Who did away with the law?

[Frogster]

Since none of you know the answer. Baptism! That is how Paul died to the law. Baptism is symbolic of death.

Romans 7:4 "You are died to the law."

You weren't married to the law, like some try to say, your were married to sin.

The only symbolic act, in Christianity, that depicts the Christian dying is baptism.

Are you admitting he died to the law? Crucifixion is not baptism.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I am still finding it hard to get around the fact that Paul had to die to a law that was non-existent, abolished even.

 

[Frogster]

I don't think you even listen to yourself.

bugkiller

[/QUOTE]

 

[VictorC]

i know, for all to see, except you apparently.

in your zeal to hate the law, you can't see the truth in these verses.

Zeal to hate the law? Is your answer only an attack on the person who I believe is faithful to the Gospel?

you said, "she is free from that law", quoting verse 3 in romans 7.

review Romans 7:3:

So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.​

"She" is bound to her first husband (the law) as long as the first husband lives. "She" cannot marry a second husband (Jesus Christ) until the first husband (the law) is dead, or else "she" is committing adultery.

What has to happen to the first husband again?

you see, law haters think that means free from obeying the ten commandments.

But you're content to continue in adultery, and claim that this is compliance with the covenant from Mount Sinai. Nope, I don't think so.

i know law haters won't answer, so i'll answer for you.

Why do you disparage the Gospel of Christ's redemption by claiming God's adopted children are "law haters"?

she would break the commandment and incur the death penalty!

And how do you plan on escaping your death penalty for adultery, which violates the entire covenant?

 

[Frogster]

I am still finding it hard to get around the fact that Paul had to die to a law that was non-existent, abolished even.

Oh please...through the body of Christ, move on already.

 

[VictorC]

I am still finding it hard to get around the fact that Paul had to die to a law that was non-existent, abolished even.

Some passages use the terminology that we have died to the law, meaning we're not affected by it anymore, and other passages show the law is either obsolete or abolished, depending on the English translation used. The author selected differing phrases to show that the law has lost jurisdiction over us, which becomes a fait accompli in either case.

 

[bugkiller]

i read what VictorC wrote in responece to this post, and his response, to me, was weak at best!

So personal attack is your best defense to a weak response. amazing!

bugkiller

 

[YosemiteSam]

Just out of curiousity, are u a MJ or a SDA?

He is neither.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Zeal to hate the law? Is your answer only an attack on the person who I believe is faithful to the Gospel?

i was just using a tactic a friend of mine used on me, hit upside the head with a stick, to wake up an individual.

review Romans 7:3:

So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
​

"She" is bound to her first husband (the law) as long as the first husband lives. "She" cannot marry a second husband (Jesus Christ) until the first husband (the law) is dead, or else "she" is committing adultery.

not what the verse said. said nothing about the law dying. this is what i'm talking about "the word according to VictorC".
gotta be careful how you read the bible!

Romans 7:2 ( NKJV ) 2For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.

see? the husband died not the law.

What has to happen to the first husband again?

the verse says he died. (i'm amazed that you missed that one)

so, adam and eve were not bound by the marriage law?

 

[JohnRabbit]

Since none of you know the answer. Baptism! That is how Paul died to the law. Baptism is symbolic of death.

Romans 7:4 "You are died to the law."

You weren't married to the law, like some try to say, your were married to sin.

The only symbolic act, in Christianity, that depicts the Christian dying is baptism.

i see, YosemiteSam, answered the question for me, thanks guy.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Frogster,

like YosemiteSam said, i am neither MJ nor SDA.

 

[VictorC]

Zeal to hate the law? Is your answer only an attack on the person who I believe is faithful to the Gospel?

i was just using a tactic a friend of mine used on me, hit upside the head with a stick, to wake up an individual.

You're still asleep, as you will see in a moment.

review Romans 7:3:

So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

"She" is bound to her first husband (the law) as long as the first husband lives. "She" cannot marry a second husband (Jesus Christ) until the first husband (the law) is dead, or else "she" is committing adultery.

not what the verse said. said nothing about the law dying. this is what i'm talking about "the word according to VictorC".
gotta be careful how you read the bible!

Later in this post, you contradict yourself.

Romans 7:2 ( NKJV ) 2For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.

see? the husband died not the law.

The first husband is the law.

