Romance Novels = Porn?

[JanniGirl]

Con,

The trouble lies not in the novels . . . . but in the fact that we all tend to compare ourselves and/or our spouses to others. It's like what what said earlier about Martha Stewart or June Cleaver . . . . or anyone that can be held up as an "ideal" that the spouse then has to compete with. If you wife was doing that with a romance novel or a Popular Mechanics magazine, it would have the same end result.

It's not the medium (romance novel, magazine, tv show, neighbor's spouse) that is the problem. The problem is in how people use it for comparison.

We've all agreed that porn is wrong because it has no redeemable value.

I think you've mistaken a personal issue in you own life with something that isn't inherently bad or sinful. If your wife had been reading something else and then comparing you to THAT image . . . . you'd have the same bias against that item as well (we'll use Popular Mechanic magazine as our example). You might consider women who read Popular Mechanic as more likely to be lusting after or negatively comparing their husbands to images/people depicted in that magazine.

Personally, I think that THIS topic isn't what's addressed in the original question. I feel we've probably already addressed that topic and moved on to this.

 

[dinonum]

Correct. But let me tell what they really do all contain...if there are some that dont, they wont sell

They contain a male protagonist created by a female author. This man IS the refelction back of the mind of a woman, he knows EXACTLY what to say and when...he knows when to push...he knows when not to push...he knows when to empathize and when to jump in and act to solve problems. he is "the ideal man"....and before you add "but he also has flaws" yep.....amd ebenm the flaws are designed to be the right kind of flaws that even THEY can be alluring...perhaps he needs to be tamed....or perhaps he is MEEK and needs her to draw out the more manly man...whatever...a million different things.....

He IS another image, titillating, and dont confuse this with it having to be sex. In fact I say its not about the sex. Here you see womens emotional needs trumping the physical sexual need...so the issue with the novel isnt sex...its that the dude meets her MAIN need....some just right like 3 bears porridge emotional balance, a mind reader, a sacrificial leader , whatever...he is something the husband is not.

Dont think for a minute its innocent JUST because its not the sex. ANYTHING that creates a seperate ideal in marriage that you can see , is a possible problem.

Its not some silly simplistic thing like always gets reflected back. Women ares reading this and literally instantly swooning and saying OH if my husb could be that way....

its FAR more subtle, and not overt...but it CAN EASILY be there.

During some of the toughest times in my marriage my wife would tell me while she wasnt having an affair, she DID have this image of the ideal man in her mind...not from romance books. hers what was insidious about hers, it was based on how preachers described a man SHOULD be. Thats why im sensitive to the expectations the churches teachings on men build.

The problem with this though is that it has nothing to do with actual romance novels. Everyone has an image of what the ideal man or woman would be like. The things you are talking about infer that almost all movies and all books and all songs and etc. are equal to pornography.

 

[moonkitty]

Your attempt to ridicule and at humor comes across as nothing lest that a Female Chauvinistic sexist at work.

You, my dear, illustrate my point that there are tons of sexist women here at CF. Thanks, you make my work easy...and just for example.....

"As to the original topic at hand--anything taken too far can be bad. Anyone who watches Pornography and really believes that real life should be like that is silly. I do not know what is sillier, a man who believes that real life should be like a porn flick or women who believes that all men who watch said Pron thinks that real life should be like that."

If being able to read a book without comparing my husband to the main male protagonist makes me a female chauvinistic sexist, then oh well.

As for rewording my quote, so what, I agree if you reword it with pornography. I don't mind pornography, I don't mind my husband watching porn. But if he thinks I'm going to be anything like the women in porn, then he will have a very rude adwakening.

 

[Romanseight2005]

The problem with this though is that it has nothing to do with actual romance novels. Everyone has an image of what the ideal man or woman would be like. The things you are talking about infer that almost all movies and all books and all songs and etc. are equal to pornography.

