Scriptural Evidence That Hell Might Not Be Eternal

[RDJ]

Do you think these verses suggest that Hell might not be eternal?

2 Peter 2:4 "For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell* and committed them to chains** of deepest darkness to be kept until the judgement."
*Greek, Tartaros
In Classic Mythology, Tartaros (usually spelled Tartarus) is a place deep inside the earth that is a gloomy pit used as a dungeon of torment and suffering.
**Other ancient authorities read "pits"
Revelation 20:12-15 "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire, and anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."
These verses and notes are from the King James Bible.

 

[Bible2]

RDJ asked:

Do you think these verses suggest that Hell might not be eternal?

2 Peter 2:4 and Revelation 20:14 refer only to the temporary tormenting hell of Hades (Luke 16:23), not to the subsequent, eternally tormenting hell of Gehenna (Luke 12:5, Mark 9:45-46), also called the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 14:10-11).

 

[zeke37]

the eternal punishment is nothingness forever and ever and ever and ever and ever etc

 

[Mr Dave]

2 Peter 2:4 and Revelation 20:14 refer only to the temporary tormenting hell of Hades (Luke 16:23), not to the subsequent, eternally tormenting hell of Gehenna (Luke 12:5, Mark 9:45-46)

What's eternally tormenting about Gehenna, the place of the unquenchable fire?

Unquenchable does not mean that the fire is eternal (or everlasting), but that it is not possible to actually put it out. It is the place where the fire cannot be put out not where the fire cannot go out (when the fuel runs out).

Cue the heretic points

 

[Studious One]

I listened to a sermon on hell a couple nights ago. The speaker gave a good illustration.

Hades is like the local jail where one goes when one is arrested for a bad crime. In the local jail, he awaits his sentencing (judgment day). Once he is sentenced, he then is sentenced to geenna (the penitentiary) to serve his sentence.

The big difference is that once one is put in geenna, (the lake of fire) unlike a penitentiary, one never escapes nor is one ever released.

The sermon was from back in the 70's by Jack Van Impe, and the name of the sermon was Hell Without Hell.

 

[Bible2]

Mr Dave asked:

What's eternally tormenting about Gehenna, the place of the unquenchable fire?

What's eternally tormenting about the hell of Gehenna is the fire eternally burning the body and the worms eternally eating the body (Mark 9:46, Isaiah 66:24). It should be noted that the bodies of the unsaved in Gehenna need not be natural bodies like we have now, which don't regenerate themselves when they're burned or eaten. For before the unsaved are cast into Gehenna (also called the lake of fire) they will all be resurrected (Revelation 20:12-15), and so they could all be given a new type of resurrection body which will eternally regenerate itself whenever part of it is burned or eaten in Gehenna. But then the regenerated part will subsequently be burned or eaten again, only to regenerate again, only to be burned or eaten again, and so on, forever: An eternal torment (Revelation 14:10-11, Isaiah 66:24).

Mr Dave said:

Unquenchable does not mean that the fire is eternal (or everlasting), but that it is not possible to actually put it out.

The fire of Gehenna must be eternal because the torment of Gehenna is eternal (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11).

Mr Dave said:

It is the place where the fire cannot be put out not where the fire cannot go out (when the fuel runs out).

In Gehenna the fire won't ever go out (Mark 9:46, Isaiah 66:24); it will never run out of fuel, but will continue to torment the unsaved forever (Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Matthew 25:41,46). The fact that the fire will already be burning before the resurrection bodies of the unsaved are cast into it (Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15) means that the bodies of the unsaved aren't the fuel for the fire. The fire will have its own source of fuel by which it will burn and torment the unsaved forever.

 

[Studious One]

What's eternally tormenting about the hell of Gehenna is the fire eternally burning the body and the worms eternally eating the body (Mark 9:46, Isaiah 66:24). It should be noted that the bodies of the unsaved in Gehenna need not be natural bodies like we have now, which don't regenerate themselves when they're burned or eaten. For before the unsaved are cast into Gehenna (also called the lake of fire) they will all be resurrected (Revelation 20:12-15), and so they could all be given a new type of resurrection body which will eternally regenerate itself whenever part of it is burned or eaten in Gehenna. But then the regenerated part will subsequently be burned or eaten again, only to regenerate again, only to be burned or eaten again, and so on, forever: An eternal torment (Revelation 14:10-11, Isaiah 66:24).