What has to happen to the first husband again?

the verse says he died. (i'm amazed that you missed that one)

Not "he", but rather "it" - as you state correctly, the law has to die before you can be married to another husband, Jesus Christ. If the law hasn't lost its claim on you, marrying another husband causes you to commit adultery. So far your testimony is that of someone committed to continued adultery, and you have violated the first covenant by your transgression. You left my final question unanswered: how do you plan on escaping your death penalty for adultery, which violates the entire covenant?

so, adam and eve were not bound by the marriage law?

Romans 7 has no relevance to Adam and Eve at all. Moreover, you have failed to establish the law's existence 2500 years before Moses testified it existed.

 

[VictorC]

JohnRabbit, this has been bumped up repeatedly for your acknowledgement, and common courtesy dictates that you should.

again, the word according to VictorC.

Direct quotes were furnished in many cases that show:

• The ten commandments was the covenant from Mount Sinai.
• We are not bound to that covenant that we have been delivered from and instructed to cast away.

bottom line is that adam and eve were married and there was a law that bound them together.

you know it and i know it and anyone who can read can see it for themselves!

Provide evidence for this alleged law, chapter and verse. Your misuse of Romans 7 addresses the law mediated by Moses, and it was used by the original author to show that a claim of belonging to both the law and to Jesus Christ is adultery.

 

[Hentenza]

i know, for all to see, except you apparently.

in your zeal to hate the law, you can't see the truth in these verses.

you said, "she is free from that law", quoting verse 3 in romans 7.

you see, law haters think that means free from obeying the ten commandments.

now had you kept reading, like you told me, you would have noticed the next part of the verse.

"so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man."

now what would happen if she were an adulteress?

i know law haters won't answer, so i'll answer for you.

she would break the commandment and incur the death penalty!

she is free from the penalty of the law, remember (rom 6:23)?

just like the christian is free from that penalty of the law by accepting the sacrifice of the Christ.

I am trying to understand you train of thought since it seems contradictory. I highlighted 2 sentences in your post. In the first you claim that if she broke the commandment she would incur the death penalty, however, in the last sentence you claim that a Christian is free from the penalty of the law. So, if she is a Christian, then it follows that she is free from the penalty of the law and consequently, will not incur the death penalty. So, which one is it?

 

[JohnRabbit]

You're still asleep, as you will see in a moment.

Later in this post, you contradict yourself.

The first husband is the law.

Not "he", but rather "it" - as you state correctly, the law has to die before you can be married to another husband, Jesus Christ. If the law hasn't lost its claim on you, marrying another husband causes you to commit adultery. So far your testimony is that of someone committed to continued adultery, and you have violated the first covenant by your transgression. You left my final question unanswered: how do you plan on escaping your death penalty for adultery, which violates the entire covenant?

Romans 7 has no relevance to Adam and Eve at all. Moreover, you have failed to establish the law's existence 2500 years before Moses testified it existed.

i really do admire what you bring to the table VictorC, because i am convinced that you know a lot about the scriptures. we go back and forth on these subjects, and i know in my heart that you love the lord with all your heart.

with that said, i still have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, because verse 4 of romans seven tells me who has to die and verse 6 surely sounds like baptism to me.

the law lost it's claim as stated in verse 3 which states that the "husband died" and that's what freed the wife from the penalty of adultery. that's what the verse says and there's no way to parse that imo.

Romans 7:13-14 ( NKJV ) 13Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

paul answers your question if you care to believe what he says. it wasn't the law but sin that was producing death, paul says so.

the only way i know for the christian to die to the law, and notice the person dies and not the law, is to be baptized!

baptism is the symbolic act that shows a person put away the sinful self, and starting over as a new creation!

i'm one who is not going to throw the ten commandments under the bus.

Romans 7:7 ( NKJV ) 7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

so this question you posed:

how do you plan on escaping your death penalty for adultery, which violates the entire covenant?

Acts 2:38 ( NKJV ) 38Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

i still have to disagree with you about the adam and eve deal, they were married and i know that there was a law that bound them together.

i told you one time before, i am not going for "the banana in the tailpipe", you can, but i simply won't go there.

 

[JohnRabbit]

I am trying to understand you train of thought since it seems contradictory. I highlighted 2 sentences in your post. In the first you claim that if she broke the commandment she would incur the death penalty, however, in the last sentence you claim that a Christian is free from the penalty of the law. So, if she is a Christian, then it follows that she is free from the penalty of the law and consequently, will not incur the death penalty. So, which one is it?

if you sin, you incur the death penalty, but if one accepts the sacrifice of the Christ per acts 2:38, then the death penalty has been paid for you.

this is basically what paul was saying in his marriage analogy in rom 7.

it's the way you perceive the law that makes it hard for you to understand. (imho)

 

[Cribstyl]

i really do admire what you bring to the table VictorC, because i am convinced that you know a lot about the scriptures. we go back and forth on these subjects, and i know in my heart that you love the lord with all your heart.

with that said, i still have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, because verse 4 of romans seven tells me who has to die and verse 6 surely sounds like baptism to me.

the law lost it's claim as stated in verse 3 which states that the "husband died" and that's what freed the wife from the penalty of adultery. that's what the verse says and there's no way to parse that imo.

