Submitting Torah Observance To New Covenant Principles

[meslit]

There is only one Gospel whose power and gracious freedom overcomes sin and death throughout the world. But if the Gospel's freedom is suppressed for the sake of upholding the Law (Torah), then those that put Torah above the Gospel must abandon the contradictory elements of their theology and submit their Torah observance to New Covenant principles. This does not mandate the banning of Torah observance; however, it does restrict Torah observance to that of "non-obligatory" compliance in Messianic Jewish worship and daily practice.

In Messianic congregations in the USA and abroad, doctrinal error due to explicit Torah observance appears to be wide spread. One must ask; Is it that hard to determine error from correct doctrine? What initially appeared to be a clear-cut issue of historical inaccuracy and miss-interpretation of Scripture twenty years ago, today appears to be a mute point among most Messianic brethren. Why so? Some of this lack of interest in historical and biblical accuracy is due to the human tendency to accept only the interpretation of scripture that fits one's doctrinal stand, no matter how absurd it may be. The other tendency is to believe false doctrine simply because it has not been rejected yet by its constituency. In either case, the reasons for accepting such doctrine are weak indeed.

In the 1980s some Messianic Jewish teachers came up with the idea that they could reshape Messianic believers perception of the "Gospel of Grace" and "Torah Observance" by simply re-inventing the persona of the Apostle Paul into the "Torah Observant "Rabbi Shaul", all accepting of modern Messianic Jewish thought. In doing so, they had to develop an approach that would disregard the accurate history of Paul in his evolution from "Saul of Tarsus" persecutor of the Church in Israel and the Diaspora, to "the Apostle Paul", church founder, teacher and evangelist to both Jew and Gentile alike. They would have to sell to their flock the idea that Paul remained Torah observant, even while ministering to the Gentiles in the Greco/Roman provinces of Asia Minor. They also had to assert that the proselytes of Rav Shaul were Torah observant. The task of selling this "spin" was simple for most of the devoted believers within the Messianic Jewish movement, but much less so for those educated in Church history and New Covenant teachings. Was this error one of confusion or design on the part of some Messianic leaders? I am sure we will know one day.

To be more specific, in the mid-90’s David Stern’s revolutionary book , "The Messianic Jewish Manifesto" started turning belief towards strict Torah Observance. I believe that Stern’s intent was that of dismantling the "Pauline" teachings of Grace, to revert back to the Law. He and other supportive Messianic Jews resented the teachings of Grace having supremacy over Torah. He therefore intentionally rebelled against New Covenant doctrine believing that Jews would not accept any Gospel except one that was totally Torah observant. In doing this, he and other supportive teachers adopted a dangerously heretical course. Strict Torah observance has now become the standard in much of the Messianic Jewish movement. Stern's book adopts a "Social Darwinist" form of deception by promoting an erroneous historical portrait of Paul to conform to his religious and social agenda. Social Darwinists justify promoting the "big lie" if it serves to promote the continuity of their social cause. It may have been a 'Freudian slip" when Stern used the term "manifesto" in his revolutionary book. Stern's use of Marx missed the Biblical mark!

There are also erroneous motivations underlying Torah Observant Messianic Jewish believer's acceptance of either the "Rav Shaul" or "Heretic Paul" historical scenarios. If you read between the lines in some of their statements, you will find that Torah Observant Messianic believers who know their history only give "lip service" supporting "Rav Shaul", and are actually Anti-Paul and consider his teachings heretical. In the USA, most Anti-Pauline Messianic Jewish believers hide behind the "Rav Shaul' history nonsense. In Israel though, most Anti-Paul MJs do not hide their sentiments concerning their oppostion to Pauline doctrine. Most Messianic Jews that support the Rav Shaul or Heretic Paul historical scenario, do so for the sake of what they perceive to be a necessity. They truly believe that only by holding to an erroneous viewpoint that supports obligatory Torah Observance will they successfully evangelize the Jewish people.

We should question Torah Observant Messianic Jewish doctrine seriously by first concentrating on the teachings in the epistles to the Hebrews, Romans and Galatians. Above all the other apostles, Paul was given the divine task of proclaiming the principles of the New Covenant to Jew and Gentile believer alike. Let us endeavor to take His new revelation to heart. The "Messianic Literary Corner" has published a study series entitled "Submitting Torah Observance To New Covenant Principles" to discuss this very important doctrinal topic.

