The Antimasonic Propaganda Machine

[ChristianMasonJim]

Please provide the posts and I will read them.

Sorry, but I don't have the time to dig through all of my posts just to find references for you. It would probably do you some good to dig around a bit to familiarize yourself with what has actually been posted here, so you are more than welcome to utilize the forum's search features, or just browse around. After all, everything related to Freemasonry is confined to this one sub-forum, right?

 

[ALX25]

Sorry, but I don't have the time to dig through all of my posts just to find references for you. It would probably do you some good to dig around a bit to familiarize yourself with what has actually been posted here, so you are more than welcome to utilize the forum's search features, or just browse around. After all, everything related to Freemasonry is confined to this one sub-forum, right?

If some one told me the organization I belonged to was catergorized as unorthodox theology and I wanted to prove them wrong , I would provide any and all information I could to disprove that person. You on the other hand must not believe in what you expressed or posted once upon a time regarding this issue as proof, if you don't take your own posts serious how do you expect some one else too.

Are you serious Jim. Im telling you to your face via internet that masonry is not of God the father God the Son and God the Holly spirit and you want me to look for your proof.... The standard is put up or shut up

 

[ALX25]

We got a man down in here !! How many fingers do you see Jim , Hold on Jim , help is on the way .....


I gave you a chance to discuss your views , and you blew it ...you shot your self in the foot , and I went easy on you, is there any mason here that believes what they post to defend masonry....


This is why I told you in the begining Jim to just watch from the sidelines... now do you understand Jim your argument lasted maybe 7 posts before you retreated.. maybe wayne will come and help you to your feet, keep ice on your head and take some tylenol...

And by the way that anger and disapointment you feel is your realization that the lies of masonry just isn't worth promoting or defending...

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

If some one told me the organization I belonged to was catergorized as unorthodox theology and I wanted to prove them wrong , I would provide any and all information I could to disprove that person.

Good for you. I have provided answers in my past posts, and I will not be bullied into re-writing and re-hashing what I have already discussed, and I'm not about to spoon-feed you when I and many other readers know where I stand.

You on the other hand must not believe in what you expressed or posted once upon a time regarding this issue as proof, if you don't take your own posts serious how do you expect some one else too.

On the contrary, I take my posts very seriously, and I stand by what I wrote. How others take them is their business. And like anyone else on this forum, you have every opportunity to seek out what I wrote for yourself. I know what I wrote, many readers of this forum (since May of this year) know what I wrote, and I stand by what I wrote. I'm not about to spoon-feed you when I and many other readers know where I stand on these issues.

Are you serious Jim. Im telling you to your face via internet that masonry is not of God the father God the Son and God the Holly spirit and you want me to look for your proof....

No, I don't want you to do anything. What you do here is up to you. I have already said my words which I stand by, and I'm not about to spoon-feed you when I and many other readers know where I stand.

The standard is put up or shut up

I have already very specifically "put up" on this forum, and I'm not about to spoon-feed you when I and many other readers know where I stand.

When I first joined this forum, I took the time (a long time) to read EVERY post related to Freemasonry in this sub-forum. Can you say the same? Or did you just come barging in her, seeing

 

[ALX25]

Good for you. I have provided answers in my past posts, and I will not be bullied into re-writing and re-hashing what I have already discussed, and I'm not about to spoon-feed you when I and many other readers know where I stand.


On the contrary, I take my posts very seriously, and I stand by what I wrote. How others take them is their business. And like anyone else on this forum, you have every opportunity to seek out what I wrote for yourself. I know what I wrote, many readers of this forum (since May of this year) know what I wrote, and I stand by what I wrote. I'm not about to spoon-feed you when I and many other readers know where I stand on these issues.


No, I don't want you to do anything. What you do here is up to you. I have already said my words which I stand by, and I'm not about to spoon-feed you when I and many other readers know where I stand.


I have already very specifically "put up" on this forum, and I'm not about to spoon-feed you when I and many other readers know where I stand.

