is enjoying war bad?

[BernieEOD]

I'll tell you how I feel about it in about 13 months. As of right now though I honestly can't wait to get over there.

As for the 11bravos being "knuckle dragging idiots", you could not be further from the truth. Maybe I am biased because I am an 11B, but some of the most genuine men I've known are 11B and I would not trade my friendship with them for anything. I think you're just upset that you didn't fit in because you're a lazy ass POG. Don't get it twisted, you doing convoy security for a few months and kicking down some doors with 11bravos does not make you a grunt.

Depends on what you will experience.
Back when I was 18 and eager, I was on a Submarine in Italy when the Gulf of Sidra incident occurred. We were ordered to get underway and await farther orders. I was eager to go to war. Back then, we still had a lot of Nam Vets in the military. One former Marine who did two tours, had two radio packs shot off his back, and zipped his best friend into a body bag slammed me against a bulkhead, began to choke me, and warned "If you everpray for war in front of me again, I'll kill you! Trust me! You don't want a war! Pray that cooler heads pravail among our leaders!"

26 years later, I went from submarines to EOD diver in the reserves. We were called up after 9-11 and tasked with harbor security. The first time we had to dive under a real ship looking for a real bomb, I learned how that former marine felt.

You will come back either:

1) Not getting any trigger time and being disappointed
2) Ending up slamming unarmed men, woman, & children to the floor and boasting of your combat exploits.
3) Come back wounded or know some who were by an IED and no enemy to shoot back at.
4) Getting in a real firefight you might actually lose, and learning what many combat vets learned before you.

 

[keith99]

Depends on what you will experience.
Back when I was 18 and eager, I was on a Submarine in Italy when the Gulf of Sidra incident occurred. We were ordered to get underway and await farther orders. I was eager to go to war. Back then, we still had a lot of Nam Vets in the military. One former Marine who did two tours, had two radio packs shot off his back, and zipped his best friend into a body bag slammed me against a bulkhead, began to choke me, and warned "If you everpray for war in front of me again, I'll kill you! Trust me! You don't want a war! Pray that cooler heads pravail among our leaders!"

26 years later, I went from submarines to EOD diver in the reserves. We were called up after 9-11 and tasked with harbor security. The first time we had to dive under a real ship looking for a real bomb, I learned how that former marine felt.

You will come back either:

1) Not getting any trigger time and being disappointed
2) Ending up slamming unarmed men, woman, & children to the floor and boasting of your combat exploits.
3) Come back wounded or know some who were by an IED and no enemy to shoot back at.
4) Getting in a real firefight you might actually lose, and learning what many combat vets learned before you.

I know a Vietnam era vet. The following is a reconstruction, he does not willingly talk about it and I would not push. As best I can figure out he was the Lt. His patrol encountered something nasty. This action won him the Silver Star. He refused it, mainly becasue in his opinion his Sgt. was more deserving and did not receive teh same award. Oh and the nastiest part, he has never forgiven himself because not all his men came back from that patrol.

I've found out about two others where were Silver and Bronze star winners from WW II. The bronze star winner was my brothe's wife's father and she was unaware of the award until his death. I am finding more and more that those who win the glory many young fools wish for do it at a price so huge they just want to forget, and can not.

 

[BernieEOD]

Bernie,
I take great offence to your train of thought. I joined the navy with a Naval Special Warfare contract specifically to get into the fight. I know plenty of eod guys that would be just fine riding out the war in a MRAP running the remote control robot out to the IED while some other tuff dudes provided them with protection. Just because eod finally got a movie (hurt locker) doesn’t give you the right to be on a high horse, you know as well as I do that most of it was Hollywood anyway. Next time one of you guys gets assigned to SUPPORT (because yall are support not direct action) us I won’t hold it against him unless it is you.
-Mike

Specwar is an exeption, as are Seabees, and other parts of the "Cammo clad Navy". What percentage of the Navy is spec war?

 

[BernieEOD]

26 years later, I went from submarines to EOD diver in the reserves. We were called up after 9-11 and tasked with harbor security. The first time we had to dive under a real ship looking for a real bomb, I learned how that former marine felt.

WOW, swimming looking for a real bomb? That is some crazy stuff! A reservist?! Harbor security, yikes scares me just thinking about it. I bet that former Marine would zip you in that body bag just for comparing your storie and his. Actually I am guessing the whole don't pray for war story is made up. Sounded good though.
-Mike

Yeah right. All cambat vets come back talking like Rambo right?
Your comic books are the most accurate depiction of the military?

