Amillenial Baptists?

[General Mung Beans]

Are there any amillenial Baptists?

 

[AnthonyB]

Hmmm, I presume there must be some.

Don't know if I count, been a member of a Baptist church for 14 years and believe in amillenialism but it is belief I brought from my Church of Christ upbringing and to my knowledge it is not a common belief in my church. (Although I don't know if anyone has ever done a formal survey on differing end times belief.)

I was a home group leader (at the bapo church) for about 6 years, and knowing my veiws would be contentious (one group member appeared to be ready for a theoligical showdown if anyone varied from premil) I didn't press the issue. IMHO it is not a salvation issue so not worth the fighting over. I did point out to them that other Christians had other ideas.

 

[Communion]

I would fall into that category, probably the only one in our congregation though...eschatology is not something I argue much about..

"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble." Jesus

 

[JohnDB]

Yawl have to excuse me...I am a Baptist but...
Can you explain Amillenialism?
And if it is what thought line I am thinking it is do you believe in a final eschaton?

 

[AndOne]

Yes - I'm one....

 

[dodari]

I have the same questions as JohnDB, quoting:

"Yawl have to excuse me...I am a Baptist but...
Can you explain Amillenialism?
And if it is what thought line I am thinking it is do you believe in a final eschaton?"

I must admit I don't exactly understand the brass tacks aspects of how amillenialism is supported, Biblically. Also, how does it("it" being this age, or whatever the term should be) all end, I guess that's how to put it? The "eschaton".

I'm historic premil, basically. In other words, scripturally how does amil fit and work out? I recall that Augustine was amil, which influenced Luther and Calvin, but as an ex-RCC I'm not too big a fan of Augustine.

I'm curious, just haven't been able to grasp the amil view, yet.

 

[JM]

You can see a quick outline of the three major positions here : http://www.christianforums.com/t7499901/

I've recently accepted or admitted the Amillennialism. It was a difficult journey considering the stigma many Baptists attach to the Amil position but I had been moving in toward Amil since I shed Dispensationalism.

A quote below from : Fide-O Blog

Dr. John Walvoord, a dispensational premillennialist, admitted, “Reformed eschatology has been predominantly amillennial. Most if not all of the leaders of the Protestant Reformation were amillennial in their eschatology, following the teachings of Augustine.” (Bibliotheca Sacra, Jan.-Mar., 1951)

Just to name a few Amillenarians and a couple of the many like-minded Postmillers:

Jay Adams
Oswald Allis
Augustine of Hippo
Richard Barcellos
Herman Bavinck
G. K. Beale
Louis Berkhof
G. C. Berkouwer
James P. Boyce
John Calvin
B. H. Carroll
Everett I Carver
Adam Clark
William Cox
John L. Dagg
Mark Dever
J. Ligon Duncan III
David Engelsma
Eusebius of Caesarea
Sinclair Ferguson
John Frame
Richard Gaffin, Jr.
William Grier
Henry Halley
Floyd Hamilton
Hank Hanegraaff
William Hendriksen
Charles Hill
Herschel Hobbs
Anthony Hoekema
Michael Horton
Lee Irons
Dennis Johnson
Martyn Lloyd-Jones
Tim Keller
Simon Kistemaker
Meredith Kline
Abraham Kuyper
Martin Luther
C. J. Mahaney
William Masselink
Phillip Mauro
Edward McDowell
Melancthon
Leon Morris
Edgar Mullins
George L. Murray
Iain Murray
John Murray
J. I. Packer
Albertus Pieters
A. W. Pink
Vern S. Poythress
Richard Pratt
Robert S. Rayburn
Herman Ridderbos
Kim Riddlebarger
Jason E. Robertson
O. Palmer Robertson
William Rutgers
L. R. Shelton
Sam Storms
Robert Strimple
Augustus H. Strong
Ray Summers
Cornelius Van Til
Cornelis Venema
Geerhardus Vos
Samuel Waldron
Bruce Waltke
B. B. Warfield
James White
Knox White
Martin Wyngaarden
E. J. Young
Huldrych Zwingli

Council of Ephesus, 431
Confession of the Evangelical Free Church of Geneva, 1848
The Westminster Confession of Faith, 1647
The London Baptist Confession, 1689
The New Hampshire Baptist Confession, 1833
Confession of the Free-Will Baptist, 1834
The Augsburg Confession

 

[Thaeoles]

I'm one too.

 

[Communion]

You can see a quick outline of the three major positions here : http://www.christianforums.com/t7499901/

I've recently accepted or admitted the Amillennialism. It was a difficult journey considering the stigma many Baptists attach to the Amil position but I had been moving in toward Amil since I shed Dispensationalism.

