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we are scared of questions because questions and the corresponding answers reveal things about ourselves that we don't want to deal with...things hidden so deeply within us, that we refuse to go there anymore, refuse to think it through, refuse to accept that we might just be wrong.
I read this manifesto, and there is a lot in it I can agree with. But, there is a big but. Sam harris is in no way the voice, the delegate of the atheist mouvement. Actually there no such mouvement. There are some atheist groups, but there is no single group or person entitled to speak in the name of all atheists.
Problem is that your scripture delivers such a unsatisfying (is that good English?) answers, or such shallow, unsustainable position that one has to press on with more questions.
The Bible goes right in there though and exposes it for the whole world to see, whether we like it or not.
It describes mankind...and technically, when it comes to Christian's (being those that really follow scripture not just claim they do), should love questions, answers, exploration, etc. because scripture tells us to search, it also tells us to be prepared to give an answer...you would be amazed at how many non believers and believers alike I chase away because I love to ask and answer questions as well as having an answer....it's truly amazing how many people run, when faced with someone who knows what they believe and why...non run faster than those that do not believe.
the interesting thing about atheists, is that if this forum is any indication, they can't even all agree on what atheist means or what an atheist would believe about God...it seems that like the name Christian, it is a word used to send out a wide net so that no one really knows what it means, therefore becomes meaningless and as a meaningless term, cannot be used to introduce anyone to truth...IOW's it becomes a term used to justify anything and everything and in the process compels to get hung up on labels rather than the truths we claim to seek.
actually, if don't with intent, asking questions only takes us into a deeper understanding, which is a good thing if your intent is to understand and not just to justify.
I fixed it for you.
No, to really fix it you would have to include both groups, something I did just a bit ago...it's about having a fair assessment of not only ourselves, but the people we identify with. Goes back to the nature of us human beings and our fear of questions and answers.
that is one definition, look, I have talked to bunches of atheists, even have one atheist that came to our sons funeral. Each one has a slightly different definition to offer, a defintion that reflects their own personal bias...it is no different than when we ask a christian for details of what they believe. Because we are all individuals, the more people in a specific group, the harder it is to find 100% common ground on every aspect of that belief. It is sociology 101, have you taken it? You would also deal with it in most phycology classes....It is an interesting phenomina and one that scripture addresses even though an incredibly few christians accept the biblical teaching on it. A vast number of which will testify to knowing the scripture but not being willing to accept it.
I don't know about Gawron, all I know is about what I said, and what I said is about definition of what an atheist is....
what does that have to do with sociology 101? If I thought I knew it all, I would go well beyond sociology 101, now wouldn't I...I also would be arguing with you throughout this entire thread. In fact, I prefer to ask questions and learn from those answers than to teach anything, something I did with you until you refused to answer any more questions....hum, what does that say about where the questions were taking you within yourself?
so when I say that we are to question, that we are to explore, you somehow think I am saying we shouldn't...how does that work? If I say we should question and seek answers, doesn't that mean we should question and seek answers? why would you apply the opposite meaning to what I said, and then ask me if that is what I mean?
Then I misunderstood you and I apologize but when you said "if your intent is to understand and not just to justify," it indicated something else to me.
I think that's presumptuous in that you're assuming that you do have the right answers. If your answers include things that can't be seen, measured, detected, or otherwise objectively demonstrated, why would you expect people to believe you and how long would you expect someone to listen to you trying to convince them?
like what? Any time our questions are for the purpose of justification, we fail to hear the answers that come with those questions...every time we question with the intent of learning, with the intent of understanding, a world is open to us. This is as true for science as it is for scripture...as true for atheism as it is for christianity...it is as true to a class in school as it is for an individual we are talking to. When our intent is to understand/learn, we discover worlds opening up to us, great knowledge and understanding becoming ours. When our only intent is to justify, questions loose thier meaning and we are as dull of hearing, dull of understanding, dull of truth as we always have been. There are no lines of exception, it is simply the nature of the thing.
I assume no such thing, what I assume is that if I have wrong information, it will be challenged with logic and evidence...so far, I see none, eventually, we must draw the conclusion that if there is no counter of substance, the thing must be truth...but that is also an individual matter, and we each have a different level of "proof" needed to call a thing truth.
are we talking about God again, or questions?
we're cool, you are a pretty good chap to talk with...