 

[ContraMundum]

Thanks for posting this. I agree with parts of it, as I have seen the Law of Christ submitted to elements of the Torah as if Christ was of lesser authority!

The truth be told, many of the teachers you speak of in this post do not properly exegete the scriptures, but they harp on and on about how "the Church" (a nebulous, hopelessly corrupt and unspiritual entity according to them) doesn't understand them.

Let's see if "Messianic Literary Corner" does any better.

 

[meslit]

Hello CM,

Thanks for adding your thoughts to this thread. My thoughts regarding the MJ teachings distorting the historicity of Paul is nothing new. What is new is my analysis of how and why TOMJs choose to believe a lie, especially with regards to believing the "BIG LIE". They have been indoctrinated to believe that Grace Oriented teachings will strip them of their Jewishness. So despite their knowledge of scripture they will choose the lie (Heretic Paul and/or Rav Shaul).

In Messiah's grace,

meslit

 

[visionary]

Could you please outline your perception of balance between the two?

 

[Steve Petersen]

New Perspectives on Paul originated outside the Messianic movement.

They have not 'spun' Paul into a Torah observant Jew; they have UNSPUN the Christian view that he abandoned the Torah. Paul is clear that he had never spoken against the Law and the Temple.

When accused of doing just that, he submitted to instructions from James to prove he had NOT.

 

[cyberlizard]

There is only one Gospel whose power and gracious freedom overcomes sin and death throughout the world. But if the Gospel's freedom is suppressed for the sake of upholding the Law (Torah), then those that put Torah above the Gospel must abandon the contradictory elements of their theology and submit their Torah observance to New Covenant principles. This does not mandate the banning of Torah observance; however, it does restrict Torah observance to that of "non-obligatory" compliance in Messianic Jewish worship and daily practice.

please can you give some direct examples of where Torah observance contradicts New Covenant principles.


Many thanks.


Steve

 

[notreligus]

There is only one Gospel whose power and gracious freedom overcomes sin and death throughout the world. But if the Gospel's freedom is suppressed for the sake of upholding the Law (Torah), then those that put Torah above the Gospel must abandon the contradictory elements of their theology and submit their Torah observance to New Covenant principles. This does not mandate the banning of Torah observance; however, it does restrict Torah observance to that of "non-obligatory" compliance in Messianic Jewish worship and daily practice.

In Messianic congregations in the USA and abroad, doctrinal error due to explicit Torah observance appears to be wide spread. One must ask; Is it that hard to determine error from correct doctrine? What initially appeared to be a clear-cut issue of historical inaccuracy and miss-interpretation of Scripture twenty years ago, today appears to be a mute point among most Messianic brethren. Why so? Some of this lack of interest in historical and biblical accuracy is due to the human tendency to accept only the interpretation of scripture that fits one's doctrinal stand, no matter how absurd it may be. The other tendency is to believe false doctrine simply because it has not been rejected yet by its constituency. In either case, the reasons for accepting such doctrine are weak indeed.

In the 1980s some Messianic Jewish teachers came up with the idea that they could reshape Messianic believers perception of the "Gospel of Grace" and "Torah Observance" by simply re-inventing the persona of the Apostle Paul into the "Torah Observant "Rabbi Shaul", all accepting of modern Messianic Jewish thought. In doing so, they had to develop an approach that would disregard the accurate history of Paul in his evolution from "Saul of Tarsus" persecutor of the Church in Israel and the Diaspora, to "the Apostle Paul", church founder, teacher and evangelist to both Jew and Gentile alike. They would have to sell to their flock the idea that Paul remained Torah observant, even while ministering to the Gentiles in the Greco/Roman provinces of Asia Minor. They also had to assert that the proselytes of Rav Shaul were Torah observant. The task of selling this "spin" was simple for most of the devoted believers within the Messianic Jewish movement, but much less so for those educated in Church history and New Covenant teachings. Was this error one of confusion or design on the part of some Messianic leaders? I am sure we will know one day.

