Adam and Eve

[AV1611VET]

For you, 'embedded age' has nothing to do with real age...

Excuse me --- yes, it does have to do with real age.

Ask any atheist who has known me for awhile.

I can tell you w/o even looking --- since I've said it so many times --- that it is definition #4 on answers.com.

I have a thread on this, but I'll ask it here, instead of QV'ing it:

Can God create an object --- tomorrow --- such that it falls apart with age the next day?

 

[Mike Elphick]

For you, 'embedded age' has nothing to do with real age...

Excuse me --- yes, it does have to do with real age.

Ask any atheist who has known me for awhile.

I can tell you w/o even looking --- since I've said it so many times --- that it is definition #4 on answers.com.

You only need to "know" someone for awhile to understand what they mean when they are using unique and personal definitions. I can't find 'embedded age' anywhere on answers.com. Age is measured in units of time, anything from the smallest fraction of a nanosecond up to billions of years and everything in between. As I said, age has little to do with appearance, but everything to do with the passage of time.

I have a thread on this, but I'll ask it here, instead of QV'ing it:
Can God create an object --- tomorrow --- such that it falls apart with age the next day?

If you say so, but it's age on disintegration will be one day, no longer.

 

[AV1611VET]

You only need to "know" someone for awhile to understand what they mean when they are using unique and personal definitions.

I must be an exception to your rule then.

I can't find 'embedded age' anywhere on answers.com.

"Age" --- not "embedded age":

age:

1. The length of time that one has existed; duration of life: 23 years of age.
2. The time of life when a person becomes qualified to assume certain civil and personal rights and responsibilities, usually at 18 or 21 years; legal age: under age; of age.
3. One of the stages of life: the age of adolescence; at an awkward age.
4. The state of being old; old age: hair white with age.

That 'state of being old' was embedded into creation.

Age is measured in units of time, anything from the smallest fraction of a nanosecond up to billions of years and everything in between.

Yes, and 4.7 billion of those units of time were embedded into the earth.

As I said, age has little to do with appearance, but everything to do with the passage of time.

Not in definition #4.

If you say so, but it's age on disintegration will be one day, no longer.

I agree.

The object would be 1 day old existentially; and n-years old physically.

 

[BananaSlug]

We've pointed out AV's flawed logic many times (I dedicated a whole thread to debunking it), yet he still continues to use it. Of course he also thinks that Pluto, thalidomide, and phlogiston are useful arguments against science as well...

 

[Mike Elphick]

The state of being old...

The state of being old means an object has existed for a relatively long time, as opposed to the state of being young when the object will have existed for a shorter time.

...old age

Using age to define age is a circular definition isn't it?

...hair white with age.

This is an example of the word's usage, given by answers.com in italics. It's not part of the definition.

So all that's left for definition #4 is "The state of being old".

The object would be 1 day old existentially; and n-years old physically.

The physical age is again measured in units of time and couldn't be longer than one day. If by existential (we've got to get our definitions right ) you mean "of, relating to, or dealing with existence" then the physical age will correspond to the existential age.

Where did you get the "n-years old" from?

 

[BananaSlug]

We've been down this road many times Mike. Here is a 44 page thread based around AV's pet idea:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7347875/

It's both funny and sad at the same time.

 

[AV1611VET]

The state of being old means an object has existed for a relatively long time, as opposed to the state of being young when the object will have existed for a shorter time.

Are we going to go in circles on this?

Using age to define age is a circular definition isn't it?

I define 'embedded age' as 'maturity without history.'

The physical age is again measured in units of time and couldn't be longer than one day. If by existential (we've got to get our definitions right ) you mean "of, relating to, or dealing with existence" then the physical age will correspond to the existential age.

By 'existential age', I mean the amount of time the object has been in existence --- actually has a history.

The earth is 6100 years old existentially --- it has only gone around the sun 6100 times.

But it is 4.57 billion years old physically.

Look at it this way, I am 55 years old physically, but I am made up of energy/atoms that have been here for 6100 years.

Every single atom in my body is 6100 years old, but I'm only 55.

Where did you get the "n-years old" from?

I used "n" so someone wouldn't get cute and come back with, "An object made tomorrow with 100 years of age would not fall apart with age the next day."

 

[BananaSlug]

We have history...

 

[AV1611VET]

We have history...

