The law was abolished.

[Frogster]

I believe the law was abolished for the Chrisitan,in Jesus’ flesh.Only for the Christian,because we died on the cross too,where the law put to death,through his body.The world did not.This also ended hostiltiy that the law created between Jew and gentile.

Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

It was done in his body on the cross for the Christian.

Eph 2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

Paul said he died to the law..in the body,when he became a Chrisitian.


Romans 7:4
So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to.

He said in other passages he died to it(Gal 2:19),was released from it(Rom 7:6),not under it etc.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.


The often quoted Romans 3:31,by those who want to keep the law active,forget something.The placement of the verse,came after 3 chapters of talking about the unsaved,and there is a list.

Romans 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless

Here in 1 Tim 1,we see the law is not for the righteous,but for those on the list,that is just like Romans 1.

1 Tim 1:9-10 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine

So Romans 3:31 says unsaved get a conscience of sins through the law, and that should lead them to Christ,then they die to the law,and sin.Then they are not under law,they are released or whatever phrase you wish to use.But that is how it is upheld,as a tutor.That is what scripture calls it.It was temporary.It says 3 times in Gal 3,UNTIL…(the until came)


Romans 3:31
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.(that’s all,a knowledge,not a lifelong marriage,as per Rom 7:4)

Frogster.

 

[dies-l]

I agree. I would be interested to see if anyone disagrees with you on that point.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Why does it matter to you whether the Law was abolished or not ? How does the Law existing nullify anything that Jesus did ?

It doesn't matter to me . The Law wasn't written to me - it was written to Israelites who didn't want to see the Lord face-to-face on the mountain when given the opportunity . It was written to them to give to their descendants . It was given to them to obey in the land to be given to them as a community . That has nothing to do with me . Does any of that have anything to do with you ?

So , let it exist . We both know that christian groups have more laws than you can shake a stick at for requirements that make a lot less sense than the Law .

 

[Frogster]

Why does it matter to you whether the Law was abolished or not ? How does the Law existing nullify anything that Jesus did ?

It doesn't matter to me . The Law wasn't written to me - it was written to Israelites who didn't want to see the Lord face-to-face on the mountain when given the opportunity . It was written to them to give to their descendants . It was given to them to obey in the land to be given to them as a community . That has nothing to do with me . Does any of that have anything to do with you ?

So , let it exist . We both know that christian groups have more laws than you can shake a stick at for requirements that make a lot less sense than the Law .

Because the law,would do the same thing in your human nature,as a Jewish person.Empower sin.

Whether you knew it or not,you were under it,as judged by it.Every mouth was the Jew,and the whole world,meant Gentiles too.This came after 3 chapters,of showing how both,were sinners,because of the law,and that is how God would judge the world.


Romans 3:5-6 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) 6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

The scripture,was the law

Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

And the next verse shows where they were prisoners..

Gal 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed

 

[Frogster]

I agree. I would be interested to see if anyone disagrees with you on that point.

Me too.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Because the law,would do the same thing in your human nature,as a Jewish person.Empower sin.

Whether you knew it or not,you were under it,as judged by it.Every mouth was the Jew,and the whole world,meant Gentiles too.This came after 3 chapters,of showing how both,were sinners,because of the law,and that is how God would judge the world.


Romans 3:5-6 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) 6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

The scripture,was the law

Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

I was never under the Law - I am a Gentile .

Today , the Scriptures are the Law for those that have "Scriptural Authority" . Please , talk to them about it . They treat the "gospels" and "epistles" as if they are the Law for christians . They have more problems than the SDA's and Messianics .

Well , if the Law was that huge in your life , then I can understand why you need all of that stuff to pretend that it no longer exists .

I don't have to give the Law any authority over my past so that I have to make all sorts of excuses why it is no longer my authority . I need no excuses because it was never an authority over me .

 

[Frogster]

I was never under the Law - I am a Gentile .

Today , the Scriptures are the Law for those that have "Scriptural Authority" . Please , talk to them about it . They treat the "gospels" and "epistles" as if they are the Law for christians . They have more problems than the SDA's and Messianics .