When I first joined this forum, I took the time (a long time) to read EVERY post related to Freemasonry in this sub-forum. Can you say the same? Or did you just come barging in her, seeing

You and your views and your posts stand in a forum named "Unorthodox Theology" and I an Ex-mason believe thats the right place for masonry, you Jim have the burden of proof to provide otherwise , its your organization not mine, you Jim can't provide a counter-claim, you Jim have no defense...

By the way no one stipulated to your prior posts being recognized as proof of why masonry does not belong in "Unorthodox theology", furthermore as you stated your views and posts have allowed everyone to know where you stand on this topic from some time ago, and the end result of your past posts bring us to here and now, your organization of freemasonry still to this very hour remains in Unorthodox Theology

So tell me Christianmason Jim what source , or what piece of evidence can you provide that would make christianforums believe that masonry does not belong in a forum named "unorthdox Theology"

 

[O.F.F.]

So tell me Christianmason Jim what source , or what piece of evidence can you provide that would make christianforums believe that masonry does not belong in a forum named "unorthdox Theology?"

Although, Jim & Wayne will try to either discount the fact you bring up, and/or attempt to explain it away, the fact remains. Therefore, my brother, I think you bring up a very good point. It's one question that I too have brought to their attention, with equal inability on the part of Masons in providing an adequate answer.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree! Here is one of the clearest indications that it is not of God (of the Bible that is). Any genuine Christian, especially a pastor, who views the attached photo from the Grand Lodge of India, knows that any religious organization that permits on its altar the Holy Bible resting there along side the false writings of false religions that acknowledge false gods, IS IN CONFLICT with the known will of God and with His revealed Word. And is therefore NOT of the One True Living God!

It's your accusation that is problematic. Perhaps you thought the readers would not recall what was said, or perhaps you thought everyone, including myself, would overlook it. Here is the statement I made:

Masonry was founded on biblical principles, and those principles undergird its entire structure. Here is one of the clearest indications of it, from Mackey's Encyclopedia, "Jehovah":

All I said was, it was founded on biblical principles. I hate to disappoint you, but "Masonry being founded on biblical principles" cannot be refuted by showing some Grand Lodge on the other side of the world has other books on the altar. The question, given what I stated rather than what you addressed in reply, is, what is the content as found in the rituals of the Grand Lodge of India? Although I do not have a ritual directly from their Grand Lodge so that we may examine it, we DO have a means of making that determination: the Grand Lodge of India has a website, and that site is published in the English language. On the site are several articles that the Grand Lodge of India has on-site, discussing various points of their ritual. There we find:

We need to help our new members to understand what the present ritual is trying to tell them in the language of the past. While I would not suggest that we replace the ritual we use in the ceremonies, I would like to see made available to candidates, immediately after they become master masons, a written interpretation of the ritual in modern English. This would help them to understand what we are trying to communicate to them in our ritual. After all, this approach has already been adopted with the Bible. When I was young, the King James version of the Bible was the only one readily available. Now we have a number of versions in modern English, which serve to clarify the more obscured passages. (Jan.-March 2008 issue of Square & Compasses, the official magazine of the Grand Lodge of India)

It is interesting to note that in every Degree of Freemasonry the words and incidents associated with them are found in the bible which is considered to be the Volume of the Sacred Law by Freemasons, though when any person who does not have faith in the Bible takes his Oath of Secrecy on the Volume considered by him to be sacred, and an oath taken on it makes it binding upon him.

