New Church

[jad152]

I was invited to church by an elderly lady that I knew through a friend which I find finding interesting. I am currently doing my own research to get some more information about them.

As you might be aware that I no longer trust the SDA organisation and I find it very difficult to pretend.

The church is called Church of God and Saints of Christ

and I'm also investigating this other church
Church of God international

If you know them and have any further information to provide about them please send me the link .

What do you think about this church?

Thanks

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I was invited to church by an elderly lady that I knew through a friend which I find finding interesting. I am currently doing my own research to get some more information about them.

As you might be aware that I no longer trust the SDA organisation and I find it very difficult to pretend.

The church is called Church of God and Saints of Christ

and I'm also investigating this other church
Church of God international

If you know them and have any further information to provide about them please send me the link .

What do you think about this church?
chruch of god international is and Armstrong chruch i believe

 

[OldStudent]

I have been associated with the SDA church for most of 60 years. I avoid being a good "company" man in taking everything said by the church or done by its personell as just right.

I suggest you be careful of the idea of leaving the church because you distrust the organization. You will have to go a long ways to find ANY church or group that does not have its wonderful plains and gopher holes - you just haven't stepped in any holes yet in the others you are looking at. Until the final plagues begin and angels finish sorting the wheat and tares we will have to deal with Satan's infiltrations and the holes they make in the ranks of the church.

Consider Jesus at just one point for a moment. As I counted the days this incident happened about Tuesday - Friday was the Crucifixion. Jesus and His group quietly sauntered into a shady place in the outer court of the temple where they could observe the treasury receptical. A line of people was filing past a treasury box leaving their offerings to God. Suddenly Jesus sat up. Something had caught His interest. His disciples noticed and followed His gaze in some disbelief. He was watching a poor widow lady. She dropped in two mites - in value about like we would leave in that penny dish by the cash register. In one context a fitting response of Jesus would be, "Poor woman, she just gave her life savings to this sicko church!" But His response was, "Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living" Mark 12:42, 43. She was greatly blessed by Jesus for having done so! Yet that treasury was connected to a seriously corrupt organization what was plotting to murder God and would succeed in just three days! That organization was still God's appointed agency in the world. Christ, though sorely tried by it, still honored it as such. While its probation was closing - it wasn't closed yet.

Yes, we can find a lot of problems in our church but its probation isn't closed. I suggest you review its place in time, in history, in prophecy, in evidence of the explicit leading of God. I suggest you look at its doctrinal positions, while presented more as science than as description helping us see how God is love, I suspect you will come away seeing that table is really second to none. True to the description of Laodicea our implimentation of it generally poor. But we are asked to overcome. There is nothing after Laodicea. While the other churches receive gifts, this one takes the plum on two counts: 1) "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent" Rev 3:19. While this church receives a stiff rebuke, none hear point blank, "As many as I love..." 2) "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne" Rev 3:20, 21. No other church is given such intimacy with God.

You may be saying, "Whoa, are you saying the SDA church is Laodicea?" While it has been a while since I have looked at the paper where I investigated this, the observation then made was that, in a prophetic application, Laodicea is within the SDA church while there is secondary application outside the bounds of the SDA church. So if you choose to leave the church, please, investigate carefully what you may be leaving!

So much more to be said. Perhaps in due time.

 

[Avonia]

What do you think about this church?

What are you looking for? What’s important to you? What would you like to contribute? What would you like to receive?

Instead of asking other people about the churches you are exploring, check them out. It’s clear that you have a sense that the SDA church is not the right one for you. So, stay with your “sense" when exploring other communities.

Also, you might entertain the idea that it’s not an all or nothing choice. Although I am an active member of the Seventh-day Adventist church, most of my “spiritual circles” have nothing to do with the SDA church. And many of them have nothing to do with Christianity. Each provides meaning in a valuable way – and no one eclipses the other. They are complementary.

Ultimately, it’s not the corporation that makes the biggest difference. It’s you and your relationship to the people around you.

Best wishes on your quest!

 

[Avonia]

I suggest you review its place in time, in history, in prophecy, in evidence of the explicit leading of God.

Although I understand this perception and its importance to you, I see no evidence that Adventists have more "explicit leading" than any other humans.

I do see evidence that we are all surrounded by Grace.

I suspect the highest calling for a Seventh-day Adventist is to be fully committed to the church - and fully detached regarding its survival.