A quote below from : Fide-O Blog

Dr. John Walvoord, a dispensational premillennialist, admitted, “Reformed eschatology has been predominantly amillennial. Most if not all of the leaders of the Protestant Reformation were amillennial in their eschatology, following the teachings of Augustine.” (Bibliotheca Sacra, Jan.-Mar., 1951)

Just to name a few Amillenarians and a couple of the many like-minded Postmillers:

Jay Adams
Oswald Allis
Augustine of Hippo
Richard Barcellos
Herman Bavinck
G. K. Beale
Louis Berkhof
G. C. Berkouwer
James P. Boyce
John Calvin
B. H. Carroll
Everett I Carver
Adam Clark
William Cox
John L. Dagg
Mark Dever
J. Ligon Duncan III
David Engelsma
Eusebius of Caesarea
Sinclair Ferguson
John Frame
Richard Gaffin, Jr.
William Grier
Henry Halley
Floyd Hamilton
Hank Hanegraaff
William Hendriksen
Charles Hill
Herschel Hobbs
Anthony Hoekema
Michael Horton
Lee Irons
Dennis Johnson
Martyn Lloyd-Jones
Tim Keller
Simon Kistemaker
Meredith Kline
Abraham Kuyper
Martin Luther
C. J. Mahaney
William Masselink
Phillip Mauro
Edward McDowell
Melancthon
Leon Morris
Edgar Mullins
George L. Murray
Iain Murray
John Murray
J. I. Packer
Albertus Pieters
A. W. Pink
Vern S. Poythress
Richard Pratt
Robert S. Rayburn
Herman Ridderbos
Kim Riddlebarger
Jason E. Robertson
O. Palmer Robertson
William Rutgers
L. R. Shelton
Sam Storms
Robert Strimple
Augustus H. Strong
Ray Summers
Cornelius Van Til
Cornelis Venema
Geerhardus Vos
Samuel Waldron
Bruce Waltke
B. B. Warfield
James White
Knox White
Martin Wyngaarden
E. J. Young
Huldrych Zwingli

Council of Ephesus, 431
Confession of the Evangelical Free Church of Geneva, 1848
The Westminster Confession of Faith, 1647
The London Baptist Confession, 1689
The New Hampshire Baptist Confession, 1833
Confession of the Free-Will Baptist, 1834
The Augsburg Confession

You could add a boatload of Catholics to the list too...at the end of the day it is the most accepted eschatological view...though I wouldn't be disappointed if things happened in a premil/pretrib manner either

 

[Pete_Martinez]

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology is amillenialism.

 

[JM]

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology is amillenialism.

I used to think that.

 

[Hentenza]

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology is amillenialism.

That's true.

 

[Pete_Martinez]

I used to think that.

Well, Calvin also believed in using the power of the state to have people go to church. I don't blame him for thinking that way. That's the way he was raised and that was the only way he knew things ran. It's similar to how we view the New Testament with modern American eyes.

I know we seem to be butting heads on everything lately as far as viewpoints go. I think it's good to get our viewpoints challenged from time to time, iron sharpens iron. It'll let us know where we stand strong and where we have our weaknesses.

 

[JM]

Well, Calvin also believed in using the power of the state to have people go to church. I don't blame him for thinking that way. That's the way he was raised and that was the only way he knew things ran. It's similar to how we view the New Testament with modern American eyes.

In that case the modern evangelical default position would be Premil Dispensationalism.

 

[LargeTrout]

Hank Hanegraaff

I've read The Apocalypse Code and it seems Hank is a partial preterist.

 

[JM]

Amillennialism is a position taken on the millennium while Preterism deals with the events prophecied in the New Testament ex. Temple destroyed in 70 AD.

If one is a Preterists they can hold to Amil or Postmil.

 

[Communion]

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology is amillenialism.

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology to believe in the trinity.

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology is to believe in the incarnation.

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology is to believe in the virgin birth.

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology is to believe in the resurrection.

....your point?

 

[Hentenza]

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology to believe in the trinity.

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology is to believe in the incarnation.

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology is to believe in the virgin birth.

Considering that many of the reformers had a catholic background it is not surprising that the default position of reformed theology is to believe in the resurrection.

....your point?

The Trinity, incarnation, virgin birth, and resurrection are biblical literal truths. Ammelianism, on the other hand, is biblical allegory. The early church held a pre mil position. It only change to amil as Rome and the pope began to gain positional power.

 

[LargeTrout]

The Trinity, incarnation, virgin birth, and resurrection are biblical literal truths. Ammelianism, on the other hand, is biblical allegory. The early church held a pre mil position. It only change to amil as Rome and the pope began to gain positional power.

The early church, including Jesus' own disciples, believed in the imminent return of Jesus. They were living under heavy persecution from Rome; in their eyes it was the last days. The Gospel was being preached everywhere, just like Jesus predicted; the church was being persecuted, just like Jesus predicted; Jerusalem and the Temple had been destroyed, just like Jesus predicted. All that was left, as far as the early church was concerned, was for Jesus to appear.

Therefore, the end time eschatology of the early church would have been one of imminence. It's only when it appeared that Jesus was delaying did end times theology start to change; as the years, decades and centuries went by the church started to make up new things like "amillennialism" and "premillennialism" and "postmillennialism" to try and untangle the mess that is end times prophecy.

 

[DD2008]

The Trinity, incarnation, virgin birth, and resurrection are biblical literal truths. Ammelianism, on the other hand, is biblical allegory. The early church held a pre mil position. It only change to amil as Rome and the pope began to gain positional power.

It took me a while to see that but it is true. Amillenialism is full of ecclesiology as well. And is used to try to uphold the theory of replacement theology.