Some Evangelical Christians evangelizing in predominantly Christian countries

[Rhamiel]

Why do they need another Christian faith? Isn't being Christian good enough? Are you suggesting they need to try the smorgosbord variety of Christianity to pick and choose? To what end? The point is that they are Christian. If you're talking about nonChristian "other faiths" then I guess that's another topic all together.

i would say that the point of them doing that is, their are many people in every Church and denomination, who claim to be christian but do not really live a christian life, so maybe they hope that the way they phrase the Gospel of our Lord might help the people who did not really understand the RC or EO Church, also these countries have Muslims or Athiests who might be reached, this is not ment to excuse the proslytizers, just to tell you their justification
this is the most charitable explantation, some of them just do not think we are really Christian at all

if you really want to help Christians in Russia, then help the Russian Orthodox Church, they allready have the buildings (and some of our buildings too but we are not going to get into that) and the people on the ground and they understand the culture and language because THEY ARE THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH!!! they can teach the Gospel to the Russian people better then americans can!!!

 

[bbbbbbb]

Just one quick historical note. Billy Graham was the first Protestant to preach in Russia after its fall to communism. He did so during the communist regime and he did so at the invitation of the Russian Orthodox Church and he preached in Russian Orthodox Churches as well as Baptist Churches there.

 

[Thekla]

Invitation is different

 

[bbbbbbb]

I'm sorry, I still don't know much more about the OChurch in Pella than I did yesterday. I checked the website, and saw few surnames; there's little for me to go on. And I don't think haircolor is a strong indicator of much other than ... haircolor.

As for the Assyrian Orthodox Church, it is not tmk an EO Church (ie I do not think there is a connection between EO and the Assyrian OChurch, and IIRC, it has its origin in India, which might be helpful if you wish to research it).

There have been innumerable converts in every Parish I've attended. (Just among my own 'spiritual family', we've Irish/Swedish, English/German, German, and English-Scottish/Greek convert kombara.)

My experiences with the Assyrian church (which is a minority within a minority) have been quite positive. They seem to have a strong focus on the gospel and are reaching out to those who are in need of hearing it, and that includes nominal Protestants. I rejoice when any person comes to a sincere faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[bbbbbbb]

i cannot get over this you made me ROFL... especially with your Avatar you look Assyrian girl

Except your blue eyes...Nice avatar BTW

I will have to send bbbbbb my hair color bottle I use every month coloring my hair dirty blond as my black hair have turn to gray... You could say I was born blond... haha...as I have been coloring my hair light for some time now... No wonder if you enter any EO church today you will see a variety of hair color...

From strawberry red to light blond in women and children since some are born blond but their hair color changes over time. This thread is indeed very interesting one...

That is an evidence that the EO church missionize the hair color of its parishioners hmmm.... So what happens to free will... ? Do the EO church he mentions stand by the other Christian church by the corner and "snatches" out parishioners from them? Because I have seen this hapenning in other countries in Europe that have EO churches... If he can bring forth that style of sheep steeling evangelization we will be ok then.

Ah, I am fortunate then. I have had brown hair all my life, although, to my surprise, New Yorkers (who mostly have black hair) consider it to be blonde. My problem is that my beard turned white and my head is still brown. Maybe a bottle of your hair color could rectify my problem.

 

[Thekla]

I am relentlessly marching toward white

(As a child, I had a fear that my hair would turn pink in old age - I'm a redhead - so white is acceptable )

 

[bbbbbbb]

Dear brother,

I come from a country which is historically recognized as the first Christian nation in the world. Christianity is the reason why Armenia has an alphabet, music (both secular and spiritual) and the majority of the history is written by Vartabeds (Doctors of the Church). Additionally, most of the cultural and national events/holidays are rooted in a religious tradition. For countries such as Armenia Orthodoxy is deeply engraved into the people that it wholly defines an individuals moral structure, national and individual identity on a basic level.



I would say simply for self preservation as a part of the national identity. It would also say that religion can be used and has been used as a political catalyst. Look for example at Christianity and how it has affected politics for individual rights, equality.

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I agree with you but, we must not forget that Faith also help form nationalities and there identities. For example the underlying meaning of modern democracy was defined by the United States, based on Christian principles. These Christian principles are what have helped form its national identity. Believe it or not it is faith, whether Christian, Muslim, Atheism, or Buddhism had a great influence on the national identities and ideologies.

You make an excellent point. I have observed this among many Chinese people from China. They perceive the United States as a Christian country and recognize that Christianity served as the basis for forming its national identity. As a result, they are keenly interested in becoming both Americans and Christians. The difficulty, of course, is sorting out the non-Christian elements of Americanism today.

