Who did away with the law?

[Frogster]

Not of God's Law...


Why do you quote things that prove you are wrong?

Nope..Paul was clearly talking of his past in judaism. Note the pronouns.."we" and "us".

Gal 4:3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles [2] of the world.

Then he talked about being redeemed from the law.

4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

Needles to say he also talked of the law being bondage, which adds to the context of the letter.

 

[Frogster]

The rich mand did indeed keep the commands, yet did not have eternal life.

 

[bugkiller]

i'm not using a tatic at all.

my moniker says "just trying to understand", and in this case, your position.

i think differently than you on the subject of God's law.

NO MAN CAN KEEP THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR A MAN,

but, Christ in us, can! gal 2:20

i believe that the spiritual laws of God are still in effect, just like the physical laws that govern our universe are still in effect.

just like the physical laws govern whether or not you or i could jump off of this planet, the spiritual laws of God govern behavior.

you know i believe that the ten commandments are spiritual laws and that it takes no physical work to accomplish them. in fact, one of the ten commandments forbid physical work explicitlly!

yes, i believe that God wants to write the law in our hearts and that He doesn't want just obedience to the letter of the law, rather, that the adherence to the law would become second nature to one.

a genuine willingness to do the will of the father.

the ten commandments are the guideline for the christian and this is why i think Jesus told the rich man to keep the commandments to have eternal life.

we have already incurred the death penalty for our sins, so no amount of "commandment keeping", even after repentance, is enough to justify anyone.

it is the acceptance of the sacrifice of the living Christ that justifies a person, the blood of the Lamb. this is what justifies a person in the eye of God.

He died for us, even though we deserved death!

THIS IS THE GRACE OF GOD, that we are to have unmerited pardon for our sins, if we believe in His Son and accept His sacrifice.

yes, i believe that when Jesus died, part of the law was abolished along with the ministration of death (hence, no more stoning, frogster, so stop bringing that up)

i believe that the ten commandments were in force before sinai and the law that was added at sinai was the mosaic law.

i've already cited the verses for all that i have written above and you know that i have, just go look at my earler posts.

we do agree that we are not under law, but i mean in the sense of its punishment unto death and as an obligation, no, but to keep willingly, yes.

to be clear, under the law, has many meanings given the context it is used.

however, for the context of "under the law" and "under grace", this can point to salvation, in that, "under the law", when compared to "under grace" can only mean the punishment of the law and not obligation per se.

and lastly, i think that keeping the ten commandments would produce the fruits of the spirit mentioned in gal 5:22 don't you?

Lets consider the 4th commandment that you hold so dearly and loudly proclaim that you keep it.

Here is the text: Exodus 20:8-11 (King James Version)


8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now lets see. Question one: Is it OK to do business on the Sabbath? Yes or No. I think the clear answer is no because you are making someone else work even if you do not let them inside your gates. When you take delivery of the goods you bought either paid for or on account you have taken them into your gate. Here is the deal. You have a refrigerator, Stove (elec or gas), lights, probably AC, TV, radio, clock and don't forget the computer. When the meter turns you are buying goods on account and taking delivery within your gates. This means you are requiring someone else (manservant or maid servant) to work for you. When you flush the toilet the water meter turns. This too is buying and selling which you can not do on the sabbath.

Question two: Do you make your animals work on the sabbath? Yes or No again. I think the answer is yes. How? you might ask. Do you drive to church on the sabbath? I am betting you do. If you did not have a vehicle as in historic Bible days, what pary tell would be riding to sysnagogue (church)? An animal, yours of course. These days it is nice you don't even have to saddle them up or even feed them everyday.

So when you empty the refirgerator into an ice chest and take a dump in a honey bucket, don't use the AC or heater, turn on the lights and drive or ride to church you are very free to tell me you don't sin and don't break the law (specifically the ten commandments). I wager you knowingly and willfully do the above. What does the Bible say about willfull sin? What is the punishment under the law?

And so what if I have used an old agrument. Why then do you continue in that willful sinful disobedient behavior? Because it is necessary? No it isn't. It is convienent luxury.

Have I made my point? As you have pointed out no man can keep them. So why do you try and enforce them? There is no hope as you admit by stating the fact that no one can keep them you do not love God. John 14:15. You prove that you in fact hate God, the antithesis of John 14:15.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Not of God's Law...


Why do you quote things that prove you are wrong?

Could it be for the same reason you quote the ten commandments - to prove that you sin? Why do you continue to demand we sin by committing adultery and necrophilia? Romans 7.

bugkiller

 

[Deut 5:29]

Could it be for the same reason you quote the ten commandments - to prove that you sin? Why do you continue to demand we sin by committing adultery and necrophilia? Romans 7.

bugkiller

You really have lost it this time, haven't you?

 

[bugkiller]

You really have lost it this time, haven't you?

