Who did away with the law?

[bugkiller]

what are the laws of the new covenant?

Hmmm! Just what should I say? You wish to agrue for and about the law. If I show laws of the NC you will say they are a rehash of the old to which I can not agree Jer 31:31-34. You are demanding to be told how to behave. I am not. As to behavior I think Gal 5:16-21 does a good job. This list is clearly not presented as a list of thou shalt and shalt nots. It shows the defference in following the flesh and the Spirit.

Romans 8:1, 2 state that we are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. I think the first 6 verses help in this matter. Here they are:

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Following the law is following the flesh and you are free to do so and continue to struggle with sin or you can be free as verse 2 indicates. Verse 6 says if you follow the flesh you are dead. The context is verse 5. Flesh and carnal are the same thing. Don't ask me why the translators chose different words.

Gal 5 also says in verse 13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

This makes no statement about following any list of can and can nots.

Gal 5:1 says Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

The yoke of bondage is the law inclusive of all 603 demands or commandments.

The purpose of the false brethern is mentioned in Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: They are identified a little better in my opinion in Jude 4: For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

If you wish you can continue to be justified by the law and remain unredeemed - lost in your sin. Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

i am still waiting for you to tell me what the laws of the new covenant are that you mentioned.

Follow thread order please. Are the verses I posted being written on our hearts to obey?

Are people sinning if they eat pork?

Paul said no in Galatians 2, where the Judaizers were trying to put Moses in the churches.

Why didn't Paul want the Sabbath for the Galatians, Sab is in the 10? Why?

So again, in thread order, I asked you. Are those written in our hearts, contrary to what Paul did not want for the Galatians?

How can the new cov, to which Paul was a minister, be about laws Paul told them not to bother with?

 

[Rick Otto]

The notion that the death on the cross abolishes or does away the moral law is a fairly new introduction into Christianity, within the 20th century. Here is what bible commentators had to say about the validity of God's moral law based on
Romans 3:31 Do we then make the Law void through faith? Let it not be! But we establish the Law

Where can I find a copy of God's moral Law?
I been hangin' with this:
And one of them, a doctor of the Law, putting him to the test, asked him, "Master, which is the great commandment in the Law?" Jesus said to him, "'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.' This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:35-40)

 

[JohnRabbit]

Hmmm! Just what should I say? You wish to agrue for and about the law. If I show laws of the NC you will say they are a rehash of the old to which I can not agree Jer 31:31-34. You are demanding to be told how to behave. I am not. As to behavior I think Gal 5:16-21 does a good job. This list is clearly not presented as a list of thou shalt and shalt nots. It shows the defference in following the flesh and the Spirit.

Romans 8:1, 2 state that we are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. I think the first 6 verses help in this matter. Here they are:

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Following the law is following the flesh and you are free to do so and continue to struggle with sin or you can be free as verse 2 indicates. Verse 6 says if you follow the flesh you are dead. The context is verse 5. Flesh and carnal are the same thing. Don't ask me why the translators chose different words.

Gal 5 also says in verse 13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

This makes no statement about following any list of can and can nots.

Gal 5:1 says Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

The yoke of bondage is the law inclusive of all 603 demands or commandments.

The purpose of the false brethern is mentioned in Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: They are identified a little better in my opinion in Jude 4: For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

If you wish you can continue to be justified by the law and remain unredeemed - lost in your sin. Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

bugkiller

you wrote all of that and you still did not explain what the laws of the new covenant are.

interesting to me, that you presume to know what i'm going to say about a subject.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Follow thread order please. Are the verses I posted being written on our hearts to obey?

Are people sinning if they eat pork?

Paul said no in Galatians 2, where the Judaizers were trying to put Moses in the churches.

Why didn't Paul want the Sabbath for the Galatians, Sab is in the 10? Why?

So again, in thread order, I asked you. Are those written in our hearts, contrary to what Paul did not want for the Galatians?

How can the new cov, to which Paul was a minister, be about laws Paul told them not to bother with?

what are you talking about thread order?

i asked bugkiller the question on page 7, post #66! and you still haven't answered.

so again, what laws of the new covenant.

 

[bugkiller]

you wrote all of that and you still did not explain what the laws of the new covenant are.

interesting to me, that you presume to know what i'm going to say about a subject.

