Who did away with the law?

[JohnRabbit]

Dont tell me, the ten commandments right??
That not gospel friend, that's flim flam.

flim flam, you say?

not gospel, interesting indeed.

Cribstyl, look with your heart on this subject and not necessarily with your mind (i mean your present view).

the only thing God wrote himself that we know of is the ten commandments.

the significance of that act is enormous!

He gave us His law Himself! (ex. 24)

so, yes, i do believe that law going out from zion will be the ten commandments of the Lord our God.

it will be the law of the millienium.

it is the law that shows love toward God (the first four) and love toward neighbor (the last six).

being a spiritual law means it takes no physical labor to accomplish. it takes no physical labor for me to love you!

now let's take a look at that. if i love you, then my acctions should demonstrate. (i know there may be tension between you and me now), but you know what i'm saying.

let's say you need 300 dollars for a car note and i, out of love, give you the money to pay the debt. that is a good work. the christian ought to be doing things like that out of love.

we should be walking by the principles of the ten commandments to its spiritual intent. matt 5

then, we can produce the fruits of the spirit spoken about in gal 5:22 and all of this is possible because we have help, the Holy Spirit! gal 2:20

Christ was able to live by the ten commandments and He can do the same for us through the Spirit that abides in us.

but,

Romans 3:27-28 ( KJV ) 27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

it ultimately comes down to belief, but, we don't kick the law to the curb.

we do have to believe that He is and He is able and that the Christ is the Son of God who gave His life for us.

however,

Romans 3:30-31 ( NKJV ) 30since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

es·tab·lish (from dictionary.com)
–verb (used with object)
1. to found, institute, build, or bring into being on a firm or stable basis: to establish a university; to establish a Medical practice.
2. to install or settle in a position, place, business, etc.: to establish one's child in business.
3. to show to be valid or true; prove: to establish the facts of the matter.
4. to cause to be accepted or recognized: to establish a custom; She established herself as a leading surgeon.
5. to bring about permanently: to establish order.
6. to enact, appoint, or ordain for permanence, as a law; fix unalterably.
7. to make (a church) a national or state institution.
8. Cards . to obtain control of (a suit) so that one can win all the subsequent tricks in it.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Me too!

i know you don't get it.

aren't you the one who finally admitted that the law still exists?

 

[JohnRabbit]

John, you forgot to mention that verse 25 also shows Paul serving the law of sin. Misrepresenting a passage of Scripture by omission as you do is promoting a lie.

so, why don't you define both of the laws he is talking about, even though you say the law is abolished.

 

[visionary]

Who would try to change the laws?

Daniel 7:25
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.

 

[VictorC]

so, why don't you define both of the laws he is talking about, even though you say the law is abolished.

Why didn't you? After all, I'm not the one writing your posts, and you can't expect me to accept responsibility for your misrepresentations of Scripture. Which observance was done in the flesh as opposed to the mind? It is actions performed in the flesh that transgress the covenant from Mount Sinai.

 

[VictorC]

however,

Romans 3:30-31 ( NKJV ) 30since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Since you're favorable to post numbers, you should review post #23 in this thread. The opening premise based on Romans 3:31 was silenced a very long time ago.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Why didn't you? After all, I'm not the one writing your posts, and you can't expect me to accept responsibility for your misrepresentations of Scripture. Which observance was done in the flesh as opposed to the mind? It is actions performed in the flesh that transgress the covenant from Mount Sinai.

why can't you just answer a simple question instead of bloviating?

and who doesn't know that it was actions, come on Vic.

 

[VictorC]

why can't you just answer a simple question instead of bloviating?

and who doesn't know that it was actions, come on Vic.

You admit that Paul confessed his serving the law of sin, as did he. I think that response is sufficient to refute your previous contention made in contradiction to this.

 

[visionary]

How is trying to change the law, wearing the saints out?

 

[JohnRabbit]

You admit that Paul confessed his serving the law of sin, as did he. I think that response is sufficient to refute your previous contention made in contradiction to this.

Vic, what do you mean i confess, that's what he wrote!

bottomline again, why is paul talking about serving law, when you say that the law was abolished and that would include the law of sin (which is simply lawlessness).

so, since the law is abolished then, there is no law, and we are free to do whatever we want.

but paul talks about a law of faith, wait a minute, that can't exist either, because i have to remember that the law was one and gotten rid of as one.

wow, it's mind blowing.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How is trying to change the law, wearing the saints out?

Great question?
Would make for an interesting thread

 

[JohnRabbit]

Great question?
Would make for an interesting thread

i think so too!

