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Is Josephus considered a reliable Historian?

LittleLambofJesus

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Is Josephus considered a reliable historian and could YHWH have used him to record the Last Days events upon the OC Jewish Nation and Temple as described in the Olivet Discourse?

What are others views of this?

Below is some of the rather "bizarre" things that is recorded in his writings :groupray:

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm


By George Peter Holford
(Written in 1805)

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)​


Our Lord proceeded, "And fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven." [6]- Josephus has collected the chief of these portents together, and introduces his account by a reflection on the strangeness of that infatuation, which could induce his countrymen to give credit to impostors, and unfounded reports, whilst they disregarded the divine admonitions, confirmed, as he asserts they Were, by the following extraordinary signs :

1. "A meteor, resembling a sword, [7] hung over Jerusalem during one whole year." This could not be a comet, for it was stationary, and was visible for twelve successive months. A sword too, though a fit emblem for destruction, but ill represents a comet.

2. "On the eighth of the month Zanthicus, (before the feast of unleavened bread) at the ninth hour of the night, there shone round about the altar, and the circumjacent buildings of the temple, a light equal to the brightness of the day, which continued for the space of half an hour." This could not be the effect of lightning, nor of a vivid aurora borealis, for it was confined to a particular spoil and the light shone unintermittedly thirty minutes.

3. "As the High Priest were leading a heifer to the altar to be sacrificed, she brought forth a lamb, in the midst of the temple." Such is the strange account given by the historian. Some may regard it as a "Grecian fable," while others may think that they discern in this prodigy a miraculous rebuke of Jewish infidelity and impiety, for rejecting the ANTITYPICAL Lamb, who had offered Up Himself as an atonement, "once for all," and who, by thus completely fulfilling their design, had virtually abrogated the Levitical sacrifices. However this may be, the circumstances of the prodigy are remarkable. It did not occur in an obscure part of the city, but in the temple ; not at an ordinary time, but at the passover, the season of our LORD'S crucifixion in the presence, not of the vulgar merely, but of the High Priests and their attendants, and when they were leading the sacrifice to the altar.

4. "' About the sixth hour of the night, the eastern gate of the temple was seen to open without human assistance." When the guards informed the Curator of this event, he sent men to assist them in shutting it, who with great difficulty succeeded. -- This gate, as hath been observed already, 'Was of solid brass, and required twenty men to close it every evening. It could not have been opened by a "strong gust of wind," or a slight earthquake;" for Josephus says, it was secured by iron bolts And bars, which were let down into a large threshold; consisting of one entire stone." [8]

5. "Soon after the feast of the Passover, in various parts of the country, before the Setting of the sun, chariots and armed men were seen in the air, passing round about Jerusalem. " Neither could this portentous spectacle be occasioned by the aurora borealis, for it occurred before the setting of the sun ; or merely the fancy of a few villagers, gazing at the heavens, for it was seen in various parts of the country.

6. "At the subsequent feast of Pentecost, while the priests were going, by night, into the inner, temple to perform their customary ministrations, they first felt, as they said, a shaking, accompanied by an indistinct murmuring, and afterwards voices as of a multitude, saying, in a distinct and earnest manner, "LET US DEPART HENCE." This gradation will remind the reader of that awful transaction, which the feast of Pentecost *as principally instituted to commemorate. First, a shaking was heard ; this would naturally induce the priests to listen : an unintelligible murmur succeeds; this would more powerfully arrest their attention, and while it was thus awakened arid fixed, they heard, says Josephus, the voices as of a multitude, distinctly pronouncing the words "LET US DEPART HENCE." -- And accordingly, before the period for celebrating this feast returned, the Jewish war had commenced, and in the space of three years afterwards, Jerusalem was surrounded by the Roman army, the temple converted into a citadel, and its sacred courts streaming with the blood of human victims.

