Proposition 8 overturned in California

[Gwenyfur]

That's not the point. As Christians, we would want laws based on Christianity.

I don't recall Rome having laws that were based on Judaism in Jesus' time.

I have a hard time believing God supports most of our secular laws.

and yes Jesus said "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" ... I can't imagine he just meant taxes...

God did indeed tell me what was right through His word. I stand firmly by that.

It's fine that you stand firmly by your beliefs...
but I really hope that people in general would consider historically what has happened in theocracies...both Christian and otherwise...

Blood, death, misery, ignorance, poverty just to name a few. Absolute power corrupts...history's proven that time and time again...never more so than when the Church had the reigns of power over all of Europe.

Our constitution provides for no state sponsored church for a reason. The precedent of Jefferson's letter to the Danbury(sp?) Baptists stands as legal precedent for a reason. The Constitution of our country does not allow for Christians to legislate religious practice, morality and sexuality for me, any more than it allows Pagans or any other group to legislate those things for you. It does allow for legislation to encourages tolerance and equality of people of all colors, creeds, religions, and yes...even sexuality.

Which leads us back to the crux of the matter...

If you don't believe in homosexual marriage...who cares...it's legal in some states of this country...so leave that equality to those who have the constitutionally protected right of equality under the law. If it bothers your sense of right and wrong, biblical or not, then leave it to God.

 

[Jase]

Standard answer: Because that's not god talking to him. It's the DEVIL!

Yup, that's what I expect. The typical, if it doesn't align with my interpretation of scripture, it's coming from Satan.

 

[Skaloop]

Why do people always use that line? The baby-eating atheist one? I have nothing against atheists. Yes, I genuinely believe that gay marriage should not be allowed and I will vote that way when the issue comes up. Everyone should vote how their "conscience" leads them to vote.

I agree. But the issue regarding Prop 8 now is coming down to whether same-sex marriage should come down to a vote, or whether it is a Constitutionally-protected right. If the latter, then a vote is unnecessary.

I'm not personally calling anyone an abomination. I'm quoting the word of God and letting God speak for Himself.

If that lets you live witha clear conscience, fine, but you're still the middle man. And saying that you're just letting God speak for himself isn't getting you off the hook anyway, because you are in agreement with him. You can't say "Hey Bob, I agree with what Joe says, and Joe says you're a jerk!" and not expect Bob to get just as upset at you as at Joe. Especially when Joe is nowhere to be seen.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Why do people always use that line? The baby-eating atheist one? I have nothing against atheists.

It was a tongue-in-cheek expression to jab at those people who really do think we eat babies. I know you well enough to know that you're not one of those people, Sojourner .

Yes, I genuinely believe that gay marriage should not be allowed and I will vote that way when the issue comes up. Everyone should vote how their "conscience" leads them to vote.

True, but I worry that people vote for things they otherwise wouldn't if they put a little thought into it. I recently learned that US senators generally don't read the bills they vote on. Madness! There was a debate in Britain recently about the claim that "the Catholic Church is a force for good in the world"; polls before and after the debate showed a decisive victory for those opposed to the claim. People genuinely believe that MMR vaccines cause autism and all sorts of other ailments, or that science legitimately supports the idea that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, or that, if you flip a coin and get heads five times in a row, it's wise to bet on tails.

People are fallacious, and believe demonstrably wrong things. When people vote for something based solely on religious arguments, without lending any thought to anything else, it saddens me. I also worry that religious voting leads to the kind of persecution, anti-scientific thinking, and general theocracy that lead to the founding of the US in the first place.

I'm sure I had a point somewhere...

Oh, yes. Prop 8 was struck down. Do you, Sojourner, consider there to be a legitimate case for prohibiting the legal recognition of same-sex marriages in California?

I'm not personally calling anyone an abomination. I'm quoting the word of God and letting God speak for Himself.

If you cite Leviticus 18:22 as your reason for condemning gay marriage, surely that means you consider that verse to be valid?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

You guys are totally missing the point and I can't help but think that you're being purposefully obtuse.

As a Christian, I'd rather have laws based on Christianity than secularism. As Christians, our actions should, first and foremost, be in line with God's laws, not man's laws. Man's law may well say homosexual marriage is okay, but God's laws do not. Man's law makes it okay to abort babies, but God's law does not.

God teaches that we should respect the authority placed above us, but that His law always comes first. When we decide how we feel based on what society tells us (which can be done via laws) rather than what God tells us, we've lost focus of what's important.

Saying "this is not a Christian country so we shouldn't have Christian laws" basically smacks God in the face as though His laws don't matter and man's laws trump His.

 

[Gishin]

Saying "this is not a Christian country so we shouldn't have Christian laws" basically smacks God in the face as though His laws don't matter and man's laws trump His.

He's a big man, he can take it.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

He's a big man, he can take it.

are you saying you believe in him now? Or are you just commenting on something you have no idea about?

 

[selfinflikted]

Saying "this is not a Christian country so we shouldn't have Christian laws" basically smacks God in the face as though His laws don't matter and man's laws trump His.

A lot of people agree that they do. Myself included.

 

[pgp_protector]

You guys are totally missing the point and I can't help but think that you're being purposefully obtuse.

As a Christian, I'd rather have laws based on Christianity than secularism. As Christians, our actions should, first and foremost, be in line with God's laws, not man's laws. Man's law may well say homosexual marriage is okay, but God's laws do not. Man's law makes it okay to abort babies, but God's law does not.