 

[BernieEOD]

Bernie,
I take great offence to your train of thought. I joined the navy with a Naval Special Warfare contract specifically to get into the fight. I know plenty of eod guys that would be just fine riding out the war in a MRAP running the remote control robot out to the IED while some other tuff dudes provided them with protection. Just because eod finally got a movie (hurt locker) doesn’t give you the right to be on a high horse, you know as well as I do that most of it was Hollywood anyway. Next time one of you guys gets assigned to SUPPORT (because yall are support not direct action) us I won’t hold it against him unless it is you.
-Mike

Actually, EOD has to qualify not only with weapons but small unit tactics as well. We even have a billet for a SEAL just to teach these things.
You apparently have yet to go through BUDS. Come back IF you make it.

 

[BernieEOD]

Bernie,
I take great offence to your train of thought. I joined the navy with a Naval Special Warfare contract specifically to get into the fight. I know plenty of eod guys that would be just fine riding out the war in a MRAP running the remote control robot out to the IED while some other tuff dudes provided them with protection. Just because eod finally got a movie (hurt locker) doesn’t give you the right to be on a high horse, you know as well as I do that most of it was Hollywood anyway. Next time one of you guys gets assigned to SUPPORT (because yall are support not direct action) us I won’t hold it against him unless it is you.
-Mike

If you really want to get into the fight, you should be joining the Army or Marines. That is where the action is at this time.
You wash out of BUDS, you will sit out the war on a ship holding a swab instead of a rifle.

 

[BernieEOD]

26 years later, I went from submarines to EOD diver in the reserves. We were called up after 9-11 and tasked with harbor security. The first time we had to dive under a real ship looking for a real bomb, I learned how that former marine felt.

WOW, swimming looking for a real bomb? That is some crazy stuff! A reservist?! Harbor security, yikes scares me just thinking about it. I bet that former Marine would zip you in that body bag just for comparing your storie and his. Actually I am guessing the whole don't pray for war story is made up. Sounded good though.
-Mike

Actually, that former Marine also said that tough talkers like you are usually the first to cower in a real fight.
I can tell you that in our unit, the toughest talkers like you are ususally the ones who "Can't clear" when it comes time to make a real dive.

 

[keith99]

Actually, that former Marine also said that tough talkers like you are usually the first to cower in a real fight.
I can tell you that in our unit, the toughest talkers like you are ususally the ones who "Can't clear" when it comes time to make a real dive.

What does "Can't clear" refer to? My only guess is Can't clear the decks, e.g. frozen in fear above deck on a soon to be submerging sub.

Just curious. I figure I wopuld be better than everage for sub duty. No fear of enclosed spaces and I know I can do a free asscent from 100' and when I was of the age for military duty am confident that 200 would not have been unreasonable. (of course if things go wrong on a sub odds are you never get out and the sub is your coffin).

 

[BernieEOD]

This is about Diver, not submarines. When a diver refers to "Clear" It is about ones ability to equalize his ears. If you have a sever cold, some people cannot equalize thier ears as the descend which, if you could stand the pain would end up rupturing your eardrums. Never had that problem myself. What I did experience was "Reverse sinus squeeze" Revers as in not having any problems going down but when you come back up, my sinus would trap air under pressure and inflate to double thier size. The first time I happened, it pinched nerves in my head and caused extreme pain and paralysis on the right side of my face. Going back down and comming up slower solved it that time. During one dive, I experience this reverse squeeze again. After a stint of pain, I felt a "Pop" and my mask filled with blood. Afte that, I never had this reverse squeeze problem again.

 

[Waren7]

Well OP I'll give you my opinion. I'm an Infantryman and have been at war, in combat. I know what it's like getting gernades thown at you by 10 year olds. What it's like for someone to get cut in Half by an EFP, or behead by one.

Certain people do get addicted to war and like all addictions they are bad. When you get in your first firefight you will get in a state of mind that you wish you felt all the time. Time slows down, and you move super fast. You dont think about what you do at the time but when it's all over and you are home your wounds start to scare. And we all know Scares are forever.