 

[Dorothea]

i would say that the point of them doing that is, their are many people in every Church and denomination, who claim to be christian but do not really live a christian life, so maybe they hope that the way they phrase the Gospel of our Lord might help the people who did not really understand the RC or EO Church, also these countries have Muslims or Athiests who might be reached, this is not ment to excuse the proslytizers, just to tell you their justification
this is the most charitable explantation, some of them just do not think we are really Christian at all

if you really want to help Christians in Russia, then help the Russian Orthodox Church, they allready have the buildings (and some of our buildings too but we are not going to get into that) and the people on the ground and they understand the culture and language because THEY ARE THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH!!! they can teach the Gospel to the Russian people better then americans can!!!

Sounds like what I've said and responded to and agree with you, Rhamiel.

 

[bbbbbbb]

BECAUSE IT IS EASY. PEOPLE DON'T LIKE DOING THINGS THAT ARE HARD.

This reminds me of my own niece who is hoping to become a missionary. Her boyfriend also has the same interest. I met him briefly recently. He is thinking of going to the Arabian peninsula. One cannot imagine a much harder mission field than that. Of course, I doubt he has any real inkling as to how hard and dangerous it is.

My sister-in-law was horrified that her daughter might marry such a fellow. She thinks her daughter should be a missionary in some civilized Spanish-speaking country where she can sing songs to children in Sunday School. My niece is proficient in Spanish and neither she nor her boyfriend understand a single word of Arabic.

My brother fails to understand why I am opposed to my niece's career plans.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes, I can understand that. I'm wondering the motives of the Baptists using icons. Are they trying to "fit in" and be sincere, or are they just using these "tools" for another less than charitable reason?

There may be another reason. In the 1920's in America there was a movement within some of the Baptist churches in America known as the Landmark movement. The primary motivation was to prove that the Baptist church was not a Protestant church, but was the Church that Christ founded and which had existed from the beginning. Toward that end their scholars discovered a lineage of Baptist saints.

Tremont Temple Baptist Church in Boston has a set of stained glass windows depicting some of these Baptist saints. For all intents and purpose you might call them icons.

Needless to say, the Landmark movement of the Baptists quickly faded.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Let me do a reverse situation here. When Greek families came over, they knew there were other Christians here and many that weren't what they were. They accepted the fact that they were Christians. They did not try and change them to EO. I grew up with many Protestant friends. I knew they were Christians. I didn't try to convert them. So, does it really boil down to the insulting view that some Protestants don't believe the EO (or RCC) are Christian? And if so....who needs teaching and knowledge given to them?

This is an interesting point. I grew up in a RC city. My Greek Orthodox friends and I were heavily treated by the RC's as non-Christians. I did not have any difficulty in perceiving that my Greek Orthodox friends were also Christians. In fact, I thought that the Greek Orthodox and the Jews were just different varieties of Protestants because the Catholics hated us all.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I am relentlessly marching toward white

(As a child, I had a fear that my hair would turn pink in old age - I'm a redhead - so white is acceptable )

I have always said that I don't care what color my hair is as long as I have a full head of it. I am glad that I come from a family with very thick hair.

 

[lionroar0]

This is an interesting point. I grew up in a RC city. My Greek Orthodox friends and I were heavily treated by the RC's as non-Christians. I did not have any difficulty in perceiving that my Greek Orthodox friends were also Christians. In fact, I thought that the Greek Orthodox and the Jews were just different varieties of Protestants because the Catholics hated us all.

That's one reason why I'm happy that vatican II took place. What you describe above is pre-vatican II mentality.

 

[Dorothea]

There may be another reason. In the 1920's in America there was a movement within some of the Baptist churches in America known as the Landmark movement. The primary motivation was to prove that the Baptist church was not a Protestant church, but was the Church that Christ founded and which had existed from the beginning. Toward that end their scholars discovered a lineage of Baptist saints.

Tremont Temple Baptist Church in Boston has a set of stained glass windows depicting some of these Baptist saints. For all intents and purpose you might call them icons.

Needless to say, the Landmark movement of the Baptists quickly faded.

I wonder who these Baptist saints are. What century did the Baptist church start up? Can't remember. Thanks for explanation, b7, and I can see what you're saying on the last paragraph/sentence. Yes, indeed.

 

[Dorothea]

This is an interesting point. I grew up in a RC city. My Greek Orthodox friends and I were heavily treated by the RC's as non-Christians. I did not have any difficulty in perceiving that my Greek Orthodox friends were also Christians. In fact, I thought that the Greek Orthodox and the Jews were just different varieties of Protestants because the Catholics hated us all.