All one has to do is read the bible and think why can't he be like Christ? But there is another issue here entirely. Comparing character flaws to physical appearance aren't the same things either. For instance, let's say your wife is 50. It's not right in any way at all want her to look like a 20 year old. It's not right to have the 20 year old body be your standard of beauty. In fact a spouse should find their spouse alluring. A large part of that falls on the person to find their spouse alluring, not just on the other spouse to be alluring. However, we are all supposed to be Christlike. So wanting a partner to be more Christlike isn't bad in itself. It's in not appreciating the good and noble points our spouse has, that would be wrong.

 

[dinonum]

Correct. But let me tell what they really do all contain...if there are some that dont, they wont sell
They contain a male protagonist created by a female author. This man IS the refelction back of the mind of a woman, he knows EXACTLY what to say and when...he knows when to push...he knows when not to push...he knows when to empathize and when to jump in and act to solve problems. he is "the ideal man"....and before you add "but he also has flaws" yep.....amd ebenm the flaws are designed to be the right kind of flaws that even THEY can be alluring...perhaps he needs to be tamed....or perhaps he is MEEK and needs her to draw out the more manly man...whatever...a million different things.....

Alright, I have a bit more time for replies so I'll give it a go. The reasoning you are provided isn't a legitimate reason to compare romantic novels to pornography. Those reasonings would infer I shouldn't speak about my marriage because my husband has no flaws except flaws that are "alluring", that we shouldn't listen to music or watch T.V. or read books or heck, even read the Bible. Why? They all have reflections of what an ideal man would be in relationships.

He IS another image, titillating, and dont confuse this with it having to be sex. In fact I say its not about the sex. Here you see womens emotional needs trumping the physical sexual need...so the issue with the novel isnt sex...its that the dude meets her MAIN need....some just right like 3 bears porridge emotional balance, a mind reader, a sacrificial leader , whatever...he is something the husband is not.

What if it is something the husband is? Is it bad to desire your SO to be more like "A" or "B"?

Dont think for a minute its innocent JUST because its not the sex. ANYTHING that creates a seperate ideal in marriage that you can see , is a possible problem.

So what is the purpose of using porn as the example in this issue?

Its not some silly simplistic thing like always gets reflected back. Women ares reading this and literally instantly swooning and saying OH if my husb could be that way....

What kind of things are imagining that women want their husbands to be like though?

During some of the toughest times in my marriage my wife would tell me while she wasnt having an affair, she DID have this image of the ideal man in her mind...not from romance books. hers what was insidious about hers, it was based on how preachers described a man SHOULD be. Thats why im sensitive to the expectations the churches teachings on men build.

This is the problem though, the men who are being so adimate about this comparing romantic novels to pornography are doing so because it's shocking. Not because it actually deals with the problems with romantic novels. What you are saying is that romantic novels are comparible to pornography, in the same ways pornography is comparible to the teachings of what a man should be that the church gives, etc.

Your attempt to ridicule and at humor comes across as nothing lest that a Female Chauvinistic sexist at work.
You, my dear, illustrate my point that there are tons of sexist women here at CF. Thanks, you make my work easy...and just for example.....

Everyone who disagrees with you has nothing to do with being a female chauvinist.

"As to the original topic at hand--anything taken too far can be bad. Anyone who watches Pornography and really believes that real life should be like that is silly. I do not know what is sillier, a man who believes that real life should be like a porn flick or women who believes that all men who watch said Pron thinks that real life should be like that."

I see nothing wrong with that. What is the problem with the quote?

I didnt catch it said that romance novels are sinful.
I didnt see it stated that EVERY SINGLE romance novel is even a problem.
The posited claim is RM's CAN BE harmful in an analogous way to porn.
Thats all.

Again, why is it being compared to porn? What is the actual purpose of doing this?

I do have to ask....how many women are comfortable if their husband had a collection of modestly dressed, no tight cloths, fully covered, totally modest, pictures of beautiful women he liked to look at?

I probably wouldn't have a huge problem with it. Girls are beautiful. If he ever started telling me that I had to look like one of them or something like that I'd be a bit uncomfortable.

But 99% of what you seem to be refuting hasnt been asserted here.
No one said RN's are ALWAYS bad
No one sais that porn is SOMETIMES good
No one said men are not aroused by words
No one said women are ONLY aroused by emotions
What causes so much inference?
Women will absolutely CLING to this notion and I will tell you why.
Women CANNOT get their minds around the fact that men are not innately worse than women. As long as they can hang sex sexuality, porn whatever on mens necks, men stay on their heels in the realm of morality, and women stay more pristine.

