Uganda wants to pass bill to hang homosexuals.

[IreneAdler]

nothing is certain. like I said somewhere else... if the bible said: take 12 steps and do the hokey pokey to the left people would argue how long the steps would be, and what version of the hokey pokey. that's why God's about faith. Man can misconstrue and twist anything to fit his own bias.

 

[Belk]

nothing is certain. like I said somewhere else... if the bible said: take 12 steps and do the hokey pokey to the left people would argue how long the steps would be, and what version of the hokey pokey. that's why God's about faith. Man can misconstrue and twist anything to fit his own bias.

QFT. In fact, I would go so far to say not can but will. It's simply how our brain works.

 

[TheNihilodeterminist]

The words arent the issue, homosexuality previously was mostly called sodomy.
The Bible describes what it is, men with men instead of the natural with woman.

Fine. Who cares? If the Bible was written today, in the right countries, it would say that women who are raped should be stoned, or that Obama's health care reforms are God-sent. Why is this so hard to grasp?

 

[IreneAdler]

because people want to have ultimate faith in the writers of the bible without believing that they could possibly have been swayed by culture or time period

 

[brightmorningstar]

To IreneAdler,

because people want to have ultimate faith in the writers of the bible without believing that they could possibly have been swayed by culture or time period

I dont think so at all, one has to take what the Bible literally says to be able to see the context and the different responses to people of different cultures and different times. For example the prohibition on same sex relationships in Exodus follow the destruction of Sodom where among other sins, same sex practices occured, but in the NT the apostles didnt need to address the Jewish believers as they already knew, the prohibitions were given to the gentile Roman and Greek cultures where it did occur. - and of course delivered from the revelation Paul got, not from man but Jesus Christ, as someone who was a Jew, an expert in Jewish law, a Roman citizen, and who lived in a prominent Greek centre of learning.

 

[IreneAdler]

(literal in what language)

culture is INCREDIBLY important to understand what the bible IS saying. without it you have uneducated guesses and modern ideas breaking in. it's just illogical not to look at context of the writers and times.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To IreneAdler,
I agree with you., I think my example indicated that

 

[IreneAdler]

wasn't disagreeing, I just have a big opinion and a big mouth to go with it (must be the hair)

 

[Belk]

wasn't disagreeing, I just have a big opinion and a big mouth to go with it (must be the hair)

No, of course not, Red heads are all just as level headed as anyone else. <Looks around for place to hide from the red head wrath>

 

[IreneAdler]

maybe it's what caused the red hair (Irish/Scotts)

 

[brightmorningstar]

if the bible said: take 12 steps and do the hokey pokey to the left

what version and how big the steps is the interpretation, denying the Bible says take 12 steps and do the hokey pokey is the is analogy of the homosexual issue.

 

[IreneAdler]

what's taught is interpretation (because even clearly stated things have to be interpreted in some way... deciphered for meaning, even if it's supposidly clear)

 

[SithDoughnut]

what version and how big the steps is the interpretation, denying the Bible says take 12 steps and do the hokey pokey is the is analogy of the homosexual issue.

Depends on whether you view the hokey pokey as no longer relevant to the modern world or not. The Bible is full of cultural references.

 

[BigBadWlf]

Ok forget what the person that I quoted said ....

arsenokoites is the one who sleep with men... since the ending is "es" Ok?
He who sleeps with men has obviously sex with men in english that is what it means to "sleep" share a bed/ be in the same bed...do you agree to that? what would be your objection if you do ?

You posted an unaccredited cut and paste

As far as grammatical analysis…




"Arseno- means 'male' and can be either the subject or object of the action in question, gramatically as well as sexually. 'Koites' is a feminine noun meaning 'bed'; in the singular it can be used either literally as a generic 'bed' or figuratively, as in The marriage bed. In the latter case, it connotes sexual monogamy, among other things. In the plural, 'koitai', it is used to mean 'bedding around' [cf Rom13:13], a more appropriate term for promiscuity than 'inappropriate contenteia', which properly mean prostitution.

Combining the terms leads to saying that 'arsenokoitai' means literally, 'male fornicator' or really, 'promiscuous male' but this runs into some troubles. First, 'arsenokoitai' is a feminine plural noun! It could be this simply reflects that gender of the bed or it could mean the gender of the offending party. Either way your point disappears. If the former then we have a man going to a woman in HER bed…which is not homosexuality or in the latter the prohibition is against promiscuous females

"This is mistaken. The noun 'arsenokoites' is masculine, and its plural is 'arsenokoitai' (also masculine). It is wrong to say that the correct plural for masculine 'arsenokoites' is 'arsenokoitoi'. What probably confused you is that many feminine nouns (those ending in -a or -e) have a plural in -ai. On the other hand, many masculine nouns (those ending in -os) have a plural in -oi. But masculine 'agentive' nouns (sort of like English nouns ending in '-er' or '-or' like 'actor' or 'banker') have a nominative singular in -es, and a nominative plural in -ai. There are hundreds of such words. One common biblical word following the same pattern, for example, is 'mathetes' ('disciple'). The plural is 'mathetai', which looks feminine to people who have only a passing knowledge of Greek, but is really masculine. Or, from Classical Athens, there's 'dikastes', 'judge' the plural of which was 'dikastai', 'judges'."

