What all religion are really saying is..

[jpcedotal]

Take a look around the world and you will see that the most desperately poor countries on earth are the most religious (apart from the oil rich countries, and they would be if they didn't have oil)
even in America the desperate parts are where religion thrives and academic achievement is lowest.

Those are also the places where "Help our fellow man" and "Love thy neighbor" and "sharing" and "giving" are predominate and the most obvious.

 

[durangodawood]

Take a look around the world and you will see that the most desperately poor countries on earth are the most religious (apart from the oil rich countries, and they would be if they didn't have oil)
even in America the desperate parts are where religion thrives and academic achievement is lowest.

But what if religion follows, not leads, that trend?
.

 

[sidhe]

Take a look around the world and you will see that the most desperately poor countries on earth are the most religious (apart from the oil rich countries, and they would be if they didn't have oil)
even in America the desperate parts are where religion thrives and academic achievement is lowest.

Correlation does not equal causation. It could be that poverty provides fertile ground for the hope in a better life after death. Or it could be complete chance. You're assuming causation without evidence.

 

[dingdong]

Isn't that what you are saying?

So you dont believe not because there isn't a God but because no one can prove that there is a God,

I want you to believe whatever you want, my opinion should not be allowed to influance you in any way, if you want to believe there is a God then for you there is a God.
I don't believe there is a God, you do, good for you.

 

[dingdong]

Correlation does not equal causation. It could be that poverty provides fertile ground for the hope in a better life after death. Or it could be complete chance. You're assuming causation without evidence.

You can believe whatever helps you stay religious, it's all down to you.

 

[RedRaven]

Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A little from the link:

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other (though it does not remove the fact that correlation can still be a hint, whether powerful or otherwise[1][2]).
The opposite belief, correlation proves causation, is a logical fallacy by which two events that occur together are claimed to have a cause-and-effect relationship.

You aren't really making a good case with snarky or sarcastic remarks. Science doesn't back up the claim you made plain and simple. You have no desire to learn, or expand the little knowledge you seem to have about religion in general and with that I have no idea why you would want to be a part of a forum where religious discussion happens for the sake of learning and getting past misconceptions. You're posting really suggests you have no desire to do either.

 

[sidhe]

You can believe whatever helps you stay religious, it's all down to you.

Your lack of concrete research and evidenced support for your statements makes happy librarian sad. Your insistence that this is an intellectually superior position makes sad librarian angry. Angry librarian become hateful librarian. Hateful librarian becomes Sith librarian.

And, as I'm fond of saying, you realize that your behavior demonstrates the correctness of my belief system, don't you? Not in the "Oh, look at the persecution!" way, either. You're behaving exactly how you wish to behave. Whether it is correct or not is not my place to judge...that's between you and your non-God...your AL-LA*.






*AL is "god" in Hebrew. "LA" is "nothing." It's really a ridiculously profound Qabalistic statement on the nature of deity to refer to said deity as ALLA, the ain that proceeds the first emanation of deity being "nothingness." Your mileage may vary. Please check your owner's manual for the maintenance schedule for your vehicle. Thank you for your patronage. This has been a public service announcement on Channel 156, local 93. The time is now 4:18, and in 56 minutes the family sitcom Hadit Knows Best will begin. What wacky hijinks will Ra-Hoor-Khuit get into this week? And will he finally talk to the girl next door, Babalon? Everyone else seems to! And Hadit tries to fix the basic brokenness of the world by having a private conversation with Nuit. Craziness! DO NOT TAUNT THIS POST! If your CPU temperature is exactly 49*C, this post will cause the Apocalypse. It may have already done so. 93 93/93!

 

[Supreme]

My age has nothing to do with it, in fact I could ask you the same thing, what are you doing still believing the stories you were told as a child? and if you were not told the stories what are you doing believing them now? you are grown up now and should know better.

As a child I was told stories of how water evaporates and how it condenses in a process of the water cycle. I was told stories of how electricity passes through a circuit, and stories of how World War 2 started, of how the Tudors governed Medieval England and stories of how the Ancient Egyptians live. Just because a child hears a story, does that mean they have to discount such a story when they grow older? Does a story grow redundant or less true as a human being ages? Of course not.

