Her Body, Her Choice: Woman on Trial for Terminating 6 Pregnancies

[BlessingUAngel]

I actually agree with that statement. My Lord gives me wisdom to go about my day and to make decisions. When people start claiming that their god told them to not seek medical help, then there is a problem here. My God would NEVER give me such a commandment. It's not biblical.

What that woman did was NOT of that circumstance. The baby had a chance to live! She trusted that, since the Lord provided her with the baby in the first place, that everything would work out. If that means she dies and the baby lives then so be it. How many mothers would be willing to sacrifice their life for their children? That 16 year old boy is a walking testimony of the grace of God.

Amen! If only more Christians had that kind of faith! The faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains! Amen!

To say that she was void of common sense when she made that VERY tough decision is disheartening and erroneous!

It most certainly is! But as I said before, we can't expect an unbeliever to understand such faith in the first place.

I don't claim a religion. I have a relationship with Christ. Just like I have a relationship with my brothers and sisters.

Wow! I have to give another hearty AMEN to that statement! Praise God for your boldness to speak the truth, brother! It is a very personal relationship with our Savior and Lord, Christ Jesus.

 

[lux et lex]

Going against medical advice is "amazing faith" or a quick trip to martyrdom.

 

[MoonLancer]

Life begins at conception. Human life is only potential until birth, once a fetus is born then it is a fully human-being but it is NOT fully human until birth (however that takes place.)

only 1 in 8 conceptions actually take. by that i mean attach itself to the uterus wall. 7 in 8 conceptions ends in the death. It seems to arbitrary to pick conceptions as the cut off point.

 

[BlessingUAngel]

Going against medical advice is "amazing faith" or a quick trip to martyrdom.

For the [true and devoted] Christian, faith in our infinite God trumps faith in His creation, finite man. I commend this sister in Christ for trusting God with her life and the life of her son instead of trusting doctors who only try to play god with people's lives.

 

[Mling]

Putting yourself in an extremely risky/quite likely fatal situation, with the trust that God will miraculously save you? Doesn't the Bible say not to test God?

I'd be interested to know, though, whether God passes such tests significantly more, or less, often than chance would predict. Either would be an interesting result (if people who test God always end up losing, for example, it could be evidence that God deliberately "fails," because he refuses to be tested.)

 

[kiwimac]

For the [true and devoted] Christian, faith in our infinite God trumps faith in His creation, finite man. I commend this sister in Christ for trusting God with her life and the life of her son instead of trusting doctors who only try to play god with people's lives.

God intends us to use the brains that God gave us. In a medical emergency GO TO A DOCTOR.

 

[lux et lex]

So if doctor's are trying to "play god", why bother going to one at all. I mean seriously. If you're going to say that is something true and devoted Christians do, then put your money where your mouth is.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I actually agree with that statement. My Lord gives me wisdom to go about my day and to make decisions. When people start claiming that their god told them to not seek medical help, then there is a problem here. My God would NEVER give me such a commandment. It's not biblical.

What that woman did was NOT of that circumstance. The baby had a chance to live! She trusted that, since the Lord provided her with the baby in the first place, that everything would work out. If that means she dies and the baby lives then so be it. How many mothers would be willing to sacrifice their life for their children? That 16 year old boy is a walking testimony of the grace of God.

To say that she was void of common sense when she made that VERY tough decision is disheartening and erroneous!

I don't claim a religion. I have a relationship with Christ. Just like I have a relationship with my brothers and sisters.

You seem to have mistaken the situation I was referencing. I'm referring to any woman who, facing an ectopic pregnancy, would trust in god to save her baby and herself. Ectopic fetuses are not viable, and left to grow, can easily kill the mother.

If a woman doesn't get an ectopic fetus aborted because of her religious beliefs, and has other children that depend on her, she ranks among the most irresponsible persons I can imagine.

 

[katautumn]

Okay, so I'll reiterate my questions, since this has turned into a discussion about not going to the doctor which has nothing to do with the OP, but I digress.

1. How is a fetus not a human? And I don't mean what a person's interpretation of what being a human entails, if it has a soul, if it has personhood. I mean what makes a fetus lacking in DNA to where it cannot be considered a human?

2. What is magically bestowed upon the fetus at the moment it passes from the vaginal opening that makes it a person/human/baby?

3. Is the unborn at twelve weeks into gestation technically a baby if the mother wants the unborn and considers it such? If so, what makes her fetus different from any other in terms of how we would classify it?