This is one of the most destructive things I've read so far. [SOME] women CANNOT get their minds around that fact, but others CAN. If the problem is that some women are hanging sexual sins on their mens necks, that they are holding it over their heads and treating them poorly while admitting nothing is wrong, then I'm okay with that. The desire to prove this though be turning something like romantic desire into a sin isn't solving the issue, it's only creating a whole other problem. Two problems don't form a solution.

FACT....an innocent romance story with NO SEX can create a problem

I can agree with this, but you have to remember that there should be emphasis on that "an innocent romance story with NO SEX CAN create a problem".

PLEASE GET THIS!!!!! Its NOT about the SEX in the books!
I know its easier if it was about sex, because then men lose that argument because we are so "bad" in that area. So you keep comparing the SEX in the books to porn. Thats NOT THE POINT!

Look, I am a woman who watches pornography with a husband who is not a fan of porn. I understand that it's NOT about the sex. I'm also not an idiot though, and you have repeatedly used porn to manipulate this discussion. If porn is brought into the discussion than it's something you can hold over a woman's head who enjoys Romantic Novels. If you want to get the point across, using porn as an example is just not a good way.

I dont care if you disagree....but please take the time to see what you are disagreeing WITH. It gets to the point of disrespectful when we have to repeat ad nauseum what we are saying.

TBH, this is an example of playing the victim's card. No one is being disrespectful just because they are adimate about that they disagree with what you are saying. You don't HAVE to repeat yourself, but if you choose to don't act like anyone is putting you down or treating you with disrespect because you feel it is necessary. Trust me, I'm getting tired of repeating points that keep being completely missed as well.

Would you mind if your husband had pics of women's faces only and enjoyed looking at them?
I know the answer.....yes...hes a man...he is still thinking of sex....

Again, if he desired to look at those pictures, I'm probably not going to stop him. If he had an issue with hoarding them or tried to deck something out where I had to look at it all the time, I'd probably not appreciate it. Girls are pretty though, heck, I have some pictures of girls I look at because they are pretty, I'd love to look like them. If he started pushing me though and comparing me, then that would be an issue and we'd probably have to get rid of them.

The "Christian Romance novel" is just as bad.
That the single gal and guy remain chaste is irrelevant....the reader sees things in the man that are appealing. In fact Id say for Christian women they may be even MORE dangerous.

Again, the premise of your argument, that the woman sees things in the man that are appealing and she wishes her husband could be like isn't the part that is dangerous. Working and talking and dealing with my husband and helping him understand that I need him to listen to me more or to be a little more gentle or a little more rough with certain things, there is nothing wrong with that. Just like if he feels like I'm not taking care of myself, like I'm not having sex enough with him, etc. I listen and take care of those words. Without describing things that would be more appealing, desireable, etc. there is no open dialogue, which TBH, wouldn't be very healthy for my marriage.

 

[Created2Write]

I haven't read much of this thread, but I have read Christian and secular romance novels, and I think they both can be just as damaging as porn.

Porn projects impossible expectations on the relationship in the area of sex, and the interactions therein. It induces physical and sexual stimuli, making it easy to become addicted to. It involves bringing people NOT in the marriage of the person/s viewing it, into the marriage. Comparisons are made, and spouses are found wanting, damage is done. (This is in general terms, as I have never watched porn, nor has my husband.)

Romance novels project equally impossible expectations on the relationship, as no man or woman can compare to the characters in the novel. It induces physical and sexual stimuli as you have to imagine the sex scenes you're reading on paper, which makes it highly addictive. The sex scenes that don't involve rape are portrayed as moments of breathless passion between two people who are usually unmarried. The female usually disregards the very dangerous flaws in the man she's making love to, and suddenly(once the sex is over) the two are irrisesistably drawn to each other in love, when they weren't in love prior. The men of this world are compared to the men of fiction, our men are found wanting, and can not compete with the men in the novels. Damage is done.