Now, the reason WW, myself and others on here think you have not yet fully completed basic education is that your arguments lack structure or style. Y'know, I'd like to see some revolutionary atheistic arguments, ones which I can give a second thought to and know the atheist has actually thought about their religious position. Not ones that have been refuted on numerous occassions. I need arguments that will test (and ultimately, strengthen) my faith. Not such lacklustre trivial points. I don't blame you. You've come on to this forum to learn, and undoubtedly you will learn. Perhaps by degrees, but learn nonetheless. You will get better, but as Leona Lewis once said, it shall take time.

 

[durangodawood]

As a child I was told stories of how water evaporates and how it condenses in a process of the water cycle. I was told stories of how electricity passes through a circuit, and stories of how World War 2 started, of how the Tudors governed Medieval England and stories of how the Ancient Egyptians live. Just because a child hears a story, does that mean they have to discount such a story when they grow older? Does a story grow redundant or less true as a human being ages? Of course not.

Now, the reason WW, myself and others on here think you have not yet fully completed basic education is that your arguments lack structure or style. Y'know, I'd like to see some revolutionary atheistic arguments, ones which I can give a second thought to and know the atheist has actually thought about their religious position. Not ones that have been refuted on numerous occassions. I need arguments that will test (and ultimately, strengthen) my faith. Not such lacklustre trivial points. I don't blame you. You've come on to this forum to learn, and undoubtedly you will learn. Perhaps by degrees, but learn nonetheless. You will get better, but as Leona Lewis once said, it shall take time.

I like this post.
.
I cant tell if dingdong is simply unimaginative, or is deliberately swinging atheism around like a blunt object, hoping it will shatter bone... stong or brittle bone.
.
I have to admit, sometimes I like the dumb violent approach as an alternative to endless reasoning about what is essentially un-reasonable.
.
(Nice to see you got a hat that doesnt hover like a halo, btw)
.

 

[humblemuslim]

We believe in nothing.

I can see you are trying to vent some frustrations you have for religion.

Even well formulated arguments have not eliminated religions, let alone ambiguous outbursts. So what exactly are you trying to accomplish by making these ambiguous statements?

 

[Zstar]

My age has nothing to do with it, in fact I could ask you the same thing, what are you doing still believing the stories you were told as a child? and if you were not told the stories what are you doing believing them now? you are grown up now and should know better.

Please tell me where the wisdom is in old myths about supernatural beings, I don't deny the Bible and the other religious books contain some solid ideas about life and living but the idea that there is another life after this one is nothing more than wishful thinking.

I truly believe that religions do more harm than good.
.

Bingo, Dingdong - I totally agree with you. What disturbs me about it is that when these children do grow up, after getting brainwashed that the earth is 7,000 years old and finding out we are on a tiny speck of a planet in an expansive universe millions of years old it completley brings the validity of thier "SCRIPTURES" into question.

Think about it - teach our children the truth about everything we are learning about the Earth and Space or continue on with these myths replacing that truth?

I'm O.K. with ledgends but I don't think they need to preceed reality.

 

[b&wpac4]

Bingo, Dingdong - I totally agree with you. What disturbs me about it is that when these children do grow up, after getting brainwashed that the earth is 7,000 years old and finding out we are on a tiny speck of a planet in an expansive universe millions of years old it completley brings the validity of thier "SCRIPTURES" into question.

Think about it - teach our children the truth about everything we are learning about the Earth and Space or continue on with these myths replacing that truth?

I'm O.K. with ledgends but I don't think they need to preceed reality.

Which ideas do I hold that are "dangerous" or will cause my children harm to pass on?

 

[RedRaven]

Bingo, Dingdong - I totally agree with you. What disturbs me about it is that when these children do grow up, after getting brainwashed that the earth is 7,000 years old and finding out we are on a tiny speck of a planet in an expansive universe millions of years old it completley brings the validity of thier "SCRIPTURES" into question.