I am not about to give you a list of shalt do and shalt do nots for you to argue with about them being also stated in the OT. If that is what you wish to do you can provide such without my assistance.

I will admit that there are some similarities with the statement from Jer 31:31-34. I key in on the word new and the phrase not according to.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

interesting to me, that you presume to know what i'm going to say about a subject.

The argument is very predictable around here.

bugkiller

 

[Deut 5:29]

In Romans 2:13 Paul says emphatically, "Not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified." Justification is not even available to those who refuse to be "doers" of the law. [i.e. lawless ones]

 

[Deut 5:29]

prove it

Sabbath or sabbaths is not ever mentioned in the whole letter to the Galatians. You can't just make this stuff up, well maybe YOU can.

 

[bugkiller]

In Romans 2:13 Paul says emphatically, "Not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified." Justification is not even available to those who refuse to be "doers" of the law. [i.e. lawless ones]

My guess is that you have not heard what Christ has done for you.

How are we to observe the law when we are clearly told to throw it out? Why should we obsserve the law when we are repeatedly told we are not under (subject to) the the law?

You are taking something used as background for a teaching as the what is being taught.This is called an out of context statement. If one can be justified by the law then God is a fool. He gave His only begotten Son to die that you and I could be redeemed from the law. If it were possible to be justified by the law that would be very dumb. You can not name a single person who was or is justified by the law. Everyone except Jesus has violated the law without exception. YOur righteousness (obeying the law) is like filthy rags. Do you know what filthy rags are? Do you know what was done with filthy rags? Does your righteousness (obedience to the law) exceed that of the scribes and pharisees? I doubt it.

The scripture backs up everything I said. You have been given them repeatedly and chose to ignore for out of context proof texts backing your idea. That is you have an idea and go looking for any phrase to validate your idea. Anyone can prove anything that way.

bugkiller

 

[Rick Otto]

Who did away with the law?

It was Mr. Mustard in the Library with a candlestick.

 

[Frogster]

what are you talking about thread order?

i asked bugkiller the question on page 7, post #66! and you still haven't answered.

so again, what laws of the new covenant.

Your not answering, your just doing a typical debate tactic. hide-n-ask!

Is God writing those laws I mentioned or not?

I told what he was not writing, so perhaps you can say what he is?

Poor little froggy gave he best, so please educate us here, and tell us.

 

[Frogster]

Sabbath or sabbaths is not ever mentioned in the whole letter to the Galatians. You can't just make this stuff up, well maybe YOU can.

Everyone knows..I say everyone..knows. This is the jewish calendar. What other calendar would judaizers push?


Galatians 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!

 

[Frogster]

Sabbath or sabbaths is not ever mentioned in the whole letter to the Galatians. You can't just make this stuff up, well maybe YOU can.

Are you going to say that proselytes did not keep Sabbath?

Gal 5:3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

 

[Frogster]

what are you talking about thread order?

i asked bugkiller the question on page 7, post #66! and you still haven't answered.

so again, what laws of the new covenant.

Yup..the more I think it over..it is high time for you to list all the laws God is writing, it is your position, defend it please.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Your not answering, your just doing a typical debate tactic. hide-n-ask!

Is God writing those laws I mentioned or not?

I told what he was not writing, so perhaps you can say what he is?

Poor little froggy gave he best, so please educate us here, and tell us.

i'm not using a tatic at all.

my moniker says "just trying to understand", and in this case, your position.

i think differently than you on the subject of God's law.

NO MAN CAN KEEP THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR A MAN,

but, Christ in us, can! gal 2:20

i believe that the spiritual laws of God are still in effect, just like the physical laws that govern our universe are still in effect.

just like the physical laws govern whether or not you or i could jump off of this planet, the spiritual laws of God govern behavior.

you know i believe that the ten commandments are spiritual laws and that it takes no physical work to accomplish them. in fact, one of the ten commandments forbid physical work explicitlly!

yes, i believe that God wants to write the law in our hearts and that He doesn't want just obedience to the letter of the law, rather, that the adherence to the law would become second nature to one.

a genuine willingness to do the will of the father.

the ten commandments are the guideline for the christian and this is why i think Jesus told the rich man to keep the commandments to have eternal life.

we have already incurred the death penalty for our sins, so no amount of "commandment keeping", even after repentance, is enough to justify anyone.

it is the acceptance of the sacrifice of the living Christ that justifies a person, the blood of the Lamb. this is what justifies a person in the eye of God.