War is a terrible thing, some people can handle it others can't. It also depends on what you did and where you were at that effects you. For 6 months I was along the IRAn border eating MRE's every day, getting attacked atleast once a week ect. But it was my Euphoria in a sense. Everything wass perfect there was no stress, all you did was your mission and then come back and eat/sleep if you actually felt like ever sleeping. Life honestly didn't really mean anyhting to us because we were in auto-mode we really didn't our family for long periods of time all we had were each othere, all 90 of us that happened to be in that town wondering when it was going o fall on-top of us like the british before us.

Then you come home, and you try to get back into normal mindset but can't. So you just wait till you deploy again and find an addiction to make the time go faster for the next deployment.

War is Hell.

 

[Fenrir003]

Get in uniform and got over there ans see if you come back thinking the same way.
And No, not the Navy where you can sit out the war offshore holding a mop instead of a rifle or the Air Force where you can wash planes. Not even the Army or Marines as a POG (Personnel other than Grunt) And sit out the war as a Fobbit. No, Go infantry and join the the ones who spend hours humping 90 pounds of gear. Shher boredom interrupted by moments of terror. Then come back and tell everyone how you enjoy war.

Combat veterans don't talk like this.

Hey there brother. Don't rag on the other services. We give our lives for this country JUST as you do. We run with the same pack here. We in the Airforce have eod just as you do. We have ground pounders just as you do. Don't think so? Tell that to my Father who spent 23+ years jumping out of Blackhawks and Bell UH-1's to cover the army's back.. Guess what.. He was Air Force security police. Tell that to the wife of the Air Force firefighter who was deployed in Bagdad in '03. He was rolling downthe main drag with a convoy when an IED went off, sending a hummer into the river. As soon the hummer hit water he dived in after it. He did'nt even strip his gear. He brought four of our brothers back up and he went for the last. He never came back up. They found his body down stream. Oh.. While you're at it, tell it to the Tech Sgt who was his best friend. I've been in fires with the guy and he does'nt break a sweat. While telling me that story, he broke into tears. He was at the back of the convoy when it happened. He did'nt make it in time to help his friend. Tell that to the guys in the Navy who got hit by some haji with a speed boat. Oh.. And last but not least. Tell that to the Army office jockey who went in with the last convoy into Mogadishu.. I'll admit. Its pretty fun to BS with my buddies from other branches and toss around the "why we''re better" jokes. I know a lot of "Fobbits" who gave all they had or watched others do it while they were incapable of doing so.. We all signed up to serve this country. And, while we don't all see combat, we still sacrifice in one way or another. How do you think that "POG" feels when he gets a call saying he missed his kids birth, or that a close family member died while he was away?? Why??? So he can have your chow ready or so he can keep your vehicles running.. We may not like each other all of the time, but when we go down range,aside from God, we only have each other. REGARDLES of the MOS, everyone plays a role. Even if it is only so that the grunt with the ego can come home and put his brothers down. I respect your experience
and time in service but I refuse to let someone thrash on the guys I sweat and bleed with, regardless of branch or MOS.
Just because another serviceman ,or woman, is'nt knocking down a door does'nt mean they don't have a roll to play.

 

[Wayte]

Get in uniform and got over there ans see if you come back thinking the same way.
And No, not the Navy where you can sit out the war offshore holding a mop instead of a rifle or the Air Force where you can wash planes. Not even the Army or Marines as a POG (Personnel other than Grunt) And sit out the war as a Fobbit. No, Go infantry and join the the ones who spend hours humping 90 pounds of gear. Shher boredom interrupted by moments of terror. Then come back and tell everyone how you enjoy war.

Combat veterans don't talk like this.

I can't tell if you're actually bashing the navy or not. If you are, I insist you kindly shut the hell up; when those infantry need support, guess who gives it? Who drops the bombs for cover fire? I've got an ex-army uncle who can attest that we are just as needed as the front fighters.


If you aren't bashing the navy, but merely stating that navy won't see combat, that's completely true.
Just don't think we don't have risk; I'm gonna be playing with a reactor that could take out most of a state if melted down >.>

 

[jcook922]

It's just typical inter-service rivalry taken too far. The Navy and Air Force have plenty of contributions. I can't speak for the Navy aside from SEALS, EOD, SeaBees, and Corpsmen.. But the Air Force has more than it's share that leave the wire:

Security Forces(Often attached to the Army or convoys)
Para-Rescue
Combat Controllers
EOD
Linguists
OSI
Vehicle Maintenance(Often attached to the Army or convoys)
Security Forces Augmentees
Combat Weather
Civil Engineering/Red Horse

And on top of that is our actual main mission of providing Air Support and satellite logistics to the other services. Do your research before you run your mouth Bernie. Your tag even says EOD, you should know it's a joint service career field more than anyone.