The fire of Gehenna must be eternal because the torment of Gehenna is eternal (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11).



In Gehenna the fire won't ever go out (Mark 9:46, Isaiah 66:24); it will never run out of fuel, but will continue to torment the unsaved forever (Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Matthew 25:41,46). The fact that the fire will already be burning before the resurrection bodies of the unsaved are cast into it (Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15) means that the bodies of the unsaved aren't the fuel for the fire. The fire will have its own source of fuel by which it will burn and torment the unsaved forever.

Death and hell are cast into the lake of fire prior to the unsaved being cast in. And Scripture declares that the last enemy to be destroyed is death. So the souls assigned to geenna will not die for death has already been destroyed before they are cast into geenna.

 

[Jig]

This is your problem.

 

[Tavita]

I listened to a sermon on hell a couple nights ago. The speaker gave a good illustration.

Hades is like the local jail where one goes when one is arrested for a bad crime. In the local jail, he awaits his sentencing (judgment day). Once he is sentenced, he then is sentenced to geenna (the penitentiary) to serve his sentence.

The big difference is that once one is put in geenna, (the lake of fire) unlike a penitentiary, one never escapes nor is one ever released.

The sermon was from back in the 70's by Jack Van Impe, and the name of the sermon was Hell Without Hell.

Sounds like a sermon about Greek mythology to me...

 

[98cwitr]

why the new thread? Can't we beat this dead horse in the other one?

 

[Studious One]

Sounds like a sermon about Greek mythology to me...

Definitely not Greek Mythology. Sheol, geenna, and hades are all Bible terms.

 

[Timothew]

Definitely not Greek Mythology. Sheol, geenna, and hades are all Bible terms.

Are you being serious? Yes, these are Bible terms, but the Bible was not written in a vacuum.

Check out Hades on wikipedia:

Hades (Άδης or Ἀΐδας; from Greek ᾍδης, Hadēs, originally Ἅιδης, Haidēs or Άΐδης, Aidēs, meaning "the unseen"[1][2]) refers both to the ancient Greek underworld, the abode of Hades, and to the god of the underworld. Hades in Homer referred just to the god; the genitive ᾍδου, Haidou, was an elision to denote locality: "[the house/dominion] of Hades". Eventually, the nominative, too, came to designate the abode of the dead.
In Greek mythology, Hades is the oldest male child of Cronus and Rhea. According to myth he and his brothers Zeus and Poseidon defeated the Titans and claimed rulership over the universe ruling the underworld, air, and sea, respectively; the solid earth, long the province of Gaia, was available to all three concurrently. Because of his association with the underworld, Hades is often interpreted in modern times as the Grim Reaper, even though he was not.
By the Romans Hades was called Pluto, from his Greek epithet Πλούτων Ploutōn (πλοῦτος, wealth), meaning "Rich One". In Roman mythology, Hades/Pluto was called Dis Pater and Orcus. The corresponding Etruscan god was Aita. Symbols associated with him are the Helm of Darkness and the three-headed dog, Cerberus.
The term hades in Christian theology (and in New Testament Greek) is parallel to Hebrew sheol (שאול, grave or dirt-pit), and refers to the abode of the dead. The Christian concept of hell is more akin to (and communicated by) the Greek concept of Tartarus, a deep, gloomy part of hades used as a dungeon of torment and suffering.

Tim

 

[Studious One]

Are you being serious? Yes, these are Bible terms, but the Bible was not written in a vacuum.

Check out Hades on wikipedia:

Hades (Άδης or Ἀΐδας; from Greek ᾍδης, Hadēs, originally Ἅιδης, Haidēs or Άΐδης, Aidēs, meaning "the unseen"[1][2]) refers both to the ancient Greek underworld, the abode of Hades, and to the god of the underworld. Hades in Homer referred just to the god; the genitive ᾍδου, Haidou, was an elision to denote locality: "[the house/dominion] of Hades". Eventually, the nominative, too, came to designate the abode of the dead.
In Greek mythology, Hades is the oldest male child of Cronus and Rhea. According to myth he and his brothers Zeus and Poseidon defeated the Titans and claimed rulership over the universe ruling the underworld, air, and sea, respectively; the solid earth, long the province of Gaia, was available to all three concurrently. Because of his association with the underworld, Hades is often interpreted in modern times as the Grim Reaper, even though he was not.
By the Romans Hades was called Pluto, from his Greek epithet Πλούτων Ploutōn (πλοῦτος, wealth), meaning "Rich One". In Roman mythology, Hades/Pluto was called Dis Pater and Orcus. The corresponding Etruscan god was Aita. Symbols associated with him are the Helm of Darkness and the three-headed dog, Cerberus.
The term hades in Christian theology (and in New Testament Greek) is parallel to Hebrew sheol (שאול, grave or dirt-pit), and refers to the abode of the dead. The Christian concept of hell is more akin to (and communicated by) the Greek concept of Tartarus, a deep, gloomy part of hades used as a dungeon of torment and suffering.

