denominations not only condone the Christmas and Easter celebrations that they know come directly from pagan religious ceremonies, but they actively encourage the use of them in the churches themselves and in the homes of the people. Among such customs is the setting up of Christmas trees. This custom is nothing more than a retention of pagan "tree worship" (which anthropologists and historians have for centuries informed the general public), but the setting up of Christmas trees continues unabated in multitudes of Christian churches around the world.
Jeremiah 10:1-5 and 8,9.
Hear you the word which the Lord speaks unto you, O house of Israel. Thus says the Lord. Learn not the way of the heathen and be not dismayed at the signs of the heaven; for the nations are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain. For one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it [the tree] with silver and with gold. They fasten it [the tree] with nails and with hammers that it move not. They [such trees] are upright as the palm tree, but speak not. The tree [KJV: stock] is a doctrine of vanities. Silver is spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder. Blue and purple is their clothing. They [the trees] are all the work of cunning men."
When Jeremiah said "one cuts a tree out of the forest," the word for "tree" is a Hebrew word that ordinarily means a living tree that grows in the ground. The "trees" in the Garden of Eden, including that of the knowledge of good and evil as well as the tree of life, were indicated as being ordinary "trees" by the use of this word. True, it can sometimes means a block of wood, but when Jeremiah said to cut a tree "from the forest," a forest is made up of numerous trees usually over a vast region of land. A forest is made up of many trees, not many "blocks of wood" or "pieces of timber." The immediate context of Jeremiah shows he is really talking about a tree that one can cut down and that it [the tree] can be decked or adorned with gold or silver and/or blue or purple cloths.
Such "tree worship" was well known in the time of Jeremiah and later. The oak was universally held in esteem. In mountainous areas cedars and firs were worshiped. In more desert regions the palm was the tree most worshiped. As the The Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics states: "Tree worship pure and simple, where the tree is in all respects treated as a god, is attested for Arabia in the case of the sacred date-palm in Nejran. It was adorned at an annual feast with fine clothes and women's ornaments" (vol.12, p.449).
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5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. 6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. 7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. 8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12 And this [shall be] a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, 14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. 15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us. 16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. 17 And when they had seen [it], they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. 18 And all they that heard [it] wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds. 19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered [them] in her heart. 20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them. 
