Early Church

[Musa80]

Sometimes I don't know what amuses me more. Comedy central or some of the posts here on CF.

Personally, I'm beginning to find the rank heresy on CF less and less funny and more and more sad and disturbing.

 

[Montalban]

Sometimes I don't know what amuses me more. Comedy central or some of the posts here on CF.

Here that's the train system

 

[MamaZ]

So... you don't believe that authority was given?

And what of this then....

Jhn 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.

Forgive me...

Depends on what you mean by authority. Our forgiveness is not wrapped up in men. Our forgiveness is in Christ the Lord. I don't believe that your interpretation of John with the example you gave is the correct one when reading it in the full context of the scriptures.

 

[MamaZ]

Jesus said we should forgive each other.

But before we go off on ideas of forgiveness, getting back to what we learn from scripture, do you think John had unimportant things to say?

1 John 1: 13 I had many things to write, but I will not with ink and pen write unto thee:

14 But I trust I shall shortly see thee, and we shall speak face to face. Peace be to thee. Our friends salute thee. Greet the friends by name.

He didn't write it down. Given he preferred to pass on his less by word of mouth and given your attributes to what is written do you think what John said was not important, else he'd have written it down?

1Jn 1:1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we beheld, and what our hands touched, as regards the Word of Life.
1Jn 1:2 And the Life was revealed, and we have seen, and we bear witness, and we announce to you the everlasting Life which was with the Father, and was revealed to us.
1Jn 1:3 We announce to you what we have seen, and what we have heard, that you also may have fellowship with us. And truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And we write these things to you, that your joy may be full.
1Jn 1:5 And this is the message which we have heard from Him, and we proclaim to you: God is light, and no darkness is in Him, none!
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and we walk in darkness, we lie and are not practicing the truth.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of His Son Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous that He may forgive us the sins, and may cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Depends on what you mean by authority. Our forgiveness is not wrapped up in men. Our forgiveness is in Christ the Lord. I don't believe that your interpretation of John with the example you gave is the correct one when reading it in the full context of the scriptures.

Authority does not equal power... as the power is from God. Authority is something given.

I hope that you can find it in yourself that you may be wrong about the gift of absolution. The laying on of hands and the affirmation of absolution is good for the soul. Christ God made gave this through HIS Church. If we don't have a Church that can do this for us then we are left starving in our Christian life.

Thanks for your honesty.

Forgive me...

 

[Secundulus]

You mean the Judaizing?

Forgive me...

And the gnosticising.

 

[Tyndale]

Early Church


The church excisted in the time of Moses.

Acts 7:38 states "This is he that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:"

The church in the wilderness fell away from God because the Priests didn't feed the sheep, they Fed themselves.

When Christ came to Earth and offered his sacrifice, his intention was to rebuild the church (the lost sheep of Israel), not to build another one.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I'll go even a step further.

The Church is eternal. Not restricted to time.

Forgive me...

 

[Tyndale]

I'll go even a step further.

The Church is eternal. Not restricted to time.

Forgive me...

Good point. There would have been God's church even before Moses (in the time of adam), although we find no actual word describing such a gathering before Moses

 

[IreneAdler]

So what do you think of Mat 26:28 'For this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins?'

bugkiller

you mean: For this is my blood that ratifies the new covenant , my blood shed on behalf of many, so that they may have their sins forgiven... ?? it's a covenant, not a testament

 

[IreneAdler]

I haven't seen anyone being a Judaizer here or gnostic. But maybe you're just being vague because you cannot make any other points to support this view.

 

[Anglian]

The Christian canon of the NT is not only closed, it was closed long ago. If you have another canon, fair enough, but it amounts to a set of personal preferences with no Divine warrant.

peace,

Anglian

 

[bugkiller]

you mean: For this is my blood that ratifies the new covenant , my blood shed on behalf of many, so that they may have their sins forgiven... ?? it's a covenant, not a testament

covenant and testament are the same thing. Covenant comes more from the Hebrew and Testament comes more from the Greek. They are equavalent words I uses the KJV. There are plenty versions that use covenant.

bugkiller

 

[IreneAdler]

I don't necessarily have another cannon, and frankly books with parts that are included in some "cannons" and not in others is silly and not "set in stone". It's vague. Like I said before, they can't even agree on the version of Daniel that's right much less some verses in Acts and other portions that are or are not from "original manuscripts" which dont' exist anymore.

 

[IreneAdler]

covenant and testament are the same thing. Covenant comes more from the Hebrew and Testament comes more from the Greek. They are equavalent words I uses the KJV. There are plenty versions that use covenant.

bugkiller

the KJV makes alot of things equivalent that are not, like the use of the word nudity/nude in Genesis (two different words are used but don't mean the same thing or there wouldn't be two words now would there?) Covenant and Testament do not mean the same thing. Covenant in the most basic sense is a solemn promise. Testament is tangible proof or expression of conviction or determining the disposition of one's property.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

vague... as in not having a good grasp of what is and what is not Christian?

Like it or not... The canon of scripture is set. IT is Christian.

Forgive me...

 

[Anglian]

I don't necessarily have another cannon, and frankly books with parts that are included in some "cannons" and not in others is silly and not "set in stone". It's vague. Like I said before, they can't even agree on the version of Daniel that's right much less some verses in Acts and other portions that are or are not from "original manuscripts" which dont' exist anymore.

The Canon on which there is no agreement is that of the Old testament. There is no disagreement on the Canon of the New Testament amongst any Christian Church I have come across; but then I may not have come across yours, of course.

peace,

Anglian

 

[IreneAdler]

No it's not. YOUR cannon from YOUR church body is set, but it's not even definitive because it doesn't follow the people who came before you, where Christ arose from, so I fail to see how it's somehow perfect just because it's what you believe.

 

[IreneAdler]

The Canon on which there is no agreement is that of the Old testament. There is no disagreement on the Canon of the New Testament amongst any Christian Church I have come across; but then I may not have come across yours, of course.

peace,

Anglian

check out Acts in various bibles

 

[bugkiller]

Early Church


The church excisted in the time of Moses.

Acts 7:38 states "This is he that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:"

The church in the wilderness fell away from God because the Priests didn't feed the sheep, they Fed themselves.

When Christ came to Earth and offered his sacrifice, his intention was to rebuild the church (the lost sheep of Israel), not to build another one.

I guess it depends on your understanding. What we call the church did not exist in the wilderness of Sinai. You are appllying a 21st century meaning here. I do think it is anunfortunate mistranslation, espceially for techies.

bugkiller