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Can a Christian be a Freemason???

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Rev Wayne

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The thing is, the truth of it is subtle at the lower levels, but the higher level folks are held to a vow to keep the truth from the lower levels.
A common misconception. I can't help but notice you don't back up this nonsense. Let me help you get your head on straight concerning this point. There are so many people who misunderstand, mis-quote, and misrepresent Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma, it's pathetic. Much of it is done deliberately in slice-and-dice fashion that makes the claims nothing less than outright lies, and by people who profess to be "Christian" or even to be engaging in "ministry" while doing so.

Most of the material in Pike's book was already disproven by Robert Gould's History of Freemasonry, which published a short time before Pike was to publish his work. Since he was already so far along in this work of over 800 pages, Pike, not wanting to have the work become a colossal waste of time and effort, took it to publication anyway, with a preface instructing the reader to discard any or all of it if he wished.

Not that there was any need to do so anyway, it's passe by now. To top that off, it was prepared for the Scottish Rite's Southern Jurisdiction, making it inapplicable to the majority of Masons in the first place, who have never taken a single degree of Scottish Rite.

But the most glaring refutation of what you claimed is, Pike based the comment on a presumption of a Freemasonry that pre-dates even Christianity. In that he was indisputably wrong, Gould's history has shown Masonry to be rooted in medieval England, and no earlier.

But the idea that anyone "takes a vow" to keep secrets from others in Masonry is a total misread of Pike anyway. The passage cited in "support" of that claim merely says that Masonry, like any symbolic system, can be hard to interpret, particularly by those who are new to it. I suppose those who wish to find a snake under every rock will imagine they see one even when none appears.
 
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Rev Wayne

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It is no misconception.
I'm afraid even that conception is a misconception.

Make all the unsubstantiated claims you wish, what I said stands as a matter of record for anyone to read, Morals and Dogma, p. 106-7 and p. 818-19.

But a significant point to note about this particular accusation, is not what we find in Morals and Dogma itself, but what antimason accusers do with it. And in that regard, the latter of these two references is a classic. One of the seminal works criticizing Freemasonry was John Ankerberg’s The Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge (1989). Here is the quote of Pike as it appears on p. 256 of that book:

The symbols of the wise always become the idols of the ignorant multitude. What the Chiefs of the Order really believed and taught, is indicated to the Adepts by the hints contained in the high Degrees of Free-Masonry, and by the symbols which only the Adepts understand.

The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. The whole body of the Royal and Sacerdotal Art was hidden so carefully, centuries since, in the High Degrees, as that it is even yet impossible to solve many of the enigmas which they contain. It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain, and without any true reward violate his obligations as an Adept.

Now take a look at this passage as it appears, in context, when the entire paragraph in which it appears gets included:

[It is absurd to suppose that men of intellect adored a monstrous idol called Baphomet, or recognized Mahomet as an inspired prophet. Their symbolism, invented ages before, to conceal what it was dangerous to avow, was of course misunderstood by those who were not adepts, and to their enemies seemed to be pantheistic. The calf of gold, made by Aaron for the Israelites, was but one of the oxen under the laver of bronze, and the Karobim on the Propitiatory, misunderstood. The symbols of the wise always become the idols of the ignorant multitude. What the Chiefs of the Order really believed and taught, is indicated to the Adepts by the hints contained in the high Degrees of Free-Masonry, and by the symbols which only the Adepts understand.

[The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. The whole body of the Royal and Sacerdotal Art was hidden so carefully, centuries since, in the High Degrees, as that it is even yet impossible to solve many of the enigmas which they contain. It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain, and without any true reward violate his obligations as an Adept. Masonry is the veritable Sphinx, buried to the head in the sands heaped round it by the ages.]

The significant part of the context is the introductory sentence:

It is absurd to suppose that men of intellect adored a monstrous idol called Baphomet, or recognized Mahomet as an inspired prophet.

In the first passage, with this key sentence omitted, it makes it appear that when Pike speaks of “the symbols of the wise” always becoming “the idols of the ignorant multitude,” that he was referring to the adepts vs the initiates of Masonry.

