Catholics-Muslims spiritually united?

[simonthezealot]

Recent statements regarding Islam are diplomatic efforts and part of ecumenism, nothing more.

Starting with the last first...
What Fellowship Can Light Have With Darkness?


2 Corinthians 6:14

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? [NIV: Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?]
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.



Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by visionary A personal relationship with the real God usually clears up a lot of the confusion..

Very true.

2 Corin 6:18 And I shall be to ye as a father and ye shall be to Me as sons and daughters is saying Lord Almighty/panto-kratwr <3841>.

Reve 19:6 And I hear as sound of a vast throng and as sound of waters many and as sound of thunders strong saying "allelouia that reigns Lord the God the Almighty"/panto-kratwr <3841>.

 

[simonthezealot]

Turning a series of "holy" wars where innocent people in the Middle East were raped, tortured, and killed into evidence of Catholic-Islam "spiritual unification." That's impressive. Wrong, of course, but still impressive. How far do you have to reach simon? How far will you go? You find parallels anywhere so long as it seems like they may be possibly vaguely related to something that can be used against Catholicism.

And typical instead of offering any defense of your churches stance toward islam you paint me as the aggressor pretending to take the high road all the while getting your digs at me personally, don't really care cuz i gots thick skin... but it seems to show none of you really have a defense for the position your church has taken regarding viewing the satanic allah as one in the same god as God Almighty. This should cause great concern to members of your church.
I'm not the one who claimed there was spiritual unity, that was your pope.
All that i am doing is showing some areas he must have been speaking of, if not feel free to define what was the spiritual unity...I threw out my definition of what i thought was spiritual unity already and even gave some examples.

 

[MrPolo]

Islam has as its system the belief in a creator. As they do not believe in Jesus as God and reject that He even died on the Cross and thereby reject the work of the cross, their belief in a Creator was futile and part and parcel of Satans deception upon them.

I disagree that belief in a Creator is "futile". You are insisting that one must either agree or disagree with Islam as a single package deal and ignore philosophies they have that you could agree with. I don't think you should forbid others to point out areas that those individuals can build upon. If a Muslim were to convert to Christianity he WOULD NOT have to jettison his already held belief that a Creator exists.

 

[MrPolo]

LIST]
[*]Crusaders were offered indulgences or an escape from purgatory for fighting to reestablish Holy Jerusalem from the Muslims.
[/LIST]

• Muslims promised their paradise for those who die in religious based battles, jihad

Oh my gosh, you're using the pagan-influence fallacy....and are one step away from atheism now....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I disagree that belief in a Creator is "futile". You are insisting that one must either agree or disagree with Islam as a single package deal and ignore philosophies they have that you could agree with. I don't think you should forbid others to point out areas that those individuals can build upon. If a Muslim were to convert to Christianity he WOULD NOT have to jettison his already held belief that a Creator exists.

Wouldn't that also be the case for a converted Jew

2 Corin 6:18 And I shall be to ye as a Father and ye shall be to Me as sons and daughters is saying Lord Almighty/panto-kratwr <3841>.

 

[Yab Yum]

6 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
7 you shall have no other gods before me.

Islams allah is a satanic substitute for the one true God who made man in HIS image.

Matt 7:12 So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Matt 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3Why do you see the speck that is in your brother&#8217;s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother&#8217;s eye.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Oh i guess this would be a spiritual bond...Divine promises unfounded in scripture.

• Crusaders were offered indulgences or an escape from purgatory for fighting to reestablish Holy Jerusalem from the Muslims.

• Muslims promised their paradise for those who die in religious based battles, jihad

http://www.christianforums.com/t7298850/#post49047604
Muslim Brotherhood Website: Jihad Against Non-Muslims Is Obligatory

*snip*

On a website devoted to Ramadhan, the Muslim Brotherhood posted a series of articles by Dr. Ahmad 'Abd Al-Khaleq about Al-Walaa Wa'l-Baraa, an Islamic doctrine which, in its fundamentalist interpretation, stipulates absolute allegiance to the community of Muslims and total rejection of non-Muslims and of Muslims who have strayed from the path of Islam.
In his articles, the writer argues that according to this principle, a Muslim can come closer to Allah by hating all non-Muslims - Christians, Jews, atheists, or polytheists - and by waging jihad against them in every possible manner.