 

[Fenrir003]

It's just typical inter-service rivalry taken too far. The Navy and Air Force have plenty of contributions. I can't speak for the Navy aside from SEALS, EOD, SeaBees, and Corpsmen.. But the Air Force has more than it's share that leave the wire:

Security Forces(Often attached to the Army or convoys)
Para-Rescue
Combat Controllers
EOD
Linguists
OSI
Vehicle Maintenance(Often attached to the Army or convoys)
Security Forces Augmentees
Combat Weather
Civil Engineering/Red Horse

And on top of that is our actual main mission of providing Air Support and satellite logistics to the other services. Do your research before you run your mouth Bernie. Your tag even says EOD, you should know it's a joint service career field more than anyone.

Thanks for the backup there. :}

 

[MacFall]

Back to the OP: Yes, enjoying war is bad. If you are a believer that ought to be self-evident. If you aren't, it is still the attitude of a sociopath, and one which is destructive to human life and the value thereof.

One of my former-Marine friends told me that any time you have to kill someone it takes a little bit of your soul away. And he ought to know, he saw and did plenty of it. And he went in fully in favor of the cause. But he's not so much of a nationalist now after seeing what it's really like to work for the largest government-run killing machine in the world for eight years.

 

[BernieEOD]

Hey there brother. Don't rag on the other services. We give our lives for this country JUST as you do. We run with the same pack here. We in the Airforce have eod just as you do. We have ground pounders just as you do. Don't think so? Tell that to my Father who spent 23+ years jumping out of Blackhawks and Bell UH-1's to cover the army's back.. Guess what.. He was Air Force security police. Tell that to the wife of the Air Force firefighter who was deployed in Bagdad in '03. He was rolling downthe main drag with a convoy when an IED went off, sending a hummer into the river. As soon the hummer hit water he dived in after it. He did'nt even strip his gear. He brought four of our brothers back up and he went for the last. He never came back up. They found his body down stream. Oh.. While you're at it, tell it to the Tech Sgt who was his best friend. I've been in fires with the guy and he does'nt break a sweat. While telling me that story, he broke into tears. He was at the back of the convoy when it happened. He did'nt make it in time to help his friend. Tell that to the guys in the Navy who got hit by some haji with a speed boat. Oh.. And last but not least. Tell that to the Army office jockey who went in with the last convoy into Mogadishu.. I'll admit. Its pretty fun to BS with my buddies from other branches and toss around the "why we''re better" jokes. I know a lot of "Fobbits" who gave all they had or watched others do it while they were incapable of doing so.. We all signed up to serve this country. And, while we don't all see combat, we still sacrifice in one way or another. How do you think that "POG" feels when he gets a call saying he missed his kids birth, or that a close family member died while he was away?? Why??? So he can have your chow ready or so he can keep your vehicles running.. We may not like each other all of the time, but when we go down range,aside from God, we only have each other. REGARDLES of the MOS, everyone plays a role. Even if it is only so that the grunt with the ego can come home and put his brothers down. I respect your experience
and time in service but I refuse to let someone thrash on the guys I sweat and bleed with, regardless of branch or MOS.
Just because another serviceman ,or woman, is'nt knocking down a door does'nt mean they don't have a roll to play.

The Navy and Air Force are non combatant service forces where you turn a wrench or swing a mop. Too many people join these forces in order to claim they serves without the risk of getting shot at.

 

[BernieEOD]

If you cheer for war, you should volonteer to go where the action is. Not for a non combatant service position.

 

[Fenrir003]

If you cheer for war, you should volonteer to go where the action is. Not for a non combatant service position.

Rofl.. I don't cheer for war.. War is not something I tend to enjoy. Oh.. The the last time I checked, my unit was running RAMS teams with everyone else outside the wire. lol Why are you so adamant about this?? 0_0' None of the guys I know in the other branches completely understand your sentiment either. Sure, we screw with each other, but you seem jaded to anybody but a ground pounder. Just kinda confused here....

 

[ulu]

Yes, enjoying war is bad, just like gloating over someone's death is bad, or getting a thrill upon hearing someone was raped is bad.

Fortunately very few who take part in war enjoy it.

 

[mpok1519]

if you enjoy war, you're probably a bad person.