To be more specific, in the mid-90’s David Stern’s revolutionary book , "The Messianic Jewish Manifesto" started turning belief towards strict Torah Observance. I believe that Stern’s intent was that of dismantling the "Pauline" teachings of Grace, to revert back to the Law. He and other supportive Messianic Jews resented the teachings of Grace having supremacy over Torah. He therefore intentionally rebelled against New Covenant doctrine believing that Jews would not accept any Gospel except one that was totally Torah observant. In doing this, he and other supportive teachers adopted a dangerously heretical course. Strict Torah observance has now become the standard in much of the Messianic Jewish movement. Stern's book adopts a "Social Darwinist" form of deception by promoting an erroneous historical portrait of Paul to conform to his religious and social agenda. Social Darwinists justify promoting the "big lie" if it serves to promote the continuity of their social cause. It may have been a 'Freudian slip" when Stern used the term "manifesto" in his revolutionary book. Stern's use of Marx missed the Biblical mark!

There are also erroneous motivations underlying Torah Observant Messianic Jewish believer's acceptance of either the "Rav Shaul" or "Heretic Paul" historical scenarios. If you read between the lines in some of their statements, you will find that Torah Observant Messianic believers who know their history only give "lip service" supporting "Rav Shaul", and are actually Anti-Paul and consider his teachings heretical. In the USA, most Anti-Pauline Messianic Jewish believers hide behind the "Rav Shaul' history nonsense. In Israel though, most Anti-Paul MJs do not hide their sentiments concerning their oppostion to Pauline doctrine. Most Messianic Jews that support the Rav Shaul or Heretic Paul historical scenario, do so for the sake of what they perceive to be a necessity. They truly believe that only by holding to an erroneous viewpoint that supports obligatory Torah Observance will they successfully evangelize the Jewish people.

We should question Torah Observant Messianic Jewish doctrine seriously by first concentrating on the teachings in the epistles to the Hebrews, Romans and Galatians. Above all the other apostles, Paul was given the divine task of proclaiming the principles of the New Covenant to Jew and Gentile believer alike. Let us endeavor to take His new revelation to heart. The "Messianic Literary Corner" has published a study series entitled "Submitting Torah Observance To New Covenant Principles" to discuss this very important doctrinal topic.

Excellent post. I have been saying for awhile now that the "new man" created in Christ is being cast aside and forgotten.

 

[visionary]

Hello CM,

Thanks for adding your thoughts to this thread. My thoughts regarding the MJ teachings distorting the historicity of Paul is nothing new. What is new is my analysis of how and why TOMJs choose to believe a lie, especially with regards to believing the "BIG LIE". They have been indoctrinated to believe that Grace Oriented teachings will strip them of their Jewishness. So despite their knowledge of scripture they will choose the lie (Heretic Paul and/or Rav Shaul).

In Messiah's grace,

meslit

Grace oriented teaching.... hmmm.. TOMJs choosing to believe a lie?? what lie.. whose the heretic?

If you picture God as the big rule giver with an iron rod without taking situations into consideration.. then I would say it is the very character of God upon which you blame...and thus explains why you think TOMJ's believe a lie..

You just might be perceiving God different than His Son in personality... I do not.. but see them both .. in OT and NT as very loving and full of grace.. Just as many have over the centuries have perceived more "tough love" rather than the new "loving" persona God doesn't change God. It changes our perception of Him. Paul went from seeing a strict God to a very loving God.. and in that saw a new covenant relationship. I see God has never changed.

His law has not changed, but it is who gets to handle the judgments, punishments, and services. There has been a re-assignment of tasks. With a better perspective, I let God handle the big stuff, and I allow for Him to work in me and through me. .. and by His Grace.. I live and have my being. Does that mean that I do not observe all that He instills in my heart to do according to His Laws? Of course not.. I am like Paul still living according to the Law, but without the fringe "traditions" that different religious organizations have added.

 

[ContraMundum]

New Perspectives on Paul originated outside the Messianic movement.

They have not 'spun' Paul into a Torah observant Jew; they have UNSPUN the Christian view that he abandoned the Torah. Paul is clear that he had never spoken against the Law and the Temple.