Think about it - teach our children the truth about everything we are learning about the Earth and Space or continue on with these myths replacing that truth?

I'm O.K. with ledgends but I don't think they need to preceed reality.

more painting with a broad brush

 

[dingdong]

You aren't really making a good case with snarky or sarcastic remarks. Science doesn't back up the claim you made plain and simple. You have no desire to learn, or expand the little knowledge you seem to have about religion in general and with that I have no idea why you would want to be a part of a forum where religious discussion happens for the sake of learning and getting past misconceptions. You're posting really suggests you have no desire to do either.

I do not need to make a case the people who say there is a God are the ones who need to make a case.

Please tell me if the religious countries are the poor countries, if they are religion has either caused it or is stopping them from getting out of their poverty, either way they are poor and will remain poor because of religion, it's a bit like creationists not wanting to accept science, they would rather remain ignorant than live with the reality of the Bible not being a history book.

What/How can you or anyone teach me about something that does not exist?
what do you know about Unicorns? because you seem to be ignorant about Unicorns.

 

[dingdong]

Your lack of concrete research and evidenced support for your statements makes happy librarian sad. Your insistence that this is an intellectually superior position makes sad librarian angry. Angry librarian become hateful librarian. Hateful librarian becomes Sith librarian.

My lack of concrete research and evidenced support .....forgive me... please tell me about the concrete research and evidenced support that has been done on proving the existence of Gods.

And, as I'm fond of saying, you realize that your behavior demonstrates the correctness of my belief system, don't you? Not in the "Oh, look at the persecution!" way, either. You're behaving exactly how you wish to behave. Whether it is correct or not is not my place to judge...that's between you and your non-God...your AL-LA*.

So someone saying they do not believe in your God just reinforces the truth of your belief system, I can see that,
that makes perfect sense, I'm surprised I didn't realise that sooner.

 

[dingdong]

Which ideas do I hold that are "dangerous" or will cause my children harm to pass on?

Do you tell them that Santa Claus is a real person and ask them to believe it all of their lives? no because Santa Claus is not a real person,
so why do you tell them about Gods that don't exist? why don't you just teach them to be good people and leave out the myths?

 

[dingdong]

more painting with a broad brush

A broad brush is necessary because we always need to leave you with a way out.

 

[Under Grace]

Do you tell them that Santa Claus is a real person and ask them to believe it all of their lives? no because Santa Claus is not a real person,
so why do you tell them about Gods that don't exist? why don't you just teach them to be good people and leave out the myths?

Without Faith in the Christian G*d, you will never experience a miracle. You will never pray and be healed from a disease. You will never pray for others and see healing. You will never experience speaking in different languages (but not getting schooled for it). You will never interpret dreams. You will never prophesy. You will never experience G*d's wisdom. You will never be able to differentiate between spirits. Finally, you will not be brought back to life. G*d bless.

 

[dingdong]

Without Faith in the Christian G*d, you will never experience a miracle. You will never pray and be healed from a disease. You will never pray for others and see healing. You will never experience speaking in different languages (but not getting schooled for it). You will never interpret dreams. You will never prophesy. You will never experience G*d's wisdom. You will never be able to differentiate between spirits. Finally, you will not be brought back to life. G*d bless.

Sadly neither will Christians, they just think they do/will.
What a world of dreams you must live in, I almost envy you.

 

[nicknack28]

I'd just like to submit a defense of broad-brushing -- it's needed. Not everything can be discussed practically by taking into account the unique qualities of all possible parties, philosophies, religions, ideas, etc. concerned. If a description fits the majority of what one addresses then a broad brush is perfectly suitable. There are definitely times for big broad brushes and times for small fine brushes. It's just using the right kind for the right situation that's important.

I've no particular stance on that being discussed in the thread but felt broad-brushing itself shouldn't be getting a bad rap... just the misapplication of it. It's the same situation with generalizations and stereotypes. Generalizations can be useful when they summarize accurately and stereotypes have reasons why they're such common understandings.