Not in Genesis 1, you don't.

Again, Embedded Age is 'maturity without history.'

Here's the original thread: 1.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old...

 

[BananaSlug]

Not in Genesis 1, you don't.

Again, Embedded Age is 'maturity without history.'

Here's the original thread: 1.

You have yet to explain why we have all of these fossils in places where they shouldn't be.

Ex:
The earth is 4.5 billion years physically but only 6100 existential years.
The is no history past 6100 years.
We have fossils in rock with 250 million years of physical age.
^Something is wrong...

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, here we go again.

You have yet to explain why we have all of these fossils in places where they shouldn't be.

Show me these fossils in Genesis 1.

 

[Split Rock]

According to evolution, the first man on the planet had to have a navel --- no ifs, ands, or buttons about it.

But according to Genesis 1, the first man on the planet did not require one; and, in fact, sound doctrine teaches he did not.

Wow, you are really stretching "sound doctrine" now... aren't you? Scripture seems to imply there wasn't much physically different between Adam and people today... where do you get a naveless Adam from scripture??

 

[Split Rock]

No misunderstanding, my friend.

Omphalos = navel

y-Adam had a navel

y-Adam = Omphalos

You need to realize that Omphalism necessitates a false history.

Evolution, from the perspective of YEC and Embedded Age = false history.

The evolution of man is, by YEC and "Embedded Age" theology, false history by definition, not because of Omphalos.

 

[Mike Elphick]

I define 'embedded age' as 'maturity without history.

Ok.

Maturity is a measure of the trend in a process to it becoming fully developed.

History is a set of records, taken at intervals, that indicate the state of a continuing process.

Substituting:-

"Embedded age is a process that's tending towards full development without information being available about the state of the process at previous points in time."

Happy with that? Then absence of history does not necessarily mean that a process didn't develop at a normal rate during maturation, because absence of history basically means that no recordings are available to indicate the state and rate of change of the process at any given point in time.

So 'maturity without history' does not have the meaning you think it has.

 

[AV1611VET]

So 'maturity without history' does not have the meaning you think it has.

That's it, Mike --- play with the definition until you don't understand it ---

If you read my thread, you'll see it's a one-time act that only God can perform.

 

[Split Rock]

We've pointed out AV's flawed logic many times (I dedicated a whole thread to debunking it), yet he still continues to use it. Of course he also thinks that Pluto, thalidomide, and phlogiston are useful arguments against science as well...

Not in Genesis 1, you don't.

Again, Embedded Age is 'maturity without history.'

Here's the original thread: 1.

Well, here we go again.Show me these fossils in Genesis 1.

There is only one way a smart guy like you could be so obtuse. You are doing it on purpose as some kind of psychological shield against reality.

1. We are talking about fossils in Today's Real World, not what is described in Genesis.

2. We are talking about the history in Today's Geological Column, not what history is described in Genesis.

3. Your Embedded Age Model makes Predictions, whether you like it or not. One prediction is that we will not find any History older than 6,000 years. We DO find such History. Not only fossil plants in coal formations, but ancient impact craters, sedimentary rock with fossils, chalk that was formed from microorganisms in calm waters over long periods of time, ice cores gooing back hundreds of thousands of years with air bubbles in them from ancient atmospheres, etc, etc. It is all there for even a blind man to see. Your model is Falsified. Keep Looking for another!

 

[Cabal]

That's it, Mike --- play with the definition until you don't understand it ---

*opens box*

Ahh, my brand new irony mete-

BOOM

 

[Split Rock]

That's it, Mike --- play with the definition until you don't understand it ---

That's quite an accusation coming from the guy that plays with definitions like Religion, Faith, Creationist, Atheism, etc., all so no one can understand the definitions anymore. Than you declare victory.

 

[laconicstudent]

Well, here we go again.Show me these fossils in Genesis 1.

Are you seriously stating that if the fossils don't exist in the Bible, they don't exist in reality?

Why should God have mentioned fossils? He does not care about increasing our scientific knowledge, therefore DNA and fossils are not mentioned, science is something he allows us to find for ourselves.


This red herring in which you demand to be shown fossils in Genesis is completely irrelevant to anything anyone else is saying. It is really quite annoying.

 

[pgp_protector]

*opens box*

Ahh, my brand new irony mete-

BOOM

Someone didn't get it calibrated properly