When accused of doing just that, he submitted to instructions from James to prove he had NOT.

I'm not convinced NPP is going to stand the test of time. It seems to be faltering already.

 

[ContraMundum]

please can you give some direct examples of where Torah observance contradicts New Covenant principles.

I don't think anyone could win that argument. Why? The disagreement is about what constitutes New Covenant principles.

For example, I could say that Tim Hegg's doctrine of forcing people to keep all of the Mosaic Law is a clear attack on grace, but all you simply have to say is that either a) I don't understand Hegg, b) I have the NT wrong, c) I have the Torah wrong or d) Paul was a heretic anyway....and we're back to square one. Repeat ad infinitum.

Until people are prepared to properly exegete scripture it's all really a waste of time.

 

[visionary]

I believe MJ's are happy in the grace they have found in Yeshua. Torah observances are refitted to given situations such as no temple, no temple services, no need for animal slaughter since His sacrifice.. but the basic ten words are still followed in heart and in deed even without traditions.

 

[meslit]

please can you give some direct examples of where Torah observance contradicts New Covenant principles.


Many thanks.


Steve

Steve,

How many examples would you like? Diet, sabbath, holidays, liturgical garb, etc. Below are NC scriptural verses written by the Apostle Paul, not Rav Shaul. Obviously Rav Shaul would never say such a thing, so there must be another interpretation!

My first reference is: Colossians 2:16 "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."

My second reference is: 1 Corinthians 10:23-27 "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible--but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.​

My third reference in the area of food is: Romans 14:14 "As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean"​

Torah observant Jews and Gentiles throw their freedom in Christ away. My article is not anti-Torah. Neither was Paul. But the Biblical-historical Apostle Paul differs greatly from the fabricated Messianic version of Paul (or Rav Shaul). The fact is that the apostle Paul never endorsed Torah Observance in the manner which Torah Observant Messianic Jews do today, but rather preached a "Doctrine of Grace".

If you are a Gentile Christian that has been seduced into becoming a Messianic Gentile, you probably remember being instructed in your local church about the Doctrine of Grace. If you don't know anything about it and how it stands against obligatory Torah observance, I would be happy to point you to many writings or a grace orientied MJ pastor in your area.

If you are a Jewish believer in Yeshua, I would like to introduce you to the REAL Gospel, not a false gospel that denys the freedoms given you by the Messiah Himself.

 

[meslit]

I believe MJ's are happy in the grace they have found in Yeshua. Torah observances are refitted to given situations such as no temple, no temple services, no need for animal slaughter since His sacrifice.. but the basic ten words are still followed in heart and in deed even without traditions.

Dear Visionary,

Your empathy for Jewish beleivers is appreciated. Nevetheless, if any form of teaching or worship deny's the truths of the gospel, it must be accounted as error! I have been a Messianic Jew since 1973. I have lived through all the phases of MJ organization and worship. In the 70s and 80s most MJ Congregations held to grace teachings with some Torah observance. In the 90s though, a change came from anti-Pauline (Pauls doctrine of Grace) MJ teachers that deny the freedoms of preached by Yeshua and Paul. The Torah observant MJ movement has built its foundation upon historical and doctrinal distortions. We must be wise to subtle but harmful teachings.

 

[visionary]

Dear Visionary,

Your empathy for Jewish beleivers is appreciated. Nevetheless, if any form of teaching or worship deny's the truths of the gospel, it must be accounted as error! I have been a Messianic Jew since 1973. I have lived through all the phases of MJ organization and worship. In the 70s and 80s most MJ Congregations held to grace teachings with some Torah observance. In the 90s though, a change came from anti-Pauline (Pauls doctrine of Grace) MJ teachers that deny the freedoms of preached by Yeshua and Paul. The Torah observant MJ movement has built its foundation upon historical and doctrinal distortions. We must be wise to subtle but harmful teachings.