Tim

Wikipedia is not to be held above the Word of God. That is blasphemy.

The Word of God teaches eternal torment in the lake of fire for the unsaved. God will one day bring that to pass.

 

[Mr Dave]

Wikipedia is not to be held above the Word of God. That is blasphemy.

The Word of God teaches eternal torment in the lake of fire for the unsaved. God will one day bring that to pass.

What's that got to do with Tim's post?

 

[Timothew]

Wikipedia is not to be held above the Word of God. That is blasphemy.

The Word of God teaches eternal torment in the lake of fire for the unsaved. God will one day bring that to pass.

That's cool. Is there a reference in the Word of God that says this?

In my Bible it says that the one who sows to please his sinful nature will reap destruction (Note: Not Torture); the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

So you do not believe that the ancient greeks used the word Hades to describe one of their gods and sometimes used hades to refer to the place that they believed the human spirit goes after death. It's quite OK with me if you do not wish to believe the pagan greeks used the word this way. You might want to check it out.

Homer, Iliad 1. 3 ff (trans. Lattimore) (Greek epic C8th B.C.) :
"The Akhaians hurled in their multitudes to the house of Hades, strong souls of heroes."

Homer, Iliad 7. 328 ff :
"Many flowing-haired Akhaians have died here, whose dark blood has been scattered . . . by fierce Ares (the war god), while their souls went down into the house of Aides."

Homer, Iliad 22. 52 ff :
"They are dead already and gone down to the house of Aides (Aïdao domoisin)."

But, once again, I do not care what you believe.

Tim

 

[Aimiel]

But, once again, I do not care what you believe.

Even someone who's pretending to be Christian might know better than to say such a selfish thing. As a Christian, I care what everyone believes, from Jesus all the way to the one soul who is closest to entering hell right now. I care because I want to know what beliefs are right. I care because I want to be able to present Christ in the best light I can muster, to attempt to preach His Truth to those who might be convinced by my argument. If I knew exactly what someone was thinking, I might be able to speak to his thoughts more correctly. As it is, our language poorly represents our actual thoughts and the understanding of what we say (or in this case write) is another filter that thoughts go through before they're interpreted and acted upon. Your dismissal with obvious disregard for your supposed brethren is offensive. I believe you need to repent and correct yourself.

That being said, we do know that torment is eternal for all those who worship the beast and his image:

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

We also have no reason to think that anyone whose name is not found in The Lamb's Book of Life shall ever be released from suffering, either.

Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

[Timothew]

Seriously? I should repent because I don't care if the studious one does not believe that ᾅδης is a greek word?

Isn't it enough that I cared enough to tell him?

 

[Mr Dave]

Seriously? I should repent because I don't care if the studious one does not believe that ᾅδης is a greek word?

Isn't it enough that I cared enough to tell him?

Well, the rest of us superior Christians don't want to have to look down on you for eternity as you burn.

 

[Studious One]

Seriously? I should repent because I don't care if the studious one does not believe that ᾅδης is a greek word?

Isn't it enough that I cared enough to tell him?

Though hades is a Greek word, it is not mythology as you would claim it to be.

The fact is, hades is a historical Greek word. It was used by those who worshiped false gods as well as those who worshiped the One True God. It was not some fairy tale mythology concocted in the minds of those that know not God. It is a real place that even the Lord Jesus Christ warned people about.

 

[Mr Dave]

Though hades is a Greek word, it is not mythology as you would claim it to be.

The fact is, hades is a historical Greek word. It was used by those who worshiped false gods as well as those who worshiped the One True God. It was not some fairy tale mythology concocted in the minds of those that know not God. It is a real place that even the Lord Jesus Christ warned people about.

Online Etymology Dictionary

It is originally Greek mythology, the earliest known usages are Homer talking about the mythological God of the Underworld and his abode.