Me guesses you don't understand that to be married to 2 individuals at the same time is called adultery. And having a relationship with a dead person is necrophilia. The law is being described as as dead husband. What do you do with a dead person? I thought you burry them, not continue make love (serve) them. I don't see anything wrong with putting flowers on the grave occasionally.

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

Llets consider the 4th commandment that you hold so dearly and loudly proclaim that you keep it.

Here is the text: Exodus 20:8-11 (King James Version)


8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now lets see. Question one: Is it OK to do business on the Sabbath? Yes or No. I think the clear answer is no because you are making someone else work even if you do not let them inside your gates. When you take delivery of the goods you bought either paid for or on account you have taken them into your gate. Here is the deal. You have a refrigerator, Stove (elec or gas), lights, probably AC, TV, radio, clock and don't forget the computer. When the meter turns you are buying goods on account and taking delivery within your gates. This means you are requiring someone else (manservant or maid servant) to work for you. When you flush the toilet the water meter turns. This too is buying and selling which you can not do on the sabbath.

Question two: Do you make your animals work on the sabbath? Yes or No again. I think the answer is yes. How? you might ask. Do you drive to church on the sabbath? I am betting you do. If you did not have a vehicle as in historic Bible days, what pary tell would be riding to sysnagogue (church)? An animal, yours of course. These days it is nice you don't even have to saddle them up or even feed them everyday.

So when you empty the refirgerator into an ice chest and take a dump in a honey bucket, don't use the AC or heater, turn on the lights and drive or ride to church you are very free to tell me you don't sin and don't break the law (specifically the ten commandments). I wager you knowingly and willfully do the above. What does the Bible say about willfull sin? What is the punishment under the law?

And so what if I have used an old agrument. Why then do you continue in that willful sinful disobedient behavior? Because it is necessary? No it isn't. It is convienent luxury.

Have I made my point? As you have pointed out no man can keep them. So why do you try and enforce them? There is no hope as you admit by stating the fact that no one can keep them you do not love God. John 14:15. You prove that you in fact hate God, the antithesis of John 14:15.

bugkiller

Exactly.

 

[JohnRabbit]

You really have lost it this time, haven't you?

i agree, he and frogster.

 

[winslow]

Exactly.

Not quite. To give you an idea of how rediculouse this argument is imagine a jew prior to the incarnation walking on a Roman road on his way to the synagogue (or any other destination) on the sabbath. Would he be breaking the sabbath? Only if it was further than a sabbaths day journey, despite the fact that they worked on the road on the sabbath day.

It's amazing how legalistically others look at the situation when they try to prove a point. There were many things that would be considered "work" yet were permitted on the sabbath day. Taking a pharisitical view doesn't help your argument.

I would just like to reemphasize the original question of the thread since no one has answered yet. The question was reffering to the fairly recent idea that the moral code no longer exists as a standard of christian conduct. Even as recently as about 20 years ago you would not have heard any preacher advocating that God's moral laws were not binding on the christian That is not to say they were promoting their validity as a point of justification, just that they were a standard of conduct. Bringing up the same arguments of the last 20 years still doesn't address the fact that it is a fairly new argument.

 

[Deut 5:29]

Me guesses you don't understand that to be married to 2 individuals at the same time is called adultery. And having a relationship with a dead person is necrophilia. The law is being described as as dead husband. What do you do with a dead person? I thought you burry them, not continue make love (serve) them. I don't see anything wrong with putting flowers on the grave occasionally.

bugkiller

You do a lot of guessing. But, as usual you guess wrong.

 

[bugkiller]

Not quite. To give you an idea of how rediculouse this argument is imagine a jew prior to the incarnation walking on a Roman road on his way to the synagogue (or any other destination) on the sabbath. Would he be breaking the sabbath? Only if it was further than a sabbaths day journey, despite the fact that they worked on the road on the sabbath day.

It's amazing how legalistically others look at the situation when they try to prove a point. There were many things that would be considered "work" yet were permitted on the sabbath day. Taking a pharisitical view doesn't help your argument.

I would just like to reemphasize the original question of the thread since no one has answered yet. The question was reffering to the fairly recent idea that the moral code no longer exists as a standard of christian conduct. Even as recently as about 20 years ago you would not have heard any preacher advocating that God's moral laws were not binding on the christian That is not to say they were promoting their validity as a point of justification, just that they were a standard of conduct. Bringing up the same arguments of the last 20 years still doesn't address the fact that it is a fairly new argument.