But look again: Pike is addressing the idiotic accusations raised by “the ignorant multitude” who have tried to suggest Masonic “worship” of Baphomet!!

In other words, the accusers at whom Pike most certainly AIMED these remarks, have turned this on its head to try to make it a source of their further condemnation of Freemasonry. And they do so by deliberate omission of that which would refute their claim.


But as for anyone considering this “proof” that “Masonry conceals its secrets” from those of the (supposedly) “lower” degrees, Pike’s claims are their own refutation. Notice that he says:

The whole body of the Royal and Sacerdotal Art was hidden so carefully, centuries since, in the High Degrees, as that it is even yet impossible to solve many of the enigmas which they contain.

In other words, the claim is, “these things were hidden centuries ago, and no one has figured out the puzzle yet.” This presents two insurmountable problems for the accusation of concealment:

(1) If no one has managed to “solve the enigmas” of these degrees yet, how then can the claim be made that those of the “higher” degrees are concealing them, or that someone has taken a vow to conceal that which no one knows the meaning of in the first place? That is completely absurd.

(2) The claim that they were hidden “centuries” earlier is an anachronistic claim and a logical impossibility. It is amazing that Pike himself would not know the history of derivation of the Scottish Rite degrees. The predecessor of the Rite as we know it today was “The Order of the Royal Secret,” established under the Constitutions of 1762. The Rite was not extended to 33 degrees until the Grand Constitutions of 1786.

Anyone with the least familiarity with Masonry will understand the logical disjunct immediately: How could those of the “higher degrees” have been concealing secrets from those of the Blue Degrees for “centuries,” when Blue Lodge Masonry, with a modern founding in 1717, predates the 33-degree Scottish Rite by 69 YEARS????

THAT is the 64,000-dollar question. When you can come up with an answer for it, only THEN may you again make any accusation worth listening to, concerning any “concealment among higher degree Masons.” Make the accusation again without providing any solution for this logical dilemma, and you only join the false accusers in their ridiculous assertions.
 
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KM Richards

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But the only place that these so-called "oaths" are found is in anti-Masonic boks and on anti-Masonic websites. Several of these have been proven to be fake.

My dad was a mason and he got me into "demolay" which is indoctrination of young men in preparation to lead them further into the masonic order when they come of age...

And, yes they did require me to make oaths to a number of things that are in opposition to biblical teachings which I renounced later after becoming a Christians.

Heck, they had to cheat to get me in because I had to memorize all this stuff and be able to recite it and I couldn't remember all that stuff that I didn't understand, not cared anything about (I was in junior-high, and being stoned half the time didn't help either :o )
 
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O.F.F.

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A christian cannot be yoked with freemasonery, because simply Freemasonry is PAgan Devil worshipping cult ...

PAGAN PAGAN PAGAN to th core ...and God help anyone even messing with that filth..

Amen, my brother, amen. . .
 
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cemab4y

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There is nothing in Freemasonry, that is in any way opposed to the religion of Jesus of Nazareth. Nowhere in Masonry, is there any satanism, or any other such rubbish.

The wide majority of Freemasons in the USA, are Christians. This is a documented fact, no dispute.
 
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AoDoA

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There is nothing in Freemasonry, that is in any way opposed to the religion of Jesus of Nazareth. Nowhere in Masonry, is there any satanism, or any other such rubbish.

The wide majority of Freemasons in the USA, are Christians. This is a documented fact, no dispute.

simply untrue
 
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simply untrue

I am not a members of the Masons, but my father and several uncles were or are members. All were or are dedicated members of their churches.

Do you have any eveidence to back up your statement, or is it simply your opinion.
 
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AoDoA

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I am not a members of the Masons, but my father and several uncles were or are members. All were or are dedicated members of their churches.

Do you have any eveidence to back up your statement, or is it simply your opinion.

I'll give you quote from Albert Pike on the matter

don't let some try and convince you that he was nobody or I'm misunderstanding his statements

"To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees – The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine.

"If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay (The God of the Christians) whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy, and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him ?

" Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also God. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two Gods : darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive.



" Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophic religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."



these quotes are all genuine
 
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AoDoA

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"When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare."