He died for us, even though we deserved death!

THIS IS THE GRACE OF GOD, that we are to have unmerited pardon for our sins, if we believe in His Son and accept His sacrifice.

yes, i believe that when Jesus died, part of the law was abolished along with the ministration of death (hence, no more stoning, frogster, so stop bringing that up)

i believe that the ten commandments were in force before sinai and the law that was added at sinai was the mosaic law.

i've already cited the verses for all that i have written above and you know that i have, just go look at my earler posts.

we do agree that we are not under law, but i mean in the sense of its punishment unto death and as an obligation, no, but to keep willingly, yes.

to be clear, under the law, has many meanings given the context it is used.

however, for the context of "under the law" and "under grace", this can point to salvation, in that, "under the law", when compared to "under grace" can only mean the punishment of the law and not obligation per se.

and lastly, i think that keeping the ten commandments would produce the fruits of the spirit mentioned in gal 5:22 don't you?

 

[Deut 5:29]

Everyone knows..I say everyone..knows. This is the jewish calendar. What other calendar would judaizers push?

Galatians 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!

Where do you get this stuff?
These people were recent converts from their pagan ways.
Paul is telling them not to GO BACK into their past ways.

 

[Frogster]

Where do you get this stuff?
These people were recent converts from their pagan ways.
Paul is telling them not to GO BACK into their past ways.

Nice try!

It was Judaism that they were reverting to, that is the whole thrust of the book!

U sunk your boat! Actually did u know that scholars say that Paul compared his fromer life of judaism, with that of the elementals of paganism?


Gal 4:3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles [2] of the world.

He was saying that they were reverting back to a similar system to Judaism.

Dude!

 

[Frogster]

i'm not using a tatic at all.

my moniker says "just trying to understand", and in this case, your position.

i think differently than you on the subject of God's law.

NO MAN CAN KEEP THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR A MAN,

but, Christ in us, can! gal 2:20

i believe that the spiritual laws of God are still in effect, just like the physical laws that govern our universe are still in effect.

just like the physical laws govern whether or not you or i could jump off of this planet, the spiritual laws of God govern behavior.

you know i believe that the ten commandments are spiritual laws and that it takes no physical work to accomplish them. in fact, one of the ten commandments forbid physical work explicitlly!

yes, i believe that God wants to write the law in our hearts and that He doesn't want just obedience to the letter of the law, rather, that the adherence to the law would become second nature to one.

a genuine willingness to do the will of the father.

the ten commandments are the guideline for the christian and this is why i think Jesus told the rich man to keep the commandments to have eternal life.

we have already incurred the death penalty for our sins, so no amount of "commandment keeping", even after repentance, is enough to justify anyone.

it is the acceptance of the sacrifice of the living Christ that justifies a person, the blood of the Lamb. this is what justifies a person in the eye of God.

He died for us, even though we deserved death!

THIS IS THE GRACE OF GOD, that we are to have unmerited pardon for our sins, if we believe in His Son and accept His sacrifice.

yes, i believe that when Jesus died, part of the law was abolished along with the ministration of death (hence, no more stoning, frogster, so stop bringing that up)

i believe that the ten commandments were in force before sinai and the law that was added at sinai was the mosaic law.

i've already cited the verses for all that i have written above and you know that i have, just go look at my earler posts.

we do agree that we are not under law, but i mean in the sense of its punishment unto death and as an obligation, no, but to keep willingly, yes.

to be clear, under the law, has many meanings given the context it is used.

however, for the context of "under the law" and "under grace", this can point to salvation, in that, "under the law", when compared to "under grace" can only mean the punishment of the law and not obligation per se.

and lastly, i think that keeping the ten commandments would produce the fruits of the spirit mentioned in gal 5:22 don't you?

I don't read speeches, show me how God is writing the full Mosaic law on Gentile hearts please!

Are you saying under the new cov it is a sin to eat shrimp?

 

[Deut 5:29]

Nice try!



Gal 4:3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles [2] of the world.

Not of God's Law...


Why do you quote things that prove you are wrong?