Even in Christian novels, this damage is done, as the men in those novels are without the flaws in the secular novels, making them almost perfect. This is unrealistic, and dangerous ground to be messing with.

Granted, they are not exactly the same, but I believe the damage is. In porn, usually the damage is done on the female of the relationship, since she can't compare to women in porn(although the opposite can be true), while in romance novels, the damage is done on the male of the relationship, since he can't compare to the man in the novel(although, again, the opposite can be true.) I am 100% against romance novels.

 

[dinonum]

I haven't read much of this thread, but I have read Christian and secular romance novels, and I think they both can be just as damaging as porn.

Porn projects impossible expectations on the relationship in the area of sex, and the interactions therein. It induces physical and sexual stimuli, making it easy to become addicted to. It involves bringing people NOT in the marriage of the person/s viewing it, into the marriage. Comparisons are made, and spouses are found wanting, damage is done. (This is in general terms, as I have never watched porn, nor has my husband.)

Romance novels project equally impossible expectations on the relationship, as no man or woman can compare to the characters in the novel. It induces physical and sexual stimuli as you have to imagine the sex scenes you're reading on paper, which makes it highly addictive. The sex scenes that don't involve rape are portrayed as moments of breathless passion between two people who are usually unmarried. The female usually disregards the very dangerous flaws in the man she's making love to, and suddenly(once the sex is over) the two are irrisesistably drawn to each other in love, when they weren't in love prior. The men of this world are compared to the men of fiction, our men are found wanting, and can not compete with the men in the novels. Damage is done.

Even in Christian novels, this damage is done, as the men in those novels are without the flaws in the secular novels, making them almost perfect. This is unrealistic, and dangerous ground to be messing with.

Granted, they are not exactly the same, but I believe the damage is. In porn, usually the damage is done on the female of the relationship, since she can't compare to women in porn(although the opposite can be true), while in romance novels, the damage is done on the male of the relationship, since he can't compare to the man in the novel(although, again, the opposite can be true.) I am 100% against romance novels.

I'm glad to see a woman post on this subject, even if I disagree to a point

The biggest issue with this entire thread is that using pornography in this thread is more for shock value rather than for actual reasonable discussion against romance novels. Just flat out saying that romance novels can be destructive to marriages would be better than trying to make women feel bad for being against their men watching pornography whilst being fans of romantic novels. As I have said previously, comparing pornography and romantic novels is like comparing romantic novels and the Bible is like comparing the Bible to soap operas is like comparing soap operas to all music.

I realize that you haven't read the rest of the thread, lol, I don't blame you it's A LOT of posts.

 

[Conservativation]

Con,

The trouble lies not in the novels . . . . but in the fact that we all tend to compare ourselves and/or our spouses to others. It's like what what said earlier about Martha Stewart or June Cleaver . . . . or anyone that can be held up as an "ideal" that the spouse then has to compete with. If you wife was doing that with a romance novel or a Popular Mechanics magazine, it would have the same end result.

It's not the medium (romance novel, magazine, tv show, neighbor's spouse) that is the problem. The problem is in how people use it for comparison.

We've all agreed that porn is wrong because it has no redeemable value.

I think you've mistaken a personal issue in you own life with something that isn't inherently bad or sinful. If your wife had been reading something else and then comparing you to THAT image . . . . you'd have the same bias against that item as well (we'll use Popular Mechanic magazine as our example). You might consider women who read Popular Mechanic as more likely to be lusting after or negatively comparing their husbands to images/people depicted in that magazine.

Personally, I think that THIS topic isn't what's addressed in the original question. I feel we've probably already addressed that topic and moved on to this.

Uh, nope.....psychoanalysis off the mark. Ive not nor has my wife had any of these issues.

First, by moving to a higher view and saying the problem isnt the medium, its the comparison, we are headed to one of those truths that lack utility.

I could move up even more and simply say, nah, its not the comparing....its generally just sin...if we could stop the sinning this wouldnt be an issue.

NO, we live down here, in the details. And if a THING is part of a process then the thing must be addressed.