Manly P. Hall 33rd degree(considered to be Masonry's greatest philosopher)
 
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AoDoA

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"Lucifer is divine and terrestrial light, the 'Holy Ghost' and 'Satan,' at one and the same time, visible Space being truly filled with the differentiated Breath invisibly."

HP Blavatsky(very important person in the Luciferian world and made an honorary Mason because of her work)

"The Mysteries Of Magic' by Eliphas Levi "What is more absurd and more impious than to attribute the name of Lucifer to the devil, that is, to personified evil. The intellectual Lucifer is the spirit of intelligence and love; it is the paraclete, it is the Holy Spirit, while the physical Lucifer is the great agent of universal magnetism." page 428.

'The Book Of Black Magic' by Arthur Edward Waite 33° "First Conjuration Addressed to Emperor Lucifer. Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode, in what-ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in the Name of the Mighty Living God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, to appear without noise and without ...." page 244.

'The Secret Teaching Of All Ages' by Manly Palmer Hall 33° "I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince of Demons, that each year I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as as it may please him, and in return Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfil my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him. Signed..... { Invocant signs pact with his own blood } " page CIV.

theres so much out there these days on these guys(freemasons) and what they are into

its so blatantly Anti-Christ
 
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I'll give you quote from Albert Pike on the matter

don't let some try and convince you that he was nobody or I'm misunderstanding his statements

"To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees – The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine.

"If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay (The God of the Christians) whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy, and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him ?

" Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also God. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two Gods : darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive.

"Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophic religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."

these quotes are all genuine

I wouldn't allow anyone to convince me that Albert Pike was a "nobody," because he was a person of some importance--Confederate general, lawyer, author and court reporter. I have never read his 900-page book Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. However, I wonder whether the material that you have provided--even if it is correct--is being quoted in context. It is easy to cite selected sentences, but it is impossible to see the true meaning without understanding the context.

Second, the preface of this book clearly states "Everyone is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound."

Third, the book only applies to the Scottish Rite, which is only a small part of Masonry. In addition, it was never adopted by the northern Scottish Rite, only by the southern jurisdiction.

As I said before, I am not a Mason, but I have known some dedicated Christians who were Masons.
 
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AoDoA

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I wouldn't allow anyone to convince me that Albert Pike was a "nobody," because he was a person of some importance--Confederate general, lawyer, author and court reporter. I have never read his 900-page book Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. However, I wonder whether the material that you have provided--even if it is correct--is being quoted in context. It is easy to cite selected sentences, but it is impossible to see the true meaning without understanding the context.

Second, the preface of this book clearly states "Everyone is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound."

Third, the book only applies to the Scottish Rite, which is only a small part of Masonry. In addition, it was never adopted by the northern Scottish Rite, only by the southern jurisdiction.

As I said before, I am not a Mason, but I have known some dedicated Christians who were Masons.

I have the book in PDF format

if you can show how I've taken these quotes out of context then by all means
 
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I have the book in PDF format

if you can show how I've taken these quotes out of context then by all means

I just found this book on Googlebooks. Please provide me with the page numbers for the material that you quoted, I would like to read them in context.

BTW, you did not address the material contained in the preface of this book which clearly states "Everyone is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound." You also did not address the fact that the book only applies to the Scottish Rite, which is only a small part of Masonry, and in fact it was only adopted by the southern jurisdiction of Scottish Rite, which is relatively small.
 
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wayseer

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Manly P. Hall 33rd degree(considered to be Masonry's greatest philosopher)

Forget about grand sounding titles such as 33rd degree. These are what are called side degrees and have little to do with the Craft Lodge. Besides, Hall or Pike are not considered the greatest philosopher in FM. These are purely individual who have written their own ideas and have no bearing on the Craft other than mildly interesting. It's a bit like quoting New Age philosophy to argue about the veracity of the Bible - a non-event really.

You have read Pike - all 900 odd pages?

You have obviously not read all of Pike particularly where he cautions his readers not to treat his work as 'dogmatic'.

If you want to consult recognized works have a look at the Prestonian Lectures. These are the only - I repeat ONLY - series of works or writings that have the imprimatur of the United Grand Lodge of England and in that respect carry the authority of FM. All else is speculation.
 
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