If you believe you have freedoms live them. I do not see any evidence that things have changed in the animals to warrant their re-classifications as you have indicated. God outlined what is good for our dietary health and He should know. I see no changes in God's appointed calendar in the heavens to warrant us to believe that it is changed as church traditions are teaching. What was clearly understood 50 years ago by the verses you give for the liberties you are taking in your faith today, are not something that can be construed or upheld under the light of consistency, accuracy, context, or common sense knowing God does not change. To come to this section of the CF and accuse us of harmful teachings, must be substanciated with how it is harmful to our relationship with God or His Son. I submit to you, the only harm it does is not to those of us who believe it, but to you because we stand as witnesses of the truth that it can be lived out in the lives of believers.

I know that you have probably been wrestling with the "works" of the law, and lost, thus grabbed the "grace" to withdraw from the battle over sin. Victory and overcoming the "works" and living in the "grace" while still in obedience is a true battle to be won in Him. Now that is a great victory I pray for all of us. You will only find that victory in Him.

Paul wrestled with that both inside his own heart and the heart of those around him. His letters are teeming with battles, fighting against traditions, against pagan practices, against the "works of the law" to live in the "spirit and intent of the law" as the Holy Spirit revealed to him. They are a great inspiration to us all.

May the spiritual pendulum that you are swinging on return to a balance only Christ can give.

 

[meslit]

If you believe you have freedoms live them. I do not see any evidence that things have changed in the animals to warrant their re-classifications as you have indicated. God outlined what is good for our dietary health and He should know. I see no changes in God's appointed calendar in the heavens to warrant us to believe that it is changed as church traditions are teaching. What was clearly understood 50 years ago by the verses you give for the liberties you are taking in your faith today, are not something that can be construed or upheld under the light of consistency, accuracy, context, or common sense knowing God does not change. To come to this section of the CF and accuse us of harmful teachings, must be substanciated with how it is harmful to our relationship with God or His Son. I submit to you, the only harm it does is not to those of us who believe it, but to you because we stand as witnesses of the truth that it can be lived out in the lives of believers.

I know that you have probably been wrestling with the "works" of the law, and lost, thus grabbed the "grace" to withdraw from the battle over sin. Victory and overcoming the "works" and living in the "grace" while still in obedience is a true battle to be won in Him. Now that is a great victory I pray for all of us. You will only find that victory in Him.

Paul wrestled with that both inside his own heart and the heart of those around him. His letters are teeming with battles, fighting against traditions, against pagan practices, against the "works of the law" to live in the "spirit and intent of the law" as the Holy Spirit revealed to him. They are a great inspiration to us all.

May the spiritual pendulum that you are swinging on return to a balance only Christ can give.

Dear Visionary,

You stated "To come to this section of the CF and accuse us of harmful teachings, must be substanciated with how it is harmful to our relationship with God or His Son. I submit to you, the only harm it does is not to those of us who believe it, but to you because we stand as witnesses of the truth that it can be lived out in the lives of believers."

I apologize for being offensive towards your beliefs. You may not be used to someone who exhibits a zeal for the grace of the Gospel. I am sure you have witnessed those with a zeal for the Torah! You should understand that from a biblical perspective the entire Torah Observant Jewish and Gentile movements are houses built on sand. A few buckets of water (the Holy Spirit) would only serve to cleanse a house built on a firm foundation, but would be fatal to one built on mans teachings. So please bear with me. If you have a few twinges of pain resulting from the Spirit contradicting your teachings, it is only supernatural.

 

[visionary]

Dear Visionary,

You stated "To come to this section of the CF and accuse us of harmful teachings, must be substanciated with how it is harmful to our relationship with God or His Son. I submit to you, the only harm it does is not to those of us who believe it, but to you because we stand as witnesses of the truth that it can be lived out in the lives of believers."

I apologize for being offensive towards your beliefs. You may not be used to someone who exhibits a zeal for the grace of the Gospel. I am sure you have witnessed those with a zeal for the Torah! You should understand that from a biblical perspective the entire Torah Observant Jewish and Gentile movements are houses built on sand. A few buckets of water (the Holy Spirit) would only serve to cleanse a house built on a firm foundation, but would be fatal to one built on mans teachings. So please bear with me. If you have a few twinges of pain resulting from the Spirit contradicting your teachings, it is only supernatural.

The teachings that the Lord has given me do not contradict what the Holy Spirit has been teaching me. By the knowledge of the Law, and the leading of the Holy Spirit, I live a life that exemplifies Him, and by His grace I will continue to follow Him..