God teaches that we should respect the authority placed above us, but that His law always comes first. When we decide how we feel based on what society tells us (which can be done via laws) rather than what God tells us, we've lost focus of what's important.

Saying "this is not a Christian country so we shouldn't have Christian laws" basically smacks God in the face as though His laws don't matter and man's laws trump His.

Jesus stated 2 Laws were the most important, what were they, and do you want them written into the State Laws ?

 

[SithDoughnut]

You guys are totally missing the point and I can't help but think that you're being purposefully obtuse.

As a Christian, I'd rather have laws based on Christianity than secularism. As Christians, our actions should, first and foremost, be in line with God's laws, not man's laws. Man's law may well say homosexual marriage is okay, but God's laws do not. Man's law makes it okay to abort babies, but God's law does not.

God teaches that we should respect the authority placed above us, but that His law always comes first. When we decide how we feel based on what society tells us (which can be done via laws) rather than what God tells us, we've lost focus of what's important.

Saying "this is not a Christian country so we shouldn't have Christian laws" basically smacks God in the face as though His laws don't matter and man's laws trump His.

What about the Muslim God, or the Gods of Hinduism? Should we follow their laws too?

When you live in a country with multiple belief systems, there is no reason why one religious law should be elevated over others. You can follow God's law if you want, but you have no right to force others to do so. You have a constitution designed to stop that.

 

[Gishin]

are you saying you believe in him now? Or are you just commenting on something you have no idea about?

I play Warhammer 40k. It is a war game using metal and plastic models. I have one such model called Eldrad Ulthwe. He's a psychic and master manipulator, and I also attribute to him the personality of a major jerk. Does that mean I believe my little model is actually sentient and has these personality traits?

 

[Gwenyfur]

You guys are totally missing the point and I can't help but think that you're being purposefully obtuse.

As a Christian, I'd rather have laws based on Christianity than secularism. As Christians, our actions should, first and foremost, be in line with God's laws, not man's laws. Man's law may well say homosexual marriage is okay, but God's laws do not. Man's law makes it okay to abort babies, but God's law does not.

God teaches that we should respect the authority placed above us, but that His law always comes first. When we decide how we feel based on what society tells us (which can be done via laws) rather than what God tells us, we've lost focus of what's important.

Saying "this is not a Christian country so we shouldn't have Christian laws" basically smacks God in the face as though His laws don't matter and man's laws trump His.

Not trying to be obtuse here...
But if God doesn't interfere with a person's free will...why then do his followers feel it's okay via legislation?

 

[selfinflikted]

I play Warhammer 40k. It is a war game using metal and plastic models. I have one such model called Eldrad Ulthwe. He's a psychic and master manipulator, and I also attribute to him the personality of a major jerk. Does that mean I believe my little model is actually sentient and has these personality traits?

You NEED to play more WoW.

 

[pgp_protector]

You NEED to play more WoW.

I'm so tempted to get my old private server running again.
I'd play online, but my old guild died & the players just never came back (left the bank full of stuff though )

 

[selfinflikted]

I'm so tempted to get my old private server running again.
I'd play online, but my old guild died & the players just never came back (left the bank full of stuff though )

You can always come play with me on Emerald Dream (server).

 

[salida]

The will of the people will not be ignored. This will go to the supreme court. America wasn't founded on same sex marriage. Plus, the polygamist and beastality candidates will complain now.

 

[SithDoughnut]

The will of the people will not be ignored. This will go to the supreme court. America wasn't founded on same sex marriage. Plus, the polygamist and beastality candidates will complain now.

Obviously. They are all completely the same thing after all.

 

[Jase]

As a Christian, I'd rather have laws based on Christianity than secularism. As Christians, our actions should, first and foremost, be in line with God's laws, not man's laws. Man's law may well say homosexual marriage is okay, but God's laws do not. Man's law makes it okay to abort babies, but God's law does not.

Um, you mean your interpretation of God's law may say that, but millions upon millions of Christians disagree with you. You can't claim something as fact without evidence. And there is zero evidence that your beliefs are correct.

God teaches that we should respect the authority placed above us, but that His law always comes first. When we decide how we feel based on what society tells us (which can be done via laws) rather than what God tells us, we've lost focus of what's important.

And how about those of us who God told are not sinning by being homosexual/bisexual/transgender?

Saying "this is not a Christian country so we shouldn't have Christian laws" basically smacks God in the face as though His laws don't matter and man's laws trump His.

To atheists, muslims and Jews, Christian laws are meaningless and have no business being in this country. When you move to a secluded island and set up your own theocracy where only Fundamentalist Christians are permitted to be citizens, you can set up any laws you want. Until then, your laws are meaningless.

 

[Jase]

You can always come play with me on Emerald Dream (server).

Most of my characters are on Cenarius Been playing SC2 lately anyway, but I suck royally.

 

[Jase]

The will of the people will not be ignored. This will go to the supreme court. America wasn't founded on same sex marriage. Plus, the polygamist and beastality candidates will complain now.

The Supreme Court has no reason to not uphold this law. There is no religious institution of marriage enshrined in the Constitution, and there is not a single legal argument for the anti-gay marriage side that doesn't violate the Constitution. The SCOTUS has upheld same-gender sex in Lawrence, and marriage being a basic civil right in Loving. What precedent are they going to use to argue neither of those apply to gays?