It is amazing to me how one can say that is legalistic. Making one work on the sabbath for your selfish benefit is sin according to the ten commandments. They clearly say no. That is how Friday came to be called day of preperation. I thought the scriptures meant what they said. Now it seems there is an exception for this and an exception for that. You make the Word of God void. Who is the hypocrite here. The law pusher says I am because I don't have some kind of 7th day sabbath observance. I agree with Jesus that I am in the new covenant and the law has no jurisdiction. Therefore there is no requirement to so observe the 7th day sabbath. Because of the NC I am in compliance with the law of God. You say we are to follow Jesus and do as He did, correct? This would mean we are obligaed to the law, the whole law Gal 3:10, 5:3 and James 2:10. If this is so one can not be saved and what Jesus did on the cross is ofno value Gal 5:4. The choice to accept the free gift God provided is yours keep it or throw it in the trash. Your decision affects only you, not me. It is your soul.

If you believe in annihilation any thing you say doesn't matter. The wicked only go poof and cease to exist. Some punishment. You incourage sin in my opinion.

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

i agree, he and frogster.

I can recommend some excellent scholars for you to study on Galatians, if you so desire.

You never ever give a clear answer whenever I ask you why paul did not want uncle Moses for the galatian churches.

 

[Frogster]

Not quite. To give you an idea of how rediculouse this argument is imagine a jew prior to the incarnation walking on a Roman road on his way to the synagogue (or any other destination) on the sabbath. Would he be breaking the sabbath? Only if it was further than a sabbaths day journey, despite the fact that they worked on the road on the sabbath day.

It's amazing how legalistically others look at the situation when they try to prove a point. There were many things that would be considered "work" yet were permitted on the sabbath day. Taking a pharisitical view doesn't help your argument.

I would just like to reemphasize the original question of the thread since no one has answered yet. The question was reffering to the fairly recent idea that the moral code no longer exists as a standard of christian conduct. Even as recently as about 20 years ago you would not have heard any preacher advocating that God's moral laws were not binding on the christian That is not to say they were promoting their validity as a point of justification, just that they were a standard of conduct. Bringing up the same arguments of the last 20 years still doesn't address the fact that it is a fairly new argument.

Why did Paul point the Galatians to the Spirit as their guide, not the law?

Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now
being perfected by [1] the flesh?

Gal 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.


Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”


Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.


HERE COMES THE BIGGIE..PAY ATTENTION NOW..HERE IT COMES..


Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[JohnRabbit]

I can recommend some excellent scholars for you to study on Galatians, if you so desire.

You never ever give a clear answer whenever I ask you why paul did not want uncle Moses for the galatian churches.

i've already answered this question in another thread.

you didn't like the answer i gave then, and i'm gonna restate it and you're still not going to like it.

i know because that's how you roll.

if you read my post that was called a "speech" (post #104 in this thread), you would have the answer to the question you posed to me.

so, i'll answer you again, paul did not want the law of moses or the mosaic law for the galatians because that law was done away with at the cross, along with the ministration of death.

paul didn't want them to keep laws that God had abolished through the sacrifice of the living Christ.

as i have stated before, the mosaic law was a guide for the COI, and the ten commandments was the guideline.

the Holy Spirit is our guide now and no need for the mosaic law.

remember, the mosaic law was to teach the COI the habit of obedience.

now do you see?

 

[Frogster]

i've already answered this question in another thread.

you didn't like the answer i gave. if you read my post that was called a speech, you would have the answer to the question you posed to me.

so, i'll answer you again, paul did not want the law of moses or the mosaic law for the galatians because that law was done away at the cross, along with the ministration of death.

paul didn't want them to keep laws that God had abolished through the sacrifice of the living Christ.

as i have stated before, the mosaic law was guide for the COI and the ten commandments was the guideline.

the Holy Spirit is our guide now and no need for the mosaic law.

now do you see?

Then in light of 4:10 and 2:14 do u admit Sabbath and food laws are no longer binding?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Then in light of 4:10 and 2:14 do u admit Sabbath and food laws are no longer binding?

Thou might be interested in this thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7490218/#post55449609

 

[JohnRabbit]

Then in light of 4:10 and 2:14 do u admit Sabbath and food laws are no longer binding?

what books?

 

[New_Wineskin]

So , this is officially a "worship the Sabbath" thread ?

It is interesting that a day of the week has become a god .

 

[Frogster]

So , this is officially a "worship the Sabbath" thread ?

It is interesting that a day of the week has become a god .

 

[Frogster]

what books?

Start with one of the best known and respected, FF Bruce, then I will give you more. Bruce says..


Gal 3:13, where Christ took the whole curse of the law, he says the obvious. "Paul saw that as law abrogation."

So froggy poses 2 questions.

1.Notice how life under law was a curse, as per what Deut 27;26 also says, which agrees with gal 3:10?

2. Since Jesus took all that in himslef, which brought closure, the end of an era, doesn't that bring the verse to light, that you ignore whenever I post it?...

This..


Gal 2:18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.

Bruce's book is deep and very exegetical, after you digest it, I will give you your next assignment.