Mixed plurals are always masculine; only when all members of a group are female can a feminine plural be used (if one exists).

 

[BigBadWlf]

I thought for sure it would be 60s hmmm.... Then again who knows even if that source is accurate... And King James version was calling it "man stealer" which made me laugh to no end.....

Why laugh?…that translation indicating those who engage in kidnapping to sell people into slavery (in modern terms white slavery) is far more accurate and coincides with fifty or so other text where the word arsenokoites appears

 

[Philothei]

Why laugh?…that translation indicating those who engage in kidnapping to sell people into slavery (in modern terms white slavery) is far more accurate and coincides with fifty or so other text where the word arsenokoites appears

because this is not what 'arsenokoites" means it is simple ....as much as you "make it work" the words do not lie

 

[Philothei]

You posted an unaccredited cut and paste

As far as grammatical analysis…




"Arseno- means 'male' and can be either the subject or object of the action in question, gramatically as well as sexually. 'Koites' is a feminine noun meaning 'bed'; in the singular it can be used either literally as a generic 'bed' or figuratively, as in The marriage bed. In the latter case, it connotes sexual monogamy, among other things. In the plural, 'koitai', it is used to mean 'bedding around' [cf Rom13:13], a more appropriate term for promiscuity than 'inappropriate contenteia', which properly mean prostitution.

Combining the terms leads to saying that 'arsenokoitai' means literally, 'male fornicator' or really, 'promiscuous male' but this runs into some troubles. First, 'arsenokoitai' is a feminine plural noun! It could be this simply reflects that gender of the bed or it could mean the gender of the offending party. Either way your point disappears. If the former then we have a man going to a woman in HER bed…which is not homosexuality or in the latter the prohibition is against promiscuous females

"This is mistaken. The noun 'arsenokoites' is masculine, and its plural is 'arsenokoitai' (also masculine). It is wrong to say that the correct plural for masculine 'arsenokoites' is 'arsenokoitoi'. What probably confused you is that many feminine nouns (those ending in -a or -e) have a plural in -ai. On the other hand, many masculine nouns (those ending in -os) have a plural in -oi. But masculine 'agentive' nouns (sort of like English nouns ending in '-er' or '-or' like 'actor' or 'banker') have a nominative singular in -es, and a nominative plural in -ai. There are hundreds of such words. One common biblical word following the same pattern, for example, is 'mathetes' ('disciple'). The plural is 'mathetai', which looks feminine to people who have only a passing knowledge of Greek, but is really masculine. Or, from Classical Athens, there's 'dikastes', 'judge' the plural of which was 'dikastai', 'judges'."

Mixed plurals are always masculine; only when all members of a group are female can a feminine plural be used (if one exists).

Koitai is not femine... show me the scholar that agrees with your position? but not a 'western theologian" a true linguist scholar...You will not find anybody to say this. It does not say arsenokoites...that is modern gReek


9&#951; &#959;&#965;&#954; &#959;&#953;&#948;&#945;&#964;&#949; &#959;&#964;&#953; &#945;&#948;&#953;&#954;&#959;&#953; &#952;&#949;&#959;&#965; &#946;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#955;&#949;&#953;&#945;&#957; &#959;&#965; &#954;&#955;&#951;&#961;&#959;&#957;&#959;&#956;&#951;&#963;&#959;&#965;&#963;&#953;&#957; &#956;&#951; &#960;&#955;&#945;&#957;&#945;&#963;&#952;&#949; &#959;&#965;&#964;&#949; &#960;&#959;&#961;&#957;&#959;&#953; &#959;&#965;&#964;&#949; &#949;&#953;&#948;&#969;&#955;&#959;&#955;&#945;&#964;&#961;&#945;&#953; &#959;&#965;&#964;&#949; &#956;&#959;&#953;&#967;&#959;&#953; &#959;&#965;&#964;&#949; &#956;&#945;&#955;&#945;&#954;&#959;&#953; &#959;&#965;&#964;&#949; &#945;&#961;&#963;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#954;&#959;&#953;&#964;&#945;&#953;

&#954;&#959;&#953;&#964;&#945;&#953; is not feminine it would be &#954;&#959;&#953;&#964;&#949;&#962; as in &#947;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#953;&#954;&#949;&#962; *women* and it is not...

 

[Philothei]

It is pointless to go circular on this again The grammar does not jive with what the pro-homosexual agenda is putting forth too many problems with the language I think as much as people try to "pull the card" with the linguistic "we know better than the greek scholars attitute" the more it falls flat on its face

 

[BigBadWlf]

To IreneAdler,
I dont think so at all, one has to take what the Bible literally says to be able to see the context and the different responses to people of different cultures and different times. For example the prohibition on same sex relationships in Exodus follow the destruction of Sodom where among other sins, same sex practices occured,

"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did hateful things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.”
Ezekiel 16: 49-50

 

[Shrader25]

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And why can't my computer type in greek? huh?