Nun Automatically Excommunicated For Approving Abortion

[Michie]

[Breaking Update at the bottom of this post, more "mercy" killings by Sisters of Mercy]

Bishop Thomas Olmstead of the Diocese of Phoenix has confirmed that Sister Margaret McBride ofPhoenix’ Saint Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Centerhad incurred an automatic excommunication or latae sententiaeexcommunication. What this means is as soon as the offense is committed Sister McBride was automatically excommunicated by her own actions[1].

Sister Margaret McBride made the decision to kill a critically ill mother’s innocent unborn child because there was a high risk of the mother not surviving the innocent child’s birth. In essence Sister McBride allowed for anabortion.

The decision was made in an ethics committee meeting due to the urgency of the situation.

The hospital vice president, Suzanne Pfister, said the hospital follows the Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services.

“In this tragic case, the treatment necessary to save the mother’s life required the termination of an 11-week pregnancy,” Pfister said.

Pfister issued the four-paragraph statement on behalf of the hospital, its parent company Catholic Healthcare West, and the Sisters of Mercy, McBride’s religious order.
​

I looked up the Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services, fourth edition, and it specifically states under Part Four: Issues in Caring for the Beginning of Life, Section 45 that:

Abortion (that is, the directly intended termination of pregnancy before viability or the directly intended destruction of a viable fetus) is never permitted. Every procedure whose sole immediate effect is the termination of pregnancy before viability is an abortion, which, in its moral context, includes the interval between conception and implantation of the embryo. Catholic health care institutions are not to provide abortion services, even based upon the principle of material cooperation. In this context, Catholic health care institutions need to be concerned about the danger of scandal in any association with abortion providers.
​

Suzanne Pfister may have been referring to and misinterpreting Section 47 which states:

Continued- http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/05/15/nun-automatically-excommunicated-for-approving-abortion/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AmericanCatholic+%28American+Catholic%29

 

[BAFRIEND]

spread some butter on her- she is toast

 

[SemperFidelis]

I hope and pray that she will be able to see the sinfulness of her ways, repent and be reconciled with the Church before it is too late.

I am glad (if that word can be used in a situation like this) that the Bishop has shown himself to be strong in this situation rather then turning something of a blind eye as so often seems to happen.

Blessings,

Steve

 

[Davidnic]

And before people start saying that what she did was ok...remember, there are many medical procedures that could be done in these situations that are not abortions that can attempt to save both with little or no risk to the mother. Such a thing would not be an abortion.

As the article points out the problem here was that they treated the child as a disease and the child as killed directly and not as an unintended effect of a procedure to save the mother...here it was the intent of the procedure.

As the Bishop wrote:

“An unborn child is not a disease. While medical professionals should certainly try to save a pregnant mother’s life, the means by which they do it can never be by directly killing her unborn child. The end does not justify the means.”

So before anyone says the Church does not care about the mother...remember the object is to save both and not treat the child as a disease rather than a human being.

 

[Michie]

Oh... I'm sure this will be ignored by the usual suspects.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Oh... I'm sure this will be ignored by the usual suspects.

dont count your chickens before they hatch

 

[dinonum]

Suzanne Pfister may have been referring to and misinterpreting Section 47 which states:

Operations, treatments, and medications that have as their direct purpose the cure of a proportionately serious pathological condition of a pregnant woman are permitted when they cannot be safely postponed until the unborn child is viable, even if they will result in the death of the unborn child.
​

I believe this means that any attempts at saving the mother that may (secondarily) abort the innocent unborn child before viability is allowed, but Suzanne Pfister is wrong in this application because the hospital purposely procured an abortion because the innocent unborn child was a threat to the mother, ie, the innocent unborn child was treated as a disease.

This really makes no sense to me. Either the woman was going to die by continuing her pregnancy or she would not, according to the hospital there were no other options. Continuing the pregnancy would result in the death of both, and so ending the pregnancy would result in one life being saved. I believe in a lot of things within Catholicism, but this is definitely not one of them. I have no doubt that McBride felt conflicted and considered all the options, what Catholic wouldn't?

 

[BAFRIEND]

Congregation for the Doctorine of Faith: Declaration on Abortion
National Congress of Catholic Bishops: “No Catholic can responsibly take ‘a pro-choice’ stand when the ‘choice’ in question involves the taking of innocent human life”.

see post number 4:

As the article points out the problem here was that they treated the child as a disease and the child as killed directly and not as an unintended effect of a procedure to save the mother...here it was the intent of the procedure.

 

[dinonum]

The intended purpose was to save the mother, the only one who even had a chance of survival. The Catholic church would rather turn a woman away for to die than to save her life at the expense of an unborn child who will never have an opportunity to live, abortion or not. I hope that McBride can find some solace in the fact that she saved as many lives as she could so selflessly, especially knowing that she would probably be excommunicated by people who can't see past such a flawed perception of the choice that was made.

I don't mean this to insult Catholicism, but things change and doctrine has even been known to change. I'm deeply saddened by the way that this woman is being treated, and I wish people understood that this was not an elective abortion in the same sense that a woman goes to Planned Parenthood to receive.