The Building of the Holy Temple is recorded in great detail in the Volume of the Sacred Law, i.e. in the Old Testament of the Bible. As I have said above every Degree in Freemasonry is derived from some part of the Bible. It includes the New Testament also. ("Some Thoughts on Freemasonry," By W. Bro. Rev. P. A. KRISHNASWAMI, M.A. P.A.G. Chap., District Grand Secretary, District Grand Lodge of Bengal)

The Wisdom of Masonry is exemplified in establishing her basis on the immutable foundation of Truth. Her cardinal principle is belief in the existence of God. All other truths correlative with belief in a Deity have a place in her system. The Bible, as the source and standard of Truth, is exalted on her altars as her first great light, and all her moral teachings, are but beams of its brightness. (From " Freemasonry & ITS Principles," an oration delivered by W. Bro. S.G. Lovelace – at the foundation stone of the new Masonic temple at Dehradun)

The best definition of Brotherly Love that comes to my mind is from St. John the Apostle, the beloved disciple of Jesus Christ, who said:
"He who says that he is in the light, and has hate in his heart for his brother, is still in the dark."
"He who has love for his brother is in the light, and there is no cause of error in him."
(Ist Epistle of John, Ch. 2:9 & 10)
"No man has ever seen God: if we have love for one another, God is in us and his love is made complete in us."
(Ist Epistle of John, Ch.4:12)
Having come in our thoughts when dealing with Brotherly Love, to God dealing with Brotherly Love, to God Himself, I do not think that I should say any more about it.
But what about Relief ?
Regarding this also certain verses from the Volume of the Sacred Law come to my mind: St. James writes in his Epistle, Chapter 2, Verses 15 and 16 as follows:-
"If a brother or a sister is without clothing and in need of food,
"And one of you says to there, Go in peace, be warm and full of food; but you do not give them the things of which their bodies have need, what profit is there in this ?"
Also in I John, Ch. 3:17 it is said:
"But if a man has this world's goods, and sees that his brother is in need, and keeps his heart shut against his brother, how is it possible for the love of God to be in him?"
Thus in essence Relief boils down to this, that we share what we have got with those who do not have but need them so that there is fellow-feeling and cheer and contentment all around. Happy have we met; happy have we been! ("THE GRAND PRINCIPLES OF FREEMASONRY," By W. Bro. P. A. Krishnaswami, M.A., P.A.G.D.C.)

Freemasonry does not claim to be a religion. Yet, viewed in the manner in which it is dealt with in this essay, in its very base is the grandest principle of all religions, viz., Truth. The daily advancement in Masonic knowledge which a Mason is presumed to make means that all his actions and thoughts must be so shaped and directed as to the ultimate discovery of Truth.
What is Truth ? asked Pilate of Jesus Christ; but before he could receive an answer he went out in a hurry anxious to proclaim the innocence of Jesus to the clamoring crowd outside. The spirit and the circumstances in which the question was asked was poignant indeed.
And yet the very person to whom the question was put had said:
"To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Everyone that is of the truth heareth my voice"
(St. John, Ch 18:37)
He had also said:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life."
(St. John, Ch. 14:6)
These are very weighty words and I must close this short essay with those words. (("THE GRAND PRINCIPLES OF FREEMASONRY," By W. Bro. P. A. Krishnaswami, M.A., P.A.G.D.C.)

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."(Galatians 5:14).
That is the first of the three great tenets of Freemasonry - Brotherly Love. (W. Bro. C. S. Madhavan. "Relevance of Masonic Philosophy in Today's Context")

Freemasonry and its principles

Freemasonry is fundamentally based on Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth which are ethical principles acceptable to all good men. It supports the "Golden Rule" - To do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you. It teaches each member to act and live in such a way that he will always strive to become a better man, not better than someone else, but better tomorrow than he is today. ("Introduction to Freemasonry and a quick overview of its history," compiled by R.W.Bro Justice Devinder Gupta, Dy. G. M. Grand Lodge of India)

In the Holy Bible it is mentioned that the inner chamber of King Solomon's Temple was separated from the "Holy Place" by a partition wall of stone of a cubit's thickness. In it was set a door of olive wood of Pentagonal shape i.e. its top lintel was not a regular straight cross beam but consisted of two beams meeting at an angle. One can, therefore, assume that the "Sacred Arch of King Solomon's Temple" was a similar one and the keystone referred to in our ritual was one which was placed over the highest corner thus formed by two beams of the pentagon. (From an Oration Delivered by V.W.Bro. K.K. Gautam, Grand Chaplain, at the Consecration of Kashi Vishwanath Mark Master Masons Lodge No. 117, Varanasi on October 23, 2006)

