Did Augustine retraction concerning Peter and the Rock?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Did Augustine retract/change his view of Peter and the Rock?
Is this also the view of the EOs and a lot of other non-RCs concerning the confession of Jesus being the rock?
I am just a tad confused on this. Thanks

http://www.christianforums.com/t7344034/#post51145085http://www.christianforums.com/t7344034/#post51145353

Augustine explains that his view that Peter is the rock of Matthew 16 was later replaced by the view that Christ is the rock. Notice that he refers to his former view being *replaced*, not just adding a second interpretation to it. He says that the reader can decide for himself which interpretation is more likely. He expects the reader to choose between the two, not accept both. Thus, Augustine advocated the *rejection* of the view that Peter is the rock, and he said that others could do the same, here it is...

............... But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable." (The Retractions, 1:20:1)http://www.christianforums.com/t7353336-45/#post51145537

 

[bling]

Had not heard that thank you.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Confession=rock in the Presbyterian camp.

 

[Tangible]

Confession=rock in the Presbyterian camp.

Chez les Lutheriens aussi.

 

[Anglian]

St. Bede, in his Homilies on the Gospel writes:

'Peter, who before this was referred to as Simon, received from the Lord the name Peter, because of the strength of his faith and the constancy of his confession, for he clung with a stable and ternacious mind to him concerning whom it was written, and the Rock was Christ. To his faithful one who recognised him and loved him and confessed him, he granted a share in his own name, so that he was called Peter from the word for rock.'

Later in the same Homily [1:20] he adds:
'Thus to each Church of the elect is given the authority of binding or loosing according to the measure of guilt or repentance. But since blessed Peter confessed Christ with a true faith and followed him with true love, he received in a special way the keys of the kingdom of heaven and preeminence in the power of judging, so that all believers thoughout the world might understand that any who separate themselves in any way from the unity of this faith or of this fellowship cannot be absolved from the bond of this sin, nor can they enter the gate of the heavenly kingdom.'

Bede was a great exegete of St. Augustine and found no contradication in his writings. Not being as familiar with St. A as Bede was, I'll defer to him for the moment

peace,

Anglian

 

[JamesAH]

Confession=rock in the Presbyterian camp.

Alcatraz = rock in San Fransisco

 

[Yab Yum]

 

[DD2008]

Augustine's retractions are great. It is the right thing to do if you are wrong about something. Admit it publicly.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Augustine's retractions are great. It is the right thing to do if you are wrong about something. Admit it publicly.

That is certainly true.

 

[lionroar0]

It's not the retractions it's the retractations.

 

[lionroar0]

And I can't find it online to read. grrrr

 

[Secundulus]

And I can't find it online to read. grrrr

Yeah. A primary source reference would be nice here.

Primary source does not equal wikipedia or what some guy posted on his blog.

Since Augustine's writings are all online, this should be easy.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yeah. A primary source reference would be nice here.

Primary source does not equal wikipedia or what some guy posted on his blog.

Since Augustine's writings are all online, this should be easy.

Would this help?

The Retractations by Saint Augustine, Maryline Inez Bogan at Questia Online Library

Chapter 20 ONE BOOK AGAINST A LETTER OF THE HERETIC DONATUS (Contra epistulam Donati heretici liber unus) ​

(1) In this same period of my priesthood, I also wrote a
book 1 against a letter of Donatus who, after Majorinus, was
the second bishop of the party of Donatus at Carthage. In
this letter, he argues that the baptism of Christ is believed to
be only in his communion. It is against this letter that we
speak in this book.
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter:
"On him as on a rock the Church was built." This idea
is also expressed in song by the voice of many in the
verses of the most blessed Ambrose where he says about
the crowing of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]: "At its crowing he, this rock
of the Church, washed away his guilt." 2 But I know that
very frequently at a later time, 3 I so explained what the
Lord said: "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build
my Church," 4 that it be understood as built upon Him whom
Peter confessed saying: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the
living God," 5 and so Peter, called after this rock, represented
the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and
has received "the keys of the kingdom of heaven." 6 For, "Thou
art Peter" and not "Thou art the rock" was said to him.
But "the rock was Christ," 7 in confessing whom, as also the
whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the​

 

[Secundulus]

Would this help?

The Retractations by Saint Augustine, Maryline Inez Bogan at Questia Online Library

Chapter 20 ONE BOOK AGAINST A LETTER OF THE HERETIC DONATUS (Contra epistulam Donati heretici liber unus) ​

(1) In this same period of my priesthood, I also wrote a
book 1 against a letter of Donatus who, after Majorinus, was
the second bishop of the party of Donatus at Carthage. In
this letter, he argues that the baptism of Christ is believed to
be only in his communion. It is against this letter that we
speak in this book.
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter:
"On him as on a rock the Church was built." This idea
is also expressed in song by the voice of many in the
verses of the most blessed Ambrose where he says about
the crowing of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]: "At its crowing he, this rock
of the Church, washed away his guilt." 2 But I know that
very frequently at a later time, 3 I so explained what the
Lord said: "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build
my Church," 4 that it be understood as built upon Him whom
Peter confessed saying: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the
living God," 5 and so Peter, called after this rock, represented
the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and
has received "the keys of the kingdom of heaven." 6 For, "Thou
art Peter" and not "Thou art the rock" was said to him.
But "the rock was Christ," 7 in confessing whom, as also the

whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the​

You have to pay to read at that site.

However, what you posted does not contradict in any way any Catholic belief.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You have to pay to read at that site.

However, what you posted does not contradict in any way any Catholic belief.

Huh? I didn't pay to see it. I could read every chapter on there......
NM.....I see what ya mean now....you can only view a part of each chapter......my bad.

 

[Secundulus]

Augustine said this also.

Augustine, A Treatise Concerning the Correction of the Donatists, Chapter 11

Furthermore, the Catholic Church alone is the body of Christ, of which He is the Head and Saviour of His body. Outside this body the Holy Spirit giveth life to no one seeing that, as the apostle says himself, “The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us;” but he is not a partaker of the divine love who is the enemy of unity. Therefore they have not the Holy Ghost who are outside the Church; for it is written of them, “They separate themselves being sensual, having not the Spirit.”

Philip Schaff, The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Vol. IV (Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, 1997)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Augustine said this also.

*snip*

Furthermore, the Catholic Church alone is the body of Christ, of which He is the Head and Saviour of His body. Outside this body the Holy Spirit giveth life to no one seeing that, as the apostle says himself, ..............

Augustine, A Treatise Concerning the Correction of the Donatists, Chapter 11
Philip Schaff, The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Vol. IV (Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, 1997)

Sounds a lot like the language in Unam Sanctum.......

http://www.christianforums.com/t6905007-15/#post43831307
Did benny deny the unam sanctum?

 

[Secundulus]

Sounds a lot like the language in Unam Sanctum.......

Perhaps. But I recall a thread not long ago that claimed that Augustine was a Calvinist.

He must have been a schizophrenic Calvinist.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Perhaps. But I recall a thread not long ago that claimed that Augustine was a Calvinist.

He must have been a schizophrenic Calvinist.

Perhaps. What does that say about him then? Does that discredit him in any way?

 

[Secundulus]

Perhaps. What does that say about him then? Does that discredit him in any way?

Maybe it simply discredits the thread that claims he was a Calvinist.