I ask these questions not as they relate to abortion, but in general.

 

[flicka]

Okay, so I'll reiterate my questions, since this has turned into a discussion about not going to the doctor which has nothing to do with the OP, but I digress.

1. How is a fetus not a human? And I don't mean what a person's interpretation of what being a human entails, if it has a soul, if it has personhood. I mean what makes a fetus lacking in DNA to where it cannot be considered a human? It is HUMAN. It's PERSONHOOD that is debatable. Even a skin cell is HUMAN.
2. What is magically bestowed upon the fetus at the moment it passes from the vaginal opening that makes it a person/human/baby? Nothing magic, it's just that there comes a point where the fetus can survive outside the womb. Some say it's at a certain point in gestation, others say when a breath is drawn.
3. Is the unborn at twelve weeks into gestation technically a baby if the mother wants the unborn and considers it such? If so, what makes her fetus different from any other in terms of how we would classify it? I don't think there is an actual difference. Some women consider it "a baby" as soon as they find out they are pregnant. And in the past some to cultures "a baby" wasn't considered "a person" until it had lived long enough.
I ask these questions not as they relate to abortion, but in general.

Good questions

 

[lux et lex]

Alright. So a baby was born and died an hour after birth. Miscarriage?

 

[Mling]

Alright. So a baby was born and died an hour after birth. Miscarriage?

I started counting and got to 4, so that's the same as 3, right?

Demonstrably no. I don't think any "magic" happens in the birth canal, but the fact remains that an arbitrary line needs to be drawn someplace. When the entity is on one side of the line, one set of terminology is used. When the entity is on the other, another set is used. A fetus miscarries or is stillborn; a fetus exists only on one side the vagina. If the entity is on the other side, then it can't "miscarry." Neither can it be "aborted", for that matter. Of course, "died," works in both cases.

(also, the mother is no longer "pregnant," with the baby, to return to the OP.)

 

[jellybean99]

If the mother reached towards her birth canal as the baby was about to come out and drove a dagger into the soft spot at the top of its head, would that be considered an abortion?

 

[nolongerhome]

Can someone tell me why the original title of this thread remains?

The woman involved did not abort cellular growth within her body. No pregnancies were terminated. She murdered six fully developed and independently functioning human beings.

It is certainly reasonable to discuss issues relating to what contitutues "life", when it can be said to begin. I don't see why that discussion ought to be carried out under clearly and brazenly expressed falsehoods which were calculated to emotively twist any discussion.

 

[Mling]

If the mother reached towards her birth canal as the baby was about to come out and drove a dagger into the soft spot at the top of its head, would that be considered an abortion?

I would consider it technically an abortion, yes, but the sort of abortion that I find dispicable.

 

[lux et lex]

I started counting and got to 4, so that's the same as 3, right?

Demonstrably no. I don't think any "magic" happens in the birth canal, but the fact remains that an arbitrary line needs to be drawn someplace. When the entity is on one side of the line, one set of terminology is used. When the entity is on the other, another set is used. A fetus miscarries or is stillborn; a fetus exists only on one side the vagina. If the entity is on the other side, then it can't "miscarry." Neither can it be "aborted", for that matter. Of course, "died," works in both cases.

(also, the mother is no longer "pregnant," with the baby, to return to the OP.)

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Verv]

God intends us to use the brains that God gave us. In a medical emergency GO TO A DOCTOR.

Pregnancy: a medical emergency that requires termination?

Alright. So a baby was born and died an hour after birth. Miscarriage?

The word miscarriage was developed so people did not have to announce,

"My wife's baby died inside of her, before birth."

Miscarriaging is still a tragic situation and I assure you no one is happy with that.

When my friend had a miscarriage (as the father) he was quite depressed for a long time.

The only thing that lessens the pain is knowing that there was essentially little to nothing that could be done to prevent it.

 

[laconicstudent]

Pregnancy: a medical emergency that requires termination?

We were talking about ectopic pregnancies. Which, yes, require an abortion.

 

[Verv]

We were talking about ectopic pregnancies. Which, yes, require an abortion.

Sorry.

Will you forgive me?

 

[SuperPhil]

If the mother reached towards her birth canal as the baby was about to come out and drove a dagger into the soft spot at the top of its head, would that be considered an abortion?

What the?! That avatar HAS to be a joke right?