The preparation is accompanied by ceremonies which, to a superficial thinker may appear trifling and undignified, although they embody a series of references to certain sublime matters, which constitute the very essence of the institution, and contribute to its stability and permanent usefulness everything to be done decently and in order. But ceremonies, considered abstractedly, are of little value, except as they contribute their aid to impress upon the mind scientific beauties and moral truths, and this is the peculiar characteristic of our Order, which although its rites and observances are studiously complicated throughout the whole routine of its consecutive degrees, does not contain a single ceremony that is barren of intellectual improvement, for they all bear a direct reference to certain ancient usage’s recorded in the Bible, which is always expanded on the pedestal in the East. (From "Masonic Preparations," H. Geffen, P.F.S., in Square & Compasses, May/June 2002, p. 2)

Like the Mark Master Mason's Degree, which is based on an established fact - the construction of the Temple at Jerusalem, so the degree of Royal Ark Mariner is also based on an actual happening - the Great Flood, as recorded in the Bible and as verified in 1929 by the archaeologist Sir Leonard Woolley, who not only found clear evidence of the flood, but established that it had occurred some 6,000 years previously.

The legend of Noah, his sons, the Ark and the Deluge were enacted in the Mystery Plays of the seventeenth century and continued as catechisms in many of the early Masonic rituals. By the 1750s there was a Degree of Noachites or Prussian Knights. However, the first authentic record of the degree appears in the minutes of a meeting held in Bath in 1790.

The qualification for "elevation to membership" is that of being a Mark Master Mason. Elevation into the Royal Ark Mariner Degree commemorates the providence and mercy of God and relates to the legend of the deluge. The subject matter being taken directly from The Bible is naturally both beautiful and instructive. When the candidate enters the Lodge room his attention is directed to three pillars and at one stage the Ark is momentarily symbolised in terms similar to the Ark of Salvation. The candidate is finally instructed to advance in the spirit of the Cardinal Virtues. (Address by the Grand Master of India at the consecration of RAM Lodge #110 at Chennai)

So despite your protest, what I stated is true also of the Grand Lodge of India: their version of Masonry is ALSO based upon biblical principles, complete with the biblical accounts; and not only do they accept that to be so, they declare it to be so. These articles show them speaking of the Bible as Masonry's "first great light," using the term "Volume of Sacred Law" in reference to the Bible, and declaring that every principle of Masonry derives from the Bible. Not only that, you have these things stated not just by the rank and file, but by a District Grand Secretary, by a Grand Chaplain, and by the Grand Master himself.

Since they have more than one book upon the altar, that obviously presents a problem for you--but equally obviously, it apparently presents no problem for them. As for who is the "God of the Lodge" in India, I will leave that up to someone else to determine. All I sought to establish was, that the principles found in the rituals of Freemasonry are biblical principles. In this, the Grand Lodge of India concurs, given the abundant indications of it as seen above.

 

[Rev Wayne]

It's one question that I too have brought to their attention, with equal inability on the part of Masons in providing an adequate answer.

Bullfeathers! Your ridiculous "question" has been a non-issue for God only knows how long now, and we'ver responded to it "adequately" an equal number of times.

If Freemasonry is to be classified as a theology, then it would by definition HAVE to be "unorthodox." Why? Because Freemasonry is not a theology at all.

Theology:

1: the study of religious faith, practice, and experience; especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world
2
a : a theological theory or system <Thomist theology> <a theology of atonement> b : a distinctive body of theological opinion <Catholic theology>

Not a religion, not a theology. Freemasonry is a system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols. The very act of calling it a theology is unorthodox.

 

[Skip Sampson]

All I sought to establish was, that the principles found in the rituals of Freemasonry are biblical principles.