Rom 7:1Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? Rom 7:2For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.
Rom 7:3Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
Rom 7:4Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.
Rom 7:5For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.
Rom 7:6But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

You have reasons to ignor the lesson about a marriage to the law.
..You have died to the law,

...we are released from the law.

Romans 7:13-14 ( NKJV ) 13Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

paul answers your question if you care to believe what he says. it wasn't the law but sin that was producing death, paul says so.

the only way i know for the christian to die to the law, and notice the person dies and not the law, is to be baptized!

baptism is the symbolic act that shows a person put away the sinful self, and starting over as a new creation!

i'm one who is not going to throw the ten commandments under the bus.

Romans 7:7 ( NKJV ) 7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

so this question you posed:

how do you plan on escaping your death penalty for adultery, which violates the entire covenant?

Acts 2:38 ( NKJV ) 38Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

i still have to disagree with you about the adam and eve deal, they were married and i know that there was a law that bound them together.

i told you one time before, i am not going for "the banana in the tailpipe", you can, but i simply won't go there.

The rest of your study and response is obviously useless.

 

[Frogster]

i really do admire what you bring to the table VictorC, because i am convinced that you know a lot about the scriptures. we go back and forth on these subjects, and i know in my heart that you love the lord with all your heart.

with that said, i still have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, because verse 4 of romans seven tells me who has to die and verse 6 surely sounds like baptism to me.

the law lost it's claim as stated in verse 3 which states that the "husband died" and that's what freed the wife from the penalty of adultery. that's what the verse says and there's no way to parse that imo.

Romans 7:13-14 ( NKJV ) 13Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

paul answers your question if you care to believe what he says. it wasn't the law but sin that was producing death, paul says so.

the only way i know for the christian to die to the law, and notice the person dies and not the law, is to be baptized!

baptism is the symbolic act that shows a person put away the sinful self, and starting over as a new creation!

i'm one who is not going to throw the ten commandments under the bus.

Romans 7:7 ( NKJV ) 7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

so this question you posed:

how do you plan on escaping your death penalty for adultery, which violates the entire covenant?

Acts 2:38 ( NKJV ) 38Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

i still have to disagree with you about the adam and eve deal, they were married and i know that there was a law that bound them together.

i told you one time before, i am not going for "the banana in the tailpipe", you can, but i simply won't go there.

We died through the cross, he died there, not in the tomb.

Your avoiding the whole obvious truth to the illustration, fixating on baptism. No offense.

The whole point is he died to the law, look at the following verse. What was he released from?


6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. [3]

Look here..where does it say it was abolished?


Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

Jesus took it to the tree. And it was the law there, or how else could all our sins be forgiven, as per the prior verse?

Col 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.


Frogster.

 

[Frogster]

if you sin, you incur the death penalty, but if one accepts the sacrifice of the Christ per acts 2:38, then the death penalty has been paid for you.

this is basically what paul was saying in his marriage analogy in rom 7.

it's the way you perceive the law that makes it hard for you to understand. (imho)

It has been paid, like you say,..Gal 3;13.

Then why rebuild the system that created the debt all over again? That would not make sense.

18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.

Here is Rom 7:4 clealry said..not even an illustration, straight up..

Gal 2:19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Well I don't neccesarily agree with that have you read the commentary of Martin Luther or matthew henry?

Here is what Henry had to say about Matthew 5:17-20:

Let none suppose that Christ allows his people to trifle with any commands of God's holy law. No sinner partakes of Christ's justifying righteousness, till he repents of his evil deeds. The mercy revealed in the gospel leads the believer to still deeper self-abhorrence. The law is the Christian's rule of duty, and he delights therein. If a man, pretending to be Christ's disciple, encourages himself in any allowed disobedience to the holy law of God, or teaches others to do the same, whatever his station or reputation among men may be, he can be no true disciple. Christ's righteousness, imputed to us by faith alone, is needed by every one that enters the kingdom of grace or of glory; but the new creation of the heart to holiness, produces a thorough change in a man's temper and conduct.