Well , if the Law was that huge in your life , then I can understand why you need all of that stuff to pretend that it no longer exists .

I don't have to give the Law any authority over my past so that I have to make all sorts of excuses why it is no longer my authority . I need no excuses because it was never an authority over me .

I understand what your saying,but it is quite clear,we were under it,whether we knew it or not.


Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

That to me,is another good reason that we are under faith now.

 

[New_Wineskin]

If it makes you sleep better at night ... I'll let that alone .

Now , what are you ging to do with the protestant groups that cry "Scriptural Authority" ? Can we have the same enthusiasm against them . They are far worse . As Paul wrote , if there were any set of laws to bring righteousness , it would be the Law . But , they use Paul and others to use as a new Law for righteousness .

 

[Tzaousios]

Today , the Scriptures are the Law for those that have "Scriptural Authority" . Please , talk to them about it . They treat the "gospels" and "epistles" as if they are the Law for christians . They have more problems than the SDA's and Messianics .

It seems as though you have some emotional baggage concerning inerrantist interpretation or something. Why shouldn't Scripture be an authority or law of sorts for Christians?

 

[Frogster]

If it makes you sleep better at night ... I'll let that alone .

Now , what are you ging to do with the protestant groups that cry "Scriptural Authority" ? Can we have the same enthusiasm against them . They are far worse . As Paul wrote , if there were any set of laws to bring righteousness , it would be the Law . But , they use Paul and others to use as a new Law for righteousness .

Yes the clear truth of scripture,makes me sleep like a baby.

If you wish to start a thread,about your other issue,please feel free to do so.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Yes the clear truth of scripture,makes me sleep like a baby.

If you wish to start a thread,about your other issue,please feel free to do so.

It's the same issue . Just what I thought ... you're one of them - trade in the Law for another Law .

BTW ... Paul writes to the Galatians that they were *not* under the Law and asks why they went under the Law after knowing Christ - not under the Law before and then returning .


Oh .. "clear truth of scripture" .. ? that made me gag .

 

[Frogster]

It seems as though you have some emotional baggage concerning inerrantist interpretation or something. Why shouldn't Scripture be an authority or law of sorts for Christians?

I understand what he is saying.The letters kills.But the authority of the truth of scripture,stands,like you said.

 

[Frogster]

It's the same issue . Just what I thought ... you're one of them - trade in the Law for another Law .

BTW ... Paul writes to the Galatians that they were *not* under the Law and asks why they went under the Law after knowing Christ - not under the Law before and then returning .


Oh .. "clear truth of scripture" .. ? that made me gag .

And I have posted ample scripture,written by the same man,that says YOU were under it.

 

[Frogster]

It doesn't seem that way to you at all . How about telling the truth once in your life ? I don't need your god of paper .

Jesus and Paul,stood on the paper,and said others were wrong.Hint hint..

 

[Tzaousios]

It doesn't seem that way to you at all . How about telling the truth once in your life ? I don't need your god of paper .

Um, alright? How did you get inside my head to be able to tell my intent and motive?

Instead of throwing out the pithy one-liners and cryptic responses, why don't you tell us what you think Scripture is for?

 

[Frogster]

I am hoping that newwine,would post scripture,since he does not agree with the op.

Rather than get into a mud fight.

Scripture?

 

[Tzaousios]

I understand what he is saying.The letters kills.But the authority of the truth of scripture,stands,like you said.

Indeed, and Scripture tells us exactly what the purpose of the Law is for both non-believers and Christians. As you pointed out on the first page:

Romans 3:19-20

19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Also, Paul says in Galatians:

Galatians 3:24

24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLOJ subscribes

 

[dies-l]

I would ask, however, Frogster, when you say that we are under "faith" as opposed to the law, what do you mean by "faith". In your opinion, does faith imply any particular sort of action or conduct one our part?

 

[Frogster]

Indeed, and Scripture tells us exactly what the purpose of the Law is for both non-believers and Christians. As you pointed out on the first page:



Also, Paul says in Galatians:

Amen.Also Paul says,the law was added,to increase the trespass.That would also confirm Rom 3:31..to make us see why we needed a saviour.

LLOJ subscribes