Where in Masonic rituals are the following Biblical principles found?
- Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ alone.
- Men become children of God only through faith in Jesus Christ.
- Men who have not acknowledged Jesus Christ as their savior will never be received in Heaven, and will instead suffer eternal punishment.

Which Biblical principle justifies these actions in the ritual?
- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to allow oneself to be murdered if found in violation of Masonic secrets.
- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to favor other Master Masons over non-Masons.
- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to not violate only the wives and female relatives of other Master Masons, presumably only those in good standing, that is. Violation of the female relatives of non-masons and EA or FC Masons is not part of the promise.
- Forbidding the use of Jesus Christ's name in Lodge prayers.

Just curious. Cordially, Skip.

 

[ALX25]

Where in Masonic rituals are the following Biblical principles found?
- Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ alone.
- Men become children of God only through faith in Jesus Christ.
- Men who have not acknowledged Jesus Christ as their savior will never be received in Heaven, and will instead suffer eternal punishment.

Which Biblical principle justifies these actions in the ritual?
- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to allow oneself to be murdered if found in violation of Masonic secrets.
- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to favor other Master Masons over non-Masons.
- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to not violate only the wives and female relatives of other Master Masons, presumably only those in good standing, that is. Violation of the female relatives of non-masons and EA or FC Masons is not part of the promise.
- Forbidding the use of Jesus Christ's name in Lodge prayers.

Just curious. Cordially, Skip.

Masons will claim Freemasonry is not a religion or a theology yet there quick to claim it's structured and even founded on biblical principals, and as OFF pointed out their lodges house multiple VSL's ( Volumes of Sacred Law )which is an act on thier part of illustrating equality with the word of the true and living God Christ JESUS and false gods and false prophets, and to top it all off as you pointed out Skip the lodge forbides the use of JESUS christ's name in lodge prayers. When I was a mason I remeber being asked to pray at the end of a lodge meeting, and of course I began my prayer with "Father God in JESUS name I pray" , I finished my prayer and began to exit the lodge when I was approached by the senior warden and I believe the chaplin, and they said "When we pray in the lodge we don't use the name of JESUS" I remeber leaving that night wondering what did I do that was so wrong. One thing I know now ,is that these clear observations and facts of the masonic lodge reflect a departed path from Christianity,

Which only points in one direction, masonry is not of the God of the Holy Bible.

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

Where in Masonic rituals are the following Biblical principles found?
- Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ alone.
- Men become children of God only through faith in Jesus Christ.
- Men who have not acknowledged Jesus Christ as their savior will never be received in Heaven, and will instead suffer eternal punishment.

Freemasonry doesn't claim that all Biblical principles are represented. It never did, and it doesn't have to. This is the fallacy that you and most Masonic attackers continue to perpetuate: that anything that remotely refers to anything in the Bible must therefore represent everything that is included in the Bible.

Which Biblical principle justifies these actions in the ritual?

Freemasonry doesn't claim that all aspects of the organization are represented by Biblical principles. It never did, and it doesn't have to. Yet another fallacy that you and most Masonic attackers continue to perpetuate.

- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to allow oneself to be murdered if found in violation of Masonic secrets.

The allegorical and symbolic promises made in Freemasonry are designed to promote a sense of loyalty. You know as well as anyone that the penalties are purely symbolic in nature, and have never been carried out.

- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to favor other Master Masons over non-Masons.

This is absolutely 100% false. NOTHING in South Carolina degree work even come close to this claim. Please show evidence to the contrary.

- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to not violate only the wives and female relatives of other Master Masons, presumably only those in good standing, that is. Violation of the female relatives of non-masons and EA or FC Masons is not part of the promise.

The concept is to generally promote integrity by illustration of a specific example. It is not meant to be an exhaustive laundry list.

- Forbidding the use of Jesus Christ's name in Lodge prayers.

We've been over this before and shown that, at least in South Carolina, this assertion is not accurate.

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

You and your views and your posts stand in a forum named "Unorthodox Theology" and I an Ex-mason believe thats the right place for masonry, you Jim have the burden of proof to provide otherwise , its your organization not mine, you Jim can't provide a counter-claim, you Jim have no defense...