Even saying porn has no redeeming value while true, its a little bit off. Porn sitting in a locked box somewhere, with no one looking at it, has no negative or positive.....its just there....kinda like guns...PEOPLE get the urge and go and do the wrong thing. If you see that comment as pro porn you read it dead wrong. Its just a statement about an inanimate object, and before you break into my analogy with YES but the process of making the porn...thats 100% correct.....but Ive made an exact statement about THE PORN....sitting in a locked box.....my statement is limited to it BEING there, not making it, not using it. So in that way its kind of benign in the redeeming value...now if you want to say porn USE has no redeeming value you betcha.


Yes anyone or anything CAN be held up as a comparison...but seriously....thats just not relevant. I COULD wish my wife could carry things on her back like a horse to be silly here......

We are talking about something that begins with an unmet NEED/WANT, then a medium that whether intentionally (porn) or not.....starts setting up what ifs and comparisons.

Look, Im not saying YOU are wrong reading it. Thats not the point. I am saying it has POTENTIAL to be a problem, where sure porn IS a problem....so?

I know its very very hard for women to allow themselves to be put in any way on a level moral playing field with men. Ive seen even remarks in this thread about lecherous men. Sorry ladies, just because the church is afriad to preach it, your husbands are afraid to say it, and societal norms definately reject it, doesnt make it true.

This lack of perceived moral equivalency has been empirically proven in the church. When ASKED "do you think women are morally superior?" even that question, if a secret ballot, shows that both men and women think that they are. If I asked women here, in the open, I dount any would say so...but maybe some would.

DO YOU? You think thats true? Im askin......please answer Im curious.

It doesnt jive with anything Biblical at all....but it shapes the Christian marriage relationahip, both within the couple, and within the community as we view couples.

The novels vs porn is just a manifestation of it.

 

[Conservativation]

I'm glad to see a woman post on this subject, even if I disagree to a point

The biggest issue with this entire thread is that using pornography in this thread is more for shock value rather than for actual reasonable discussion against romance novels. Just flat out saying that romance novels can be destructive to marriages would be better than trying to make women feel bad for being against their men watching pornography whilst being fans of romantic novels. As I have said previously, comparing pornography and romantic novels is like comparing romantic novels and the Bible is like comparing the Bible to soap operas is like comparing soap operas to all music.

I realize that you haven't read the rest of the thread, lol, I don't blame you it's A LOT of posts.

The comparison certainly isnt to justify porn.

it IS a needed comparison because maybe not overtly, but the women of the church are on a moral high horse...sorry to say.

 

[dallasapple]

I'm glad to see a woman post on this subject, even if I disagree to a point

The biggest issue with this entire thread is that using pornography in this thread is more for shock value rather than for actual reasonable discussion against romance novels. Just flat out saying that romance novels can be destructive to marriages would be better than trying to make women feel bad for being against their men watching pornography whilst being fans of romantic novels. As I have said previously, comparing pornography and romantic novels is like comparing romantic novels and the Bible is like comparing the Bible to soap operas is like comparing soap operas to all music.

I realize that you haven't read the rest of the thread, lol, I don't blame you it's A LOT of posts.

I agree with everything you have been saying on this thread.It does seem like its for shock value...

Also saying romance novels "can be harmful" to some marriages?So? It makes more sense though if you are going to compare it to something you can compare it to IRL couples where the husband in the relationship has all these qualities that make "some" women swoon and "wish their husband would be more like that".

Would you then compare that couple to pornography?

Because that does happen.The example that you have in which a woman(or a man) is using to compare their spouse over doesnt have to be "perfect" either...It can just be a quality or a manner of behavior or the couples lifestyle etc...

Im just saying what the threat is in romance novels for "some women" it makes no sense to compare it to porn..or even limit it to comparing it to porn for the reasons it can be a threat ...

Love

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

The problem with this though is that it has nothing to do with actual romance novels. Everyone has an image of what the ideal man or woman would be like. The things you are talking about infer that almost all movies and all books and all songs and etc. are equal to pornography.