 

[BAFRIEND]

“The penalty of excommunication for abortion extends to the mother, all medical personnel, anyone who offers the mother moral or financial support to abort, as well as those who publicly campaign for legalized abortion. Incidentally, no formal notification of such excommunication is necessary, as it takes effect as soon as the action is performed.” p. 77 The Catholic Answer Book vol 1, Rev. Peter M.J. Stravinskas PH.D S.T.D.

mcbride was not excommunicated by 'people' she excommunicated herself- that coming from her bishop

 

[dinonum]

mcbride was not excommunicated by 'people' she excommunicated herself- that coming from her bishop

According to everything it was an automatic thing, not like she said, "Oh btw, since I did this I guess I should be excommunicated."

 

[BAFRIEND]

According to everything it was an automatic thing, not like she said, "Oh btw, since I did this I guess I should be excommunicated."

i dont know if you bothered reading the entire post or not

anyway, i dont want to go to far here and get you in trouble because you are not allowed to debate catholic teachings or theology in our forum

 

[dinonum]

I understand a lot of Catholic doctrine and for the most part I agree, but the circumstances surrounding this incident don't necessarily fit the doctrine IMO. I'm not debating against them at all.

I read the entire post, and even followed up by reading a few different versions of the incident from other websites and papers.

 

[Insubres]

Isn't it a breach of the rules to have a sock?

 

[CreedIsChrist]

The intended purpose was to save the mother, the only one who even had a chance of survival. The Catholic church would rather turn a woman away for to die than to save her life at the expense of an unborn child who will never have an opportunity to live, abortion or not. I hope that McBride can find some solace in the fact that she saved as many lives as she could so selflessly, especially knowing that she would probably be excommunicated by people who can't see past such a flawed perception of the choice that was made.

I don't mean this to insult Catholicism, but things change and doctrine has even been known to change. I'm deeply saddened by the way that this woman is being treated, and I wish people understood that this was not an elective abortion in the same sense that a woman goes to Planned Parenthood to receive.

It seems like you might not have decent medical knowledge. A premature extraction can be made for a mother who is sick with child. There are many children born early who survive in post-care.

If the child needs to be taken out, it should be taken out in a manner that respects its life and put into an incubator where it can continue to be fed nutrients..

And no, you do have to be Catholic to be excommunicated, just as someone has to have been Catholic to be deemed a "heretic."

Incorrect. Heresy is when someone perverts the dogmas of the Catholic faith. Read about the gnostics, arians, marcionites. They were never Catholics but they were still deemed as heretics due to the perversion of the pillars of the Catholic faith.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

The intended purpose was to save the mother, the only one who even had a chance of survival. The Catholic church would rather turn a woman away for to die than to save her life at the expense of an unborn child who will never have an opportunity to live, abortion or not. I hope that McBride can find some solace in the fact that she saved as many lives as she could so selflessly, especially knowing that she would probably be excommunicated by people who can't see past such a flawed perception of the choice that was made.

I don't mean this to insult Catholicism, but things change and doctrine has even been known to change. I'm deeply saddened by the way that this woman is being treated, and I wish people understood that this was not an elective abortion in the same sense that a woman goes to Planned Parenthood to receive.

Catholic doctrine does not change. You make it sound like she was the victim of the actions of other people. She was not ex-communicated by anyone, she ex-communicated herself by participating in an abortion.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

So wait, was that you?

If so do you support her being excommunicated? Do you think that it's too easy to be excommunicated?

She ex-communicated herself, no one placed that status on her. The second she made the decision, she was outside of the Church. If a person commits adultery, then they are an adulterer by their action.

What the bishop did was declare that the ex-communicate took place, he didn't put it on her. The hope in these cases is that the person will repent of what they have done so they don't remain in that state.

 

[LightHorseman]

So, anyone come up with an example of a procedure that would have saved both mother and child yet?

 

[LightHorseman]

She ex-communicated herself, no one placed that status on her. The second she made the decision, she was outside of the Church. If a person commits adultery, then they are an adulterer by their action.

What the bishop did was declare that the ex-communicate took place, he didn't put it on her. The hope in these cases is that the person will repent of what they have done so they don't remain in that state.

I do think its worth noting, however, that commiting adultery doesn't warrant spontaneous excomunication. I don't think even murder does, does it? (and for the record, I mean actual murder, as it is defined in the dictionary, not "murder" that people like to pretend abortion is)

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

It seems like you might not have decent medical knowledge. A premature extraction can be made for a mother who is sick with child. There are many children born early who survive in post-care.

If the child needs to be taken out, it should be taken out in a manner that respects its life and put into an incubator where it can continue to be fed nutrients..


Incorrect. Heresy is when someone perverts the dogmas of the Catholic faith. Read about the gnostics, arians, marcionites. They were never Catholics but they were still deemed as heretics due to the perversion of the pillars of the Catholic faith.

You would need to be Catholic to be ex-communicated because that means you have broken communion with the Church, hence the 'ex'. The precise defintion might be tricky, but at the very least it would be any baptized person. A heresy is something which is based on truth but was corrupted to a point it contradicts the faith.

The groups you listed were Catholics or had Catholics at one time. The Arians were definately Catholic, they even had bishops, but broke communion by insisting upon their false beliefs. Marcion was a Catholic that was ex-communicated. The Gnostics are too broad of a category, some where Catholics, some were pagans, jews, etc