Said another way, I'm doing everything I can to help the Seventh-day Adventist church thrive - and I do not care whether it survives.

Engaged Detachment.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I suggest you be careful of the idea of leaving the church because you distrust the organization.

When a person invites someone to "be careful," they are suggesting that there is some risk associated with the course they are considering. In your mind, what are the potential down sides involved in exploring opportunities for worship and fellowship outside of the SDA denomination?

You will have to go a long ways to find ANY church or group that does not have its wonderful plains and gopher holes - you just haven't stepped in any holes yet in the others you are looking at.

Although it's true that all churches have problems, I wonder why we would advocate that a person stick with one vs. another. If all have problems, then our friend JAD could worship among any group of believers--correct?

While its probation was closing - it wasn't closed yet. Yes, we can find a lot of problems in our church but its probation isn't closed.

SDAism has a probation period? If it reaches the end of that period, what then? Do other denominations have a probationary period or is this privilege associated soley with the SDA denomination?

I suggest you review its place in time, in history, in prophecy, in evidence of the explicit leading of God.

Is the explicit leading of God limited to SDAism?

I suggest you look at its doctrinal positions, while presented more as science than as description helping us see how God is love, I suspect you will come away seeing that table is really second to none.

Are there any other denominations that are second to none, or is it solely SDAism that deserves this title?

While the other churches receive gifts, this one takes the plum on two counts: 1) "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent" Rev 3:19. While this church receives a stiff rebuke, none hear point blank, "As many as I love..." 2) "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne" Rev 3:20, 21. No other church is given such intimacy with God.

Seriously? Only SDAism has such intimacy with God? Now that is quite a claim, indeed. Is it your position that the teachings of SDAism represent the teachings of the remnant church?

So if you choose to leave the church, please, investigate carefully what you may be leaving!

If JAD makes the wrong decision on this subject, what will befall him?

BFA

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Church of God International's website:
Church Of God International - Home

I might have gone to this church myself, but they have no congregations in the Northwest.

 

[OldStudent]

When a person invites someone to "be careful," they are suggesting that there is some risk associated with the course they are considering. In your mind, what are the potential down sides involved in exploring opportunities for worship and fellowship outside of the SDA denomination?
BFA

When Martin Luther discovered the far reaching ramifications of "the just shall live by faith alone," he had no idea where it would lead him. But he had to follow where it lead. It was his hope that as he presented the hope, peace, and victory that followed in its wake that the church (the Church of Rome to which he had dedicated his life service) would embrace the truth and a wonderful reformation. But instead the flames of anathama rained down on his head. He was greatly disappointed that his work resulted in such a noisy revolt. An explosion of understanding of truths found in God's Word under His guidance was lit up in the world. Different men and women discovered and focused on different aspects of newly discovered faith. Groups, churches, and denominations tended to form around these people. God needed this broad understanding of the Gospel as Jesus' time the Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary was running down. He was getting ready for the wonderful transition into the work of the Most Holy place.
At the dawn of the 19th century the Holy Spirit drew the minds of people all over the world to a fascination with and discoveries from the books of Daniel and Revelation. People looked in great anticipation for the return of Jesus. It turns out that the great many of them were taking out "fire insurance," not an abiding faith in Jesus. The Great Disappointment quickly made visible the dicotomy. Those who sincerely persisted in their faith of the Lord's return were generally ostracised and often thrown out their churches - as the Harmon family was. They didn't want to be difficult - they were just following where the leading of God was taking them. These were continuing in Luther's footsteps as God continued to advance the Reformation.
In this little group of survivors of the Great Disappointment God focused the investment of "Present Truth(s)" - the Sabbath, the Sanctuary, the Great Controversy, the extension of Luther's discovery up to Christ Our Righteousness, to just begin the list. In short, within no other church on earth can be found the concentration of understanding of the Gospel as can be found within the borders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
While I am not a professional gospel worker I have some experience conversing with non-SDAs. I took a couple of years of theology classes in a Nazarene college. Things I took for granted aren't even in their vocabulary!
No other church on earth has brought the Reformation to the place found in the SDA church. Now there's an audacious statement! which I will follow with this - It is also a nuclear focus of Satan's interest and whatever powers he has. So are there problems with the church? Wow, yes. Satan has laced it with his tares - as he had done in heaven as well. When Jesus lived on earth He remained faithful to the Divinely ordained church/nation of His time - one that sought to kill God! One whose probation for service was closing but not