7. As the last and most fearful omen, Josephus relates that one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a rustic of the lower class, during the Feast of Tabernacles, suddenly exclaimed in the temple, "A voice from the east a voice from the west -- a voice from the four winds- a voice against Jerusalem and the temple -- a voice against bridegrooms and brides -- a voice against the whole people !" These words he incessantly proclaimed aloud both day and night, through all the streets of Jerusalem, for seven years and five months together, commencing at a time (A. D. 62) when the city was in a state of peace, and overflowing with prosperity, and terminating amidst the horrors of the siege. This disturber, having excited the attention of the magistracy, was brought before Albinus the Roman governor, who commanded that he should be scourged. But the severest stripes drew from him neither tears nor supplications. As he never thanked those who relieved, so neither did he complain of the injustice of those who struck him. And no other answer could the governor obtain to his interrogatories, but his usual denunciation of "Woe, woe to Jerusalem !" which he still continued to proclaim through the city, but especially during the festivals, when his manner became more earnest, and the tone of his voice louder. At length, on the commencement of the siege, he ascended the walls, and, in a more powerful voice than ever, exclaimed, "Woe, woe to this city, this temple, and this people !" And then, with a presentment of his own death, added," Woe, woe to myself "' he had scarcely uttered these words when a stone from one of the Roman engines killed him on the spot.

Such are the prodigies related by Josephus, and which, excepting the first, he places in the Year immediately preceding the Jewish war. Several of them are recorded also by Tacitus.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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While not having studied Josephus or even have read all of his works for that matter, I do consider most of what I have read sound and very good material.

Regards,
Zak
Shalom Fritz!!!

Actually, I am trying to get the Jews interested in the Olivet Discourse and Revalation as there is so much similarity with what Josephus witnessed and what are in those 2 "discourses".

John 11:48 "If ever we may be letting Him thus, all shall be believing into Him, and shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away of us and the Place and the Nation.

Reve 2:5 Be remembering then!, whence thou hast fallen and reform! And the first works do! If yet no, I am coming to thee swiftly, and shall be removing the Lamp-stand/lucnian <3087>of Thee out of the Place of her, if ever no thou should be reforming.

Menorah12.gif
 
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wannabeadesigirl

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History in itself isn't always a reliable historian. Remember, the victors usually write the history.

However, if Josephus, being Jewish wrote of the downfall of Jerusalem (which is historically proven by Roman texts...that is the winners side) chances are he was pretty accurate in his account. It's one of the few instances in historical references where you get to hear both sides of the story
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Necromance............LOL
History in itself isn't always a reliable historian. Remember, the victors usually write the history.

However, if Josephus, being Jewish wrote of the downfall of Jerusalem (which is historically proven by Roman texts...that is the winners side) chances are he was pretty accurate in his account. It's one of the few instances in historical references where you get to hear both sides of the story
Would any here say he is talking about the Olivet Discourse/Revelation?

[Btw, I and a lot of other Christians view Matt 24 as fulfilled.] Thanks.

Luke 21:22 "That days of vengeance these are, of the to be filled all-things, the having been written.
23 "Woe yet to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath on the people, these

I think this site is now unavailable.......

http://www.davieapostolicchurch.com/studies/destuct/

................The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers,...........

.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins
 
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Sphinx777

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History is the study of the past, with special attention to the written record of the activities of human beings over time. Scholars who write about history are called historians. It is a field of research which uses a narrative to examine and analyse the sequence of events, and it often attempts to investigate objectively the patterns of cause and effect that determine events. Historians debate the nature of history and the lessons history teaches. A famous quote by George Santayana has it that "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." The stories common to a particular culture, but not supported by external sources (such as the legends surrounding King Arthur) are usually classified as cultural heritage rather than the "disinterested investigation" needed by the discipline of history.


:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
 
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Sphinx777

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A historian is an individual who studies and writes about history, and is regarded as an authority on it. Historians are concerned with the continuous, methodical narrative and research of past events as relating to the human race; as well as the study of all events in time. If the individual is concerned with events preceding written history, the individual is a historian of prehistory. Although "historian" can be used to describe amateur and professional historians alike, it is reserved more recently for those who have acquired graduate degrees in the discipline. Some historians, though, are recognized by equivalent training and experience in the field. "Historian" became a professional occupation in the late nineteenth century at roughly the same time that physicians also set standards for who could enter the field.


:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
 
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SummaScriptura

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From what I've seen over the years, Josephus is considered an excellent historian when one is able to quote him in support of one's position on a questionable point of history. Otherwise, Josephus is viewed as unreliable when Josephus' writings seem to disproove one's dear theory. ;) I hope I was able to clear that one up fer ye!
 
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ebia

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Is Josephus considered a reliable historian
Depends what one means by that. Like any other historian, Josephus has his own agenda and the way he tells his stories is done to further that agenda. One can't take any historian's text at face value and treat it as an objective unbiased chronology of events. But if you take all that into account his documents are very useful.


and could YHWH have used him to record the Last Days events upon the OC Jewish Nation and Temple as described in the Olivet Discourse?
In a sense, yes.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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quote from another thread:
Originally Posted by SummaScriptura It should be noted that the idea the Sadduccees accepted only the five books of Moses is not supported by much early testimony to that fact. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the ONLY testimony to this is to be found in Josephus and Josephus cannot be accepted as a inerrant source.
 
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Lulav

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LLOJ, what book of Joshepus are you wondering about, he wrote more than one. I have the complete works. He was writing for the Romans and had to key it towards that audience.

I find his writings on the history of the Jews from a biblical standpoint more in line with fables and myths than anything else.

I remember reading somewhere (I think in one of his books) that he was raised up with the Essenes so you can glean a little about them from him on that subject.
 
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Lulav

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He's like other historians, some is accurate and some is distorted. To ascertain a little, you'd have to ask his motive on certain information.

40 years to repent from 30-70 and then destroyed on what, Passover?
No, not even close, it was on the 9th of Av, the same date that the temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzer. It is a sad day and one of fasting for Jews. It falls out on our Roman calender in August.

It is also remembered during the inquisition times too. In Spain all Jews had to leave or be killed by the ninth of AV. This was in 1492, the day before Columbus sailed for America.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LLOJ, what book of Joshepus are you wondering about, he wrote more than one. I have the complete works. He was writing for the Romans and had to key it towards that audience.

I find his writings on the history of the Jews from a biblical standpoint more in line with fables and myths than anything else.

I remember reading somewhere (I think in one of his books) that he was raised up with the Essenes so you can glean a little about them from him on that subject.
From what I know, he is also the only one to write about the divine destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army...that is what interest me the most in reference to the Olivet Discourse and Revelation

Are there any other historians/EFCs that write about that event? Thanks.... :wave:

Luke 21:23 "Woe to the ones in belly having and the ones suckling in those the Days!
For shall be great distress upon the Land and Wrath upon the people, this.
[Daniel 12]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

.........The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover...........

.........Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for want of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ;......................

Reve 18:8 by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine
and in fire She shall be being burned, that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Secundulus

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History in itself isn't always a reliable historian. Remember, the victors usually write the history.

However, if Josephus, being Jewish wrote of the downfall of Jerusalem (which is historically proven by Roman texts...that is the winners side) chances are he was pretty accurate in his account. It's one of the few instances in historical references where you get to hear both sides of the story
He was Jewish but by that time he had gone over to the Roman side in order to save his life. He was working for Titus. However, his histories are reliable.
 
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Standing Up

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No, not even close, it was on the 9th of Av, the same date that the temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzer. It is a sad day and one of fasting for Jews. It falls out on our Roman calender in August.

It is also remembered during the inquisition times too. In Spain all Jews had to leave or be killed by the ninth of AV. This was in 1492, the day before Columbus sailed for America.

So, the Romans surrounded Jerusalem on Passover and destroyed it in August?
 
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pilgrimage

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He was Jewish but by that time he had gone over to the Roman side in order to save his life. He was working for Titus. However, his histories are reliable.
What do histories actually teach abt daily life other than they repeat themselves?
 
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