 

[JohnRabbit]

Since you're favorable to post numbers, you should review post #23 in this thread. The opening premise based on Romans 3:31 was silenced a very long time ago.

well i think my post #456 addresses your post #23.

maybe silenced in your mind, but i diagree with you!

you're so willing not to see that the law and faith go hand and hand.

that's basically what the verse is saying!

 

[VictorC]

Vic, what do you mean i confess, that's what he wrote!

I know what Paul wrote - your contention was that Paul served the law without regard for his own admission that he violated the covenant from Mount Sinai.

bottomline again, why is paul talking about serving law, when you say that the law was abolished and that would include the law of sin (which is simply lawlessness).

so, since the law is abolished then, there is no law, and we are free to do whatever we want.

but paul talks about a law of faith, wait a minute, that can't exist either, because i have to remember that the law was one and gotten rid of as one.

wow, it's mind blowing.

You're describing three disparate legal entities as one. It is the covenant law mediated by Moses that was called "one law" in Numbers 15:16 and elsewhere in the law itself. The children of Israel were bound to the entire 613 mitzvot that stood as a unit. The point you raise refutes your contention that only a portion of the covenant was nailed to the cross. Take the sabbath, for example - the ordinances governing the sabbath are spread out in so many places in the law that I can't quote all the locations they appear. Nailing anything at all brings the sabbath to an end.

 

[VictorC]

well i think my post #456 addresses your post #23.

Perhaps you should read #456 again - there is no relation.

maybe silenced in your mind, but i diagree with you!

you're so willing not to see that the law and faith go hand and hand.

that's basically what the verse is saying!

Yet you don't address the quote the author makes from Genesis 15:6 to identify the law that he establishes. It is the Genesis record that the verse addresses, not some nebulous notion of the law and faith going hand in hand. It is evident that you didn't read post #23.

 

[Frogster]

Vic, what do you mean i confess, that's what he wrote!

bottomline again, why is paul talking about serving law, when you say that the law was abolished and that would include the law of sin (which is simply lawlessness).

so, since the law is abolished then, there is no law, and we are free to do whatever we want.

Not at all bro, that is a common misconception that Paul answered when others who misunderstood grace challenged his law free gospel. He raised the question, and then answered.


Rom 6;15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

but paul talks about a law of faith, wait a minute, that can't exist either, because i have to remember that the law was one and gotten rid of as one.

wow, it's mind blowing.

No..a law of faith is a principle in Rom 3:27, law has several meanings. Mosaic, the whole of the OT, or a principle.

However the context dictates that in Gal 3:2, he was saying Mosaic law was not of faith.

Thanks, frogster.

 

[bugkiller]

Vic, what do you mean i confess, that's what he wrote!

bottomline again, why is paul talking about serving law, when you say that the law was abolished and that would include the law of sin (which is simply lawlessness).

so, since the law is abolished then, there is no law, and we are free to do whatever we want.

but paul talks about a law of faith, wait a minute, that can't exist either, because i have to remember that the law was one and gotten rid of as one.

wow, it's mind blowing.

Wondered what was wrong with your mind. Now we know by confession.

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

You mind posting that claim(s) from scripture plz?

It was in the OT all along, that is why in later chapter 4, Paul showed justification by faith, by the example in the Scripture, of Abraham. It was in the OT all along..

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—


Also we have this, from the law and Prophets, that spoke of what was to come.


Rom 1:2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures,


This is Hab 2:4

Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

 

[Cribstyl]

You mind posting that claim(s) from scripture plz?

Thanks Frogster you're on point...

By NT making this claim in Romans 3, it prove that Matt 5:16-19 shows that change was written into the law.
ESV - Rom 3:21 -But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—


Here in this book of the law, Moses said a prophet would come and His words needs to be obeyed
Deut 18:15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.
16 For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.”
17The Lord said to me: “What they say is good.
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.


Here in the book of Jeremiah change in covenants is prophesied.

Jer 31:31¶Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

 

[Frogster]

Thanks Frogster you're on point...

By NT making this claim in Romans 3, it prove that Matt 5:16-19 shows that change was written into the law.
ESV - Rom 3:21 -But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—


Here in this book of the law, Moses said a prophet would come and His words needs to be obeyed
Deut 18:15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.
16 For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.”
17The Lord said to me: “What they say is good.
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.


Here in the book of Jeremiah change in covenants is prophesied.

Jer 31:31¶Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Good stuff..

Aloooong time ago!


8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”