 

[Dark_Lite]

And typical instead of offering any defense of your churches stance toward islam you paint me as the aggressor pretending to take the high road all the while getting your digs at me personally, don't really care cuz i gots thick skin... but it seems to show none of you really have a defense for the position your church has taken regarding viewing the satanic allah as one in the same god as God Almighty. This should cause great concern to members of your church.

There isn't much to defend against, but read the rest of my post.

There is no "spiritual unity" between Catholics and Muslims in this example you cite (and there isn't any in any of your other examples either, but I'm not addressing those right now). The motivations of indulgences and jihad are completely different. They are born out of two separate religions from two separate cultures. Not to mention, the two religions are completely opposed to each other in your two little bullet points. How can there be any kind of spiritual unity when the two are fighting against each other? There cannot.

The history between Christianity and Islam is bloody and full of hatred. Christianity, and Catholicism in particular, is still very much opposed to saying that Islam has any truth in it beyond worshiping the Abrahamic God. History doesn't fade away that quickly simon, but I'm sure you know that. Recent statements regarding Islam are diplomatic efforts and part of ecumenism, nothing more.

 

[simonthezealot]

Matt 7:12 So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Matt 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3Why do you see the speck that is in your brother&#8217;s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother&#8217;s eye.

True love can only be spoken with truth. To lie and say we believe in one and the same creator, shows hatred in my view.
Judge not has NOTHING to do with using proper discernment...Bugs me when people quote this out of context.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

True love can only be spoken with truth. To lie and say we believe in one and the same creator, shows hatred in my view.
Judge not has NOTHING to do with using proper discernment...Bugs me when people quote this out of context.

Ya think that is 1 reason our Lord spoke this to the audience in Matt 5?

Matthew 5:43 "Ye hear that it was declared 'thou shalt be loving thy neighbour and shall be hating thy enemy'
44 I am saying yet unto ye, be loving! the enemies of ye, be blessing them that are cursing thee, be doing good to them that are hating thee and be praying over those chasing/persecuting ye".
[Proverbs 25:22/Luke 6:35/Romans 12:20]

 

[simonthezealot]

There isn't much to defend against, but read the rest of my post.

I wasn't speaking of the actions themselves rather the ability of both to believe and promote that they can make decisions or grant things of a divine influence.

 

[Dark_Lite]

I wasn't speaking of the actions themselves rather the ability of both to believe and promote that they can make decisions or grant things of a divine influence.

Every religion does that, no matter how you slice it. Also, in order for there to be some kind of unity, there must be a demonstrable connection. Two random parallels born of completely disparate sources does not count.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hmmm.....I guess I will let STZ have the floor here....
LLOJ decides to just lurk until someone responds to my posts....

 

[Yab Yum]

True love can only be spoken with truth. To lie and say we believe in one and the same creator, shows hatred in my view.
Judge not has NOTHING to do with using proper discernment...Bugs me when people quote this out of context.

Calling the whole religion of an entire civilization "Satanic" is a charge of jaw-dropping seriousness. I hope you've thought about this very deeply.

 

[simonthezealot]

Ya think that is 1 reason our Lord spoke this to the audience in Matt 5?

Matthew 5:43 "Ye hear that it was declared 'thou shalt be loving thy neighbour and shall be hating thy enemy'
44 I am saying yet unto ye, be loving! the enemies of ye, be blessing them that are cursing thee, be doing good to them that are hating thee and be praying over those chasing/persecuting ye".
[Proverbs 25:22/Luke 6:35/Romans 12:20]

That is precisely why i believe He did.

 

[MrPolo]

Wouldn't that also be the case for a converted Jew

Yes.

 

[simonthezealot]

Calling the whole religion of an entire civilization "Satanic" is a charge of jaw-dropping seriousness. I hope you've thought about this very deeply.

Sure, i have no problem doing this.
It is what it is.
You guys would do well to learn to recognize the works of the adversary as well.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus Wouldn't that also be the case for a converted Jew

Yes.

I myself would much rather discuss Islam on the NCR board where the Muslims can also post in reply their views.
Not fair to them that we "talk behind their back" here on the GT board.
Just my humble opinion

http://www.christianforums.com/t7464467/#post54733345
Sons of Abraham

 

[visionary]

It would be interesting to hear how the Muslims think about the Catholic reunion under Mary with them..