By the way no one stipulated to your prior posts being recognized as proof of why masonry does not belong in "Unorthodox theology", furthermore as you stated your views and posts have allowed everyone to know where you stand on this topic from some time ago, and the end result of your past posts bring us to here and now, your organization of freemasonry still to this very hour remains in Unorthodox Theology

So tell me Christianmason Jim what source , or what piece of evidence can you provide that would make christianforums believe that masonry does not belong in a forum named "unorthdox Theology"

I have stated my views on this, and I will not argue this point with you any further. If someone else wants to, so be it.

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

and as OFF pointed out there lodges house multiple VSL's

The presence of multiple VSL's are 100% determined by jurisdiction--it is not mandatory across all of Freemasonry. And the presence of multiple VLS's doesn't imply in any way equal standing among them. In many jurisdictions, the Holy Bible, and only the Holy Bible are required for opening a tyled lodge.

As Wayne stated above, the Holy Bible, not any other VSL, is foundational to Masonic ritual, regardless of location--that is fact. And the presence of any other VSL is to provide something personal that that the candidate can symbolically consider a source of personal trust during the obligation. It is symbolic of trust and loyalty, not of any specific religion.

 

[ALX25]

The presence of multiple VSL's are 100% determined by jurisdiction--it is not mandatory across all of Freemasonry. And the presence of multiple VLS's doesn't imply in any way equal standing among them. In many jurisdictions, the Holy Bible, and only the Holy Bible are required for opening a tyled lodge.

As Wayne stated above, the Holy Bible, not any other VSL, is foundational to Masonic ritual, regardless of location--that is fact. And the presence of any other VSL is to provide something personal that that the candidate can symbolically consider a source of personal trust during the obligation. It is symbolic of trust and loyalty, not of any specific religion.

Jim the term Volume of Sacred Law implies a part or fragment of a collective unit, this "Unit" is placed on an alter in the Lodge, along side the Holy Bible, in christianity, Christians are taught :

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." -- John 14:6 (NKJV)


Masonry allows the teachings and beliefs of false gods and false prohets, to be placed along side the Holy Bible thats the demonstrating act of the mason that the Holy Bible's absolute truth can be intergrated with and into any other Volume of sacred law, i.e the Quran( false doctrine), the lodge agrees to place on the alter, as a christian this is viewed as intolerable.

And remember Jim Freemasonsry is a fraternal order of brotherhood.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Where in Masonic rituals are the following Biblical principles found?
- Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ alone.
- Men become children of God only through faith in Jesus Christ.
- Men who have not acknowledged Jesus Christ as their savior will never be received in Heaven, and will instead suffer eternal punishment.

Which Biblical principle justifies these actions in the ritual?
- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to allow oneself to be murdered if found in violation of Masonic secrets.
- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to favor other Master Masons over non-Masons.
- Kneeling in the presence of God and promising to not violate only the wives and female relatives of other Master Masons, presumably only those in good standing, that is. Violation of the female relatives of non-masons and EA or FC Masons is not part of the promise.
- Forbidding the use of Jesus Christ's name in Lodge prayers.

Just curious. Cordially, Skip.

The only thing "curious" is why someone would think a system of morality ought to match up point-by-point with the Christian religion. Besides, "Masonry's principles are biblical principles" does not equate to "Masonry teaches every biblical principle you can think of," as you seem to think it does. The rest is all spin, and there is nothing that has not already been responded to umpteen times and years ago.

Which Biblical principle justifies these actions in the ritual?

Not one of these is taught as a principle of Masonry, not in the manner in which you have chosen to add your own personal explanations to them.