I know it is a narrow path and few can follow. I know it is God's and not man's. I know that it is in God's strength it can be done. I know it is God's spirit it can be done right. I know that it spiritual draws me near to Him.

Let me give you an example...

As Shabbat begins, my world is set aside to focus on Him by these standards...

Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

I learn just how much the world encroaches in on my relationship with Him. I learn what sin is trying to overcome and overwhelm me. I also receive blessings and insights into the Word of God that help me gain wisdom and build on my relationship with Him and with those around me. That can not be done outside the harmony of God's world.

 

[cyberlizard]

Steve,

How many examples would you like? Diet, sabbath, holidays, liturgical garb, etc. Below are NC scriptural verses written by the Apostle Paul, not Rav Shaul. Obviously Rav Shaul would never say such a thing, so there must be another interpretation!

My first reference is: Colossians 2:16 "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."

My second reference is: 1 Corinthians 10:23-27 "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible--but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.​

My third reference in the area of food is: Romans 14:14 "As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean"​

Torah observant Jews and Gentiles throw their freedom in Christ away. My article is not anti-Torah. Neither was Paul. But the Biblical-historical Apostle Paul differs greatly from the fabricated Messianic version of Paul (or Rav Shaul). The fact is that the apostle Paul never endorsed Torah Observance in the manner which Torah Observant Messianic Jews do today, but rather preached a "Doctrine of Grace".

If you are a Gentile Christian that has been seduced into becoming a Messianic Gentile, you probably remember being instructed in your local church about the Doctrine of Grace. If you don't know anything about it and how it stands against obligatory Torah observance, I would be happy to point you to many writings or a grace orientied MJ pastor in your area.

If you are a Jewish believer in Yeshua, I would like to introduce you to the REAL Gospel, not a false gospel that denys the freedoms given you by the Messiah Himself.

and herein lies the problem.


Jesus based the authority of the written elements of his teaching on the words of Moses which he regarded as completely authoritative.

So we have a couple of choices with the select verses of Paul you have quoted. First he appears to disagree with Moses, teaching against Torah which would according to Torah make him a false prophet, or we are not understanding him properly.

But I think your comment betrays you to some degree. You say if a gentile is a Messianic Gentile (your words) we have been seduced. Seduced into what... Torah.

Tell me, Paul says anyone who allows himself to be circumcised is obligated to follow the whole Torah. Why then did Paul circumcise Timothy, making him subject to the whole Torah. We cannot have it both ways. Either the whole Torah stands for Messianic Jews or it does not. As to gentile Torah observance, that is according to the didache a matter of their own conscience.

To become a disciple of Jesus demands that we are instructed to obey everything Jesus commanded and that included elements of Torah.

Not to mention Paul instructing believers (Corinthians was a mixed multitude) to keep the feast of Passover.



Steve

p.s. the truth is, gentile Christians are already keeping huge swathes of Torah anyway.

There are two paths, one is to place believers above the law. The other is to have believers have no law, making them lawless. You cannot have it both ways.

 

[TertiusC]

Steve,

How many examples would you like? Diet, sabbath, holidays, liturgical garb, etc. Below are NC scriptural verses written by the Apostle Paul, not Rav Shaul. Obviously Rav Shaul would never say such a thing, so there must be another interpretation!

My first reference is: Colossians 2:16 "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."

My second reference is: 1 Corinthians 10:23-27 "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible--but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.​

My third reference in the area of food is: Romans 14:14 "As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean"​

Torah observant Jews and Gentiles throw their freedom in Christ away. My article is not anti-Torah. Neither was Paul. But the Biblical-historical Apostle Paul differs greatly from the fabricated Messianic version of Paul (or Rav Shaul). The fact is that the apostle Paul never endorsed Torah Observance in the manner which Torah Observant Messianic Jews do today, but rather preached a "Doctrine of Grace".

If you are a Gentile Christian that has been seduced into becoming a Messianic Gentile, you probably remember being instructed in your local church about the Doctrine of Grace. If you don't know anything about it and how it stands against obligatory Torah observance, I would be happy to point you to many writings or a grace orientied MJ pastor in your area.

