LHC Discovers the Universe was once Liquid

[MorkandMindy]

If the bible is so clear, why do we have to have discussions like this? When it says firmament it means gravity and when it says water it means plasma but when it says global flood and rib women it means global flood and rib women but when it says seven headed beast it means russia.

Well the Bible is absolutely clear it is just man's sin that stops him from understanding it.

And that applies unfortunately to Christians as well, which is why there has been arguments about dispensationalism and covenant theology and predestinationism and ultramontanism and between the Arian beliefs and Athanasian theology and the Ebionites and Paul's religion and whether God actually does know the future or Jesus doesn't even though God the Father does and whether works has a role in salvation or it doesn't, whether the Holy Spirit is sent by the Father or the Father and the Son, which books really belong in the Bible, whether Christianity is pacifist, and whether the Bible means what is says or actually really means other stuff, and if so what.

 

[Gishin]

Well the Bible is absolutely clear it is just man's sin that stops him from understanding it.

And that applies unfortunately to Christians as well, which is why there has been arguments about dispensationalism and covenant theology and predestinationism and ultramontanism and between the Arian beliefs and Athanasian theology and the Ebionites and Paul's religion and whether God actually does know the future or Jesus doesn't even though God the Father does and whether works has a role in salvation or it doesn't, whether the Holy Spirit is sent by the Father or the Father and the Son, which books really belong in the Bible, whether Christianity is pacifist, and whether the Bible means what is says or actually really means other stuff, and if so what.

Sin keeps us from understanding what the bible says so we should read the bible to know what sin is though we can't understand it due to sin. Gotcha.

 

[MorkandMindy]

http://www.aarweb.org/syllabus/syllabi/g/gier/306/OTcosmos.jpg

Of course, not everybody subscribes to the literal.

That is the really big cop out.

If I was telling a story, like the Emperor's New Clothes, it would not contain factual stupidity. I wouldn't throw in stuff like 'his normal clothes were made from water' or nonsense. Lies are unnecessary and detract from the story.

For all I know the story of the Emperor's New Clothes could have happened somewhere. Maybe a Roman Emperor did it one day. There is nothing factually wrong with it. And being correct doesn't detract in any way from the metaphorical value of the story.

The claim that God writes a big book for everyone but unfortunately He just doesn't understand science, so it says some pretty stupid things, well that idea stinks.

You don't get omniscient beings who write nonsense because they missed their science lessons.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Since I had previously, explicitly, and under oath swore that I was indeed telling the truth, I would be lying to then say "Oh, actually, what I said wasn't meant to be taken literally".

Though the thought of God going under oath when he authors the Bible is somewhat amusing... what does he place his hand on?

You must recall the Word:



Jer 22 v 5

'But if ye will not hear these words, I swear by myself, saith the LORD, that this house shall become a desolation.'



God doesn't finish the Bible with this disclaimer:


'I may have got some of the history wrong, and just ignore the science because it is easier to lie than tell the truth, and apologies for not clarifying the point about what exactly must be done to be saved, I'll clear all that up in my final revelation which will be called ...'

 

[Doveaman]

The article describes the very early universe as being a hot plasma

That pretty much explains why the universe is electric, doesn't it? it's because we are living in a plasma universe.

Plasma cosmologists knew this for many years without the need for a Large Hadron Behemoth.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

You must recall the Word:

I thought the Bird was the Word.

 

[rockaction]

Well the Bible is absolutely clear it is just man's sin that stops him from understanding it.

And that applies unfortunately to Christians as well, which is why there has been arguments about dispensationalism and covenant theology and predestinationism and ultramontanism and between the Arian beliefs and Athanasian theology and the Ebionites and Paul's religion and whether God actually does know the future or Jesus doesn't even though God the Father does and whether works has a role in salvation or it doesn't, whether the Holy Spirit is sent by the Father or the Father and the Son, which books really belong in the Bible, whether Christianity is pacifist, and whether the Bible means what is says or actually really means other stuff, and if so what.