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

Jim the term Volume of Sacred Law implies a part or fragment of a collective unit, this "Unit" is placed on an alter in the Lodge, along side the Holy Bible,

There is no implication that multiple VSL's constitute a greater whole or that a single VSL is a fragment of a greater whole. A "volume" is simply a collection of written or printed sheets bound together and constituting a book. Each VSL is a separate and distinct book. And a Volume of Sacred Law is just a Masonic term for any religious or philosophical texts displayed in an open lodge.

in christianity, Christians are taught :

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." -- John 14:6 (NKJV)

As a Christian, I believe this to be true.

Masonry allows the teachings and beliefs of false gods and false prohets, to be placed along side the Holy Bible thats the demonstrating act of the mason that the Holy Bible's absolute truth can be intergrated with and into any other Volume of sacred law, i.e the Quran( false doctrine), the lodge agrees to place on the alter, as a christian this is viewed as intolerable.

Physical proximity of one VSL to another provides no implication that they are related or are to be taken as a whole. By your logic, you would never enter a library or bookstore because its varied religious works exist in equal proximity. The only VSL that is consistent throughout Freemasonry is the Holy Bible.

And remember Jim Freemasonry is a fraternal order of brotherhood.

That's right. And generally speaking, I consider every man to be a brother of sorts. After all, regardless of our chosen religion, or our inherited race, we are all descended from Adam

 

[ALX25]

The only thing "curious" is why someone would think a system of morality ought to match up point-by-point with the Christian religion. Besides, "Masonry's principles are biblical principles" does not equate to "Masonry teaches every biblical principle you can think of," as you seem to think it does. The rest is all spin, and there is nothing that has not already been responded to umpteen times and years ago.

Simply because Christ JESUS is absolute truth and only he is capable of teaching a system of morality.

But what is realy " curious " is why would a Rev. or pastor of a christian church agrue that a system of morality should not match up point-by-point with the christian religion.... very curious

 

[ALX25]

There is no implication that multiple VSL's constitute a greater whole or that a single VSL is a fragment of a greater whole. A "volume" is simply a collection of written or printed sheets bound together and constituting a book. Each VSL is a separate and distinct book. And a Volume of Sacred Law is just a Masonic term for any religious or philosophical texts displayed in an open lodge.


As a Christian, I believe this to be true.


Physical proximity of one VSL to another provides no implication that they are related or are to be taken as a whole. By your logic, you would never enter a library or bookstore because its varied religious works exist in equal proximity. The only VSL that is consistent throughout Freemasonry is the Holy Bible.


That's right. And generally speaking, I consider every man to be a brother of sorts. After all, regardless of our chosen religion, or our inherited race, we are all descended from Adam

The Multiple Volumes of Sacred Law are used for teaching masons morality they are used for instruction only given by masonic light, contrary to the one and only absolute truth contained in the Holy Bible.

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

Simply because Christ JESUS is absolute truth and only he is capable of teaching a system of morality.

But what is realy " curious " is why would a Rev. or pastor of a christian church agrue that a system of morality should not match up point-by-point with the christian religion.... very curious

Can you please show how just Freemasonry's teachings of morality differ from Christian teachings of morality.

 

[Rev Wayne]

- Forbidding the use of Jesus Christ's name in Lodge prayers.
We've been over this before and shown that, at least in South Carolina, this assertion is not accurate.

It's not accurate anywhere, because even in jurisdictions where Jesus is not used, it is not because it is "forbidden." It's the same principle that is employed in civic settings, where many municipalities have guidelines for public prayer for situations in which, whether potentially or actually, gatherings could be interfaith in nature. It's the same principle that was employed at the hospital at which I did my CPE (Clinical Pastoral Education), when we entered into agreement that as we as chaplains took our individual turns at conducting prayer over the all-hospital intercom channel, we would not offer prayers with any religion-specific terms, including "names for God," or "in Jesus' name." In such situations, it's simply a matter of common courtesy.

I find it odd that with the higher standards to which Jesus calls us as Christians, that members of other religions have less problem observing such a simple matter of respect for others, than do some members of the Christian faith. We ARE told, after all, to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Respectiing another person's religion does not constitute agreement with it, which is the only possible justification I could imagine anyone offering for intentionally dissing another person's religious beliefs.