Hadn't heard about that. Of course, there was a time when the Greek Orthodox and Catholics didn't get along too well, many years ago in Greece. Philothei, correct me if I'm wrong! Of course, in America, reading a story about a Greek immigrant family to the Chicago area in the early 1920's, it seems anybody that wasn't English or German or Polish (believe it or not) was discriminated againgst. Luckily, that changed over time. The Jews being a variety of Protestant is certainly a different perspective I have not heard before.

 

[Secundulus]

I wonder who these Baptist saints are. What century did the Baptist church start up? Can't remember. Thanks for explanation, b7, and I can see what you're saying on the last paragraph/sentence. Yes, indeed.

The Baptist Church (as opposed to the Anabaptists) began in the early 17th Century in England when the more puritanical elements separated from the Anglican Church.

 

[Dorothea]

The Baptist Church (as opposed to the Anabaptists) began in the early 17th Century in England when the more puritanical elements separated from the Anglican Church.

Thanks, Secundulus.

 

[Anglian]

Because I understand or I tguess I think I do let me add also that to the discussion. Anglian you are saying "if the church is not doing its work properly...." you keep repeating that like the standard is....what? What is the sign that the church is not doing its job properly?
What does it mean to you what is to be done "properly" that is not done? When we get down to the specifics I think it is faith bottom line. Have I have seen the existing protestant missions to thrive and attract a massive number of converts from those lapsed EO in Russia or in Greece I might have been convinced... but as yet I have not seen that at all. From what I have seen is fast converts who usually de-convert either to the EO or at worse they do the denominational church "hoping" we experience here in America. The numbers are not at all impressive.

That suggests that the Church is doing its job right By that I mean proper catechesis so that people understand why they believe what the Church teaches. There won't be many 'converts' where that has happened.

Your post went on to describe some tremendous work being done by the Church in Greece. That would suggest to me that there's no reason for a law to ban foreign missionaries. Why is such a law needed? If no one wants what Protestants bring then the market economy will actually work - the Protestants will go away. It is the law which I fail to understand. If no one wants the missionaries, why ban them? Are you not losing an opportunity to evangelise them for Orthodoxy?

Managing someone's spiritual formation presupposes knowing the people their culture and ethos. Example : Greek Evangelicals (they have a looong history in Greece) are in Greece for a while now since Greece became finally a state. They are a recognized group etc. They do worship by making the sign of the cross etc. their membership has not raised significally despite their history and continious presence in Greece. the same applies to the Catholics and the other groups there. The lapsed EO still remain the same numbers etc. I bet the same is in England with all churches (like Anglian said ) 2 million church goers out of what population?

I quite agree with what you say here. But the UK is vastly different. 2 million out of a population of 60 million. I have spent thirty years teaching in a UK University and the number of young people with any knowledge of the Christian Faith is perilously low; it has become progressively worse. My own priest was recently asked if he was a Muslim - clearly the pectoral cross told the young people who asked him nothing

It seems as though Greece has a law she does not need I'd suggest any Evangelicals heading for Greece should stop off in the UK - there's a huge task for them to do. They'd never get around to leaving!

peace,

Anglian

 

[boswd]

There may be another reason. In the 1920's in America there was a movement within some of the Baptist churches in America known as the Landmark movement. The primary motivation was to prove that the Baptist church was not a Protestant church, but was the Church that Christ founded and which had existed from the beginning. Toward that end their scholars discovered a lineage of Baptist saints.

Tremont Temple Baptist Church in Boston has a set of stained glass windows depicting some of these Baptist saints. For all intents and purpose you might call them icons.

Needless to say, the Landmark movement of the Baptists quickly faded.

I know of the Tremont Temple Baptist Church. Extremely ornate for a Baptist Church. Very much out of character. It is gorgous and is a treasure

 

[racer]

I'm guessing Philothei could answer better on this with specifics, but you're questioning something that is....hmmm....wasn't an issue until the past several decades. Orthodox Christianity was what spread through Greece (as I'm sure you know) around 200 years ago, . It continued to thrive and grow throughout the centuries. Why would the Greek people need another form on Christiniaity when they have one? What would be the purpose? Learning about other different sects of Christianity? What would be the point? They're in the EO, and other countries that had EO as their main Christian belief. Why would you think they'd need to have differnt choices or "knowledge" of other Christian beliefs? I still don't see the point. What is the real question behind the question?

Just because Orthodoxy may have been the first church to spread throughout Greece and has thrived for years (centuries), it does not mean that there are people who are not necessarily believers but simply object to something the Orthodox church teaches, therefore they are not practicing believers. They may simply attend the Orthodox Church because it is the only one there. Denying them information about what other faiths teach is not really right.