This is exactly right.Thats what Im trying to say too..Except what Im trying to say it wouldnt be limited to made up stuff..It could be another couple..Even the exapmple of Kevin Bacon and Kira Sedwick in the athiest divorce rate..There views on marriage ...one man commented on a quote she made about shes happy if they can get in dinner,a movie and sex..if not dinner and sex is fine with her..

One man commented "yep that would do it for me"..He didnt exactly say 'I wish my wife was like that".. but you could definately see how that comparison could be made.

But I wouldnt then say its equal to if he had watched a porn flick.

Love

Dallas

 

[JanniGirl]

Con,

The problem is that you are trying to steer the conversation/thread to your personal views that society views women as intrinsically better or more moral than men. If you want to have THAT discussion, then post it as a topic on a different thread.

This one is about whether or not romance novels can be equated with porn. The general consensus is that these novels can be, but not all are.

Your limiting the discussion of porn to simply being something never used, in a box is irrelevant. What does that have to do with anything? Really? -- It could be a sock, gun, bomb, whatever in the box. The act of making porn, that it exists . . . . that is bad. Couple that with the sinful aspect of viewing and perhaps, masterbating to the porn and it gets even worse. Apply that to fantasies the viewer has while participating in sexual relations with his/her spouse and you have additional sin associated with porn. Porn is always bad.

I really think you're just trying to turn this conversation (like so many others) into some sort of gender war.

 

[dallasapple]

Con,

The problem is that you are trying to steer the conversation/thread to your personal views that society views women as intrinsically better or more moral than men. If you want to have THAT discussion, then post it as a topic on a different thread.

This one is about whether or not romance novels can be equated with porn. The general consensus is that these novels can be, but not all are.

Your limiting the discussion of porn to simply being something never used, in a box is irrelevant. What does that have to do with anything? Really? -- It could be a sock, gun, bomb, whatever in the box. The act of making porn, that it exists . . . . that is bad. Couple that with the sinful aspect of viewing and perhaps, masterbating to the porn and it gets even worse. Apply that to fantasies the viewer has while participating in sexual relations with his/her spouse and you have additional sin associated with porn. Porn is always bad.

I really think you're just trying to turn this conversation (like so many others) into some sort of gender war.

Yes ..also with the porn..Im sorry but many people are injured..physically and emotionally in the industry..

And also one is completely fiction..porn is in fact real live human beings being paid to perform sexual acts..It is prostitution being filmed.It really happened between the actors..Some aspects of some of it may not be real..as in women faking [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] or how much they are enjoying it..And the men not faking [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] but maybe hiding how they feel emotionally or exagerating how much they are really into it..Some lighing and body make up to hide some imperfections..Cutting out the scenes where they may vomit or bleed...

Other than that its real.Its real human beings..Their real bodies..Performing like show poodles sexually for people to specifically touch too..

I would not compare that to 'some women" swooning over some made up Character named "Fabio" in a romance novel.

Love

Dallas

 

[Conservativation]

Con,

The problem is that you are trying to steer the conversation/thread to your personal views that society views women as intrinsically better or more moral than men. If you want to have THAT discussion, then post it as a topic on a different thread.

This one is about whether or not romance novels can be equated with porn. The general consensus is that these novels can be, but not all are.

Your limiting the discussion of porn to simply being something never used, in a box is irrelevant. What does that have to do with anything? Really? -- It could be a sock, gun, bomb, whatever in the box. The act of making porn, that it exists . . . . that is bad. Couple that with the sinful aspect of viewing and perhaps, masterbating to the porn and it gets even worse. Apply that to fantasies the viewer has while participating in sexual relations with his/her spouse and you have additional sin associated with porn. Porn is always bad.

I really think you're just trying to turn this conversation (like so many others) into some sort of gender war.

Think what you will. Youd be wrong....but ....

Im trying to explain WHY .....

Or perhaps you can explain it for me


WHY does this topic line up with women arguing that there is no comparison? Is it raw coincidence? seriously....why , if its SO obvious, do men see it one way and women the other?

its an important question. Please answerr

 

[jham123]

^^It never ends......if Porn is the topic.....women line up to brow beat any man that dare defend it.......yet these are the same women that defend RMs till the bitter end.