If you are a Jewish believer in Yeshua, I would like to introduce you to the REAL Gospel, not a false gospel that denys the freedoms given you by the Messiah Himself.

I'm sorry if I'm late to the party!

Your profile says that you are Messianic yet you argue against following YHWH's Torah? I don't understand?

If you'd like I can show you the context of your scriptures to prove that they do not tell us that we should not observe Torah.

Again, late to the party! So I don't really know who you're fighting against. I'm a Messianic believer that tries to follow Torah out of love for my Creator. If my love obliges me then I guess out of obligation. But it will by no means win me a ticket to relationship with YHWH, relationship comes first.

 

[visionary]

Dear Visionary,

Your empathy for Jewish beleivers is appreciated. Nevetheless, if any form of teaching or worship deny's the truths of the gospel, it must be accounted as error! I have been a Messianic Jew since 1973. I have lived through all the phases of MJ organization and worship. In the 70s and 80s most MJ Congregations held to grace teachings with some Torah observance. In the 90s though, a change came from anti-Pauline (Pauls doctrine of Grace) MJ teachers that deny the freedoms of preached by Yeshua and Paul. The Torah observant MJ movement has built its foundation upon historical and doctrinal distortions. We must be wise to subtle but harmful teachings.

We the congregation still have a lot to say about which direction the MJ movement is heading. Be a part of the solution to this delicate balance that is found in Yeshua. Finding that balance.. will answer how does one submit to Torah Observances in the New Covenant principles..

 

[meslit]

The teachings that the Lord has given me do not contradict what the Holy Spirit has been teaching me. By the knowledge of the Law, and the leading of the Holy Spirit, I live a life that exemplifies Him, and by His grace I will continue to follow Him..

I know it is a narrow path and few can follow. I know it is God's and not man's. I know that it is in God's strength it can be done. I know it is God's spirit it can be done right. I know that it spiritual draws me near to Him.

Let me give you an example...

As Shabbat begins, my world is set aside to focus on Him by these standards...

Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

I learn just how much the world encroaches in on my relationship with Him. I learn what sin is trying to overcome and overwhelm me. I also receive blessings and insights into the Word of God that help me gain wisdom and build on my relationship with Him and with those around me. That can not be done outside the harmony of God's world.

Dear Visionary,

From our conversation I believe you are a Gentile Messianic believer. The reason why I say this is because I have seldom met a Jewish believer who is so doctrinally caught up in Torah observance. It is usually the Gentile believers who are so enamoured at what most MJs usually consider to be obsessive.

Below is a portion of an article written by Dr Alan Polner-Levison, Pastor/Rabbi of Beit Shalom Ministries in the UK.

The Messianic Movement
and its Perpetual Identity Crisis
Dr. Alan Poyner-Levison​

Since the Messianic Movement became buoyant in the foremost thinking of Jewish believers' lives, it has gone in many directions both doctrinally as well as positionally. What were at one time known as Hebrew Christians are now calling themselves Messianic Jews? This is because at that time Hebrew Christians were exactly that: Jewish Believers in Jesus or Christian Jews. However, we have lately seen the emergence of a sub group that has grown out of this sound messianic position, and have become named the Jewish Roots Movement. These are in the main Gentiles that have become aware of the Jewish roots of their faith, and working on the premise of Romans 11:17 that they were grafted into the Jewish root, they have adopted in some cases virtually the whole Rabbinic order of worship which is what they understand as being Jewish. They will argue that they are part of the one new man that Scripture speaks of in Ephesians 2:15, which makes them Jewish, so they should be partakers of all aspects of Jewish life. Now if this is not alarming enough, a third culture has also developed which calls itself the Two House Ephraimite Movement which teaches that the Gentile believers in Yeshua are the physical descendants of the ten lost tribes of the Kingdom of Israel which is also known as Ephraim; hence the title Ephraimite.

Now I ask you, where are we going as a movement? If we desire to be biblical we must comply with Paul’s request in 1 Corinthian 4:6, Do not go beyond that which is written, and Titus 1:9, Encourage others by sound doctrine, and refute those who oppose it, and 1 Corinthian’s 11:2, Keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.

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