I don't get it. Only somebody "without sin" can properly interpret the Bible? I really wonder how you would judge the wide differences of opinion in these varied Christian groups. Do you elect a Pope or some flawless person to interpret everything? Because once you get two people in a room, even if they're about as sinless as humans can get, they would not agree on one interpretation of the Bible.

I would say you pretty much have to admit that the Bible is inherently vague on many, many things. Trouble comes from religion the moment people start assuming that there is only one interpretation of their text.

 

[juvenissun]

For the good of humanity. The developments of vaccinations and refrigeration, germ theory and evolution, quantum mechanics and relativistic mechanics, have all fundamentally changed the world we live in. You can insult scientists and the scientific method all you want, at the end of the day, it produces results. Attacking science has done nothing but impinge human progress and the improvement of human (and non-human) lives.

Like I said, show me something other than science that can give us vaccines and quantum theory, and I'll eat my hat.


I said this to someone else, so I figure our conversation could go any which way. If you want to go into how something other than and wholly separate to science can produce its life-altering discoveries, be my guest.

Herbs. (your hat might be eatable)

You are an emotional debater. Who said I insulted science? When did I do that?

 

[juvenissun]

We're not talking about whether or not we can learn a lesson, we're asking if it really happened.

People can learn from many texts, including ones that describe actual events and ones that do not.
It seems to me that in this discussion you're confusing moral correctness with empirical truth.

Science has nothing to say about morality, right or wrong questions are not something it can answer. Men make those decisions.

The real question I'm asking is.. what understanding is there in the Bible that you cannot get somewhere else, and what is there that shows this understanding is correct?

You think about that again. Science is trying to cover anything and everything, including theology. Heard of "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] gene" recently?

 

[juvenissun]

We're not talking about whether or not we can learn a lesson, we're asking if it really happened.

People can learn from many texts, including ones that describe actual events and ones that do not.
It seems to me that in this discussion you're confusing moral correctness with empirical truth.

Science has nothing to say about morality, right or wrong questions are not something it can answer. Men make those decisions.

The real question I'm asking is.. what understanding is there in the Bible that you cannot get somewhere else, and what is there that shows this understanding is correct?

Genesis 1.
The OP shows it is correct.

 

[rockaction]

Herbs. (your hat might be eatable)

You are an emotional debater. Who said I insulted science? When did I do that?

You said it wasn't essential

And herbs give us vaccines? Huh?

 

[juvenissun]

Stars ripple all the time, it's called atmospheric distortion. The wind is literally blowing the light, making them twinkle.

As for the rain being kept above the stars... have you ever seen one of these?

It's where rain comes from. And where do they in turn come from? Evaporated surface water.

Rain is not kept above the stars - though I'd love to see proof to the contrary.

The earth is "above" the sun.

 

[juvenissun]

You said it wasn't essential

And herbs give us vaccines? Huh?

Yes. It is not very scientific.

 

[rockaction]

Yes. It is not very scientific.

Do you not know what a vaccine is?

 

[Gishin]

Keep the rationalizing up. If they had proved the universe was solid you'd find some way to twist that into proving the bible right.

 

[KIYX]

Genesis 1.
The OP shows it is correct.

Only if you completely and totally have zero understanding of what the op said.

 

[KIYX]

The earth is "above" the sun.

Since when?

 

[Targ]

Even if you did opt with the perspective that the Sun is above the Earth, it would only be the case for half the year. The other half it would be under the Earth. Anyway, don't think you really addressed the comment properly there Juve.

 

[KIYX]

Above and below doesn't exists in space... it's all about perception.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

That pretty much explains why the universe is electric, doesn't it? it's because we are living in a plasma universe.

Plasma cosmologists knew this for many years without the need for a Large Hadron Behemoth.

We always knew the universe had a fine plasma dispersed through space. Plasma cosmologists, however, assert that this plasma explains the large-scale phenomena we see better than gravity and dark matter.

The LHC showed that the early universe was also a plasma (which we hitherto didn't know, so kudos to the LHC), and that it behaved like a liquid (again, something we hitherto did not know).