And both "reasons given" are the same..."because women think it, therefore it is so"

 

[Created2Write]

I agree with you Cons.

I think it's ridiculous to compare romance novels to other books and movies. I'm sure there are some movies and books that would compare, but generally movies and books don't glamorize faults of the characters like romance novels do. Besides, most movies have other points to it besides just getting two characters to sleep together. Romance novels revolve around the main female character and the main male character, and getting them to sleep together. I only ever read one romance novel where that wasn't the point of it, and it was the only romance novel I read where the couple was married before they had sex.

THAT is why I am against romance novels. The point of them, is getting the main characters to have sex, and then fix all the drama they have afterwords, whilst glamorizing the guy's faults, and making him irresistible to her, regardless of how dangerous the guy might be. In one novel I read, a guy kidnaps a girl for his own gain, she falls in love with his dark personality(and the fact that he does everything perfect at the perfect time), they have sex, she loves him more, and he continues on with the kidnapping; FOUR others I read involved women daring the main male character to try and seduce them, for some gain the woman needed; by the end of the novel, they'd already had sex, despite the fact that there was no love between them-NOT good message to women. And that's only two examples.

Yes, some movies do similar things, but usually there are consequences to those actions, and the faults aren't NEARLY as glamorized. Not to mention the very drastic sex scenes that induce very strong, sexual stimuli in the person reading.

 

[dallasapple]

^^It never ends......if Porn is the topic.....women line up to brow beat any man that dare defend it.......yet these are the same women that defend RMs till the bitter end.

And both "reasons given" are the same..."because women think it, therefore it is so"

Because RM'S arent the same as two(or more) real people boinking in front of a camera.They arent..Having said that I would not encourage or defend a woman that was so wrapped up in romance novels(or anythign for that matter) that she neglected her husband or because of that saw him as "not good enough".

And I dont "brow beat " myself men who watch porn nor the rising amount of women who do so as well..

Not to mention I have "read" Playboy and Penthouse..there are versions of "romance" novels in there..Mini stories things like "My Perfect Date By "Jessica"..

I just will never compare stark naked people actually having sex(on film that you then watch and its honestly made to touch to) to a fictional story in a book..that may titilate or possibly cause a woman to "wish her husband was more like that"..

Love

Dallas

 

[dinonum]

The comparison certainly isnt to justify porn.

it IS a needed comparison because maybe not overtly, but the women of the church are on a moral high horse...sorry to say.

SOME of the women of the church.

The problem is though that when men try to make this comparison and then repeatedly make points which rely solely on women HATING pornography and treating their husbands poorly over it.

Porn is disliked for more than just one reason, and if the ONLY reason is because of a husband who is comparing his wife to a porn star, the problem isn't with the porn it's with the husband. The same goes for those who read romance novels and start comparing their husband to the main character.

 

[dinonum]

I agree with everything you have been saying on this thread.It does seem like its for shock value...

Also saying romance novels "can be harmful" to some marriages?So? It makes more sense though if you are going to compare it to something you can compare it to IRL couples where the husband in the relationship has all these qualities that make "some" women swoon and "wish their husband would be more like that".

Would you then compare that couple to pornography?

Because that does happen.The example that you have in which a woman(or a man) is using to compare their spouse over doesnt have to be "perfect" either...It can just be a quality or a manner of behavior or the couples lifestyle etc...

Im just saying what the threat is in romance novels for "some women" it makes no sense to compare it to porn..or even limit it to comparing it to porn for the reasons it can be a threat ...

Love

Dallas

Well, and I'm not sure if I ever said it, but my husband and I go through this a lot. I don't want to talk too much about my marriage because we've dealt a lot with hearing my cousin tell her husband "Why can't you treat me like Andrew treats Liz?" We are far from perfect, but a LOT of people look up to us because we've been through quite a bit in a short time and are still going strong and happy and in love and act like newlyweds.

 

[dinonum]

^^It never ends......if Porn is the topic.....women line up to brow beat any man that dare defend it.......yet these are the same women that defend RMs till the bitter end.

And both "reasons given" are the same..."because women think it, therefore it is so"

Again, I am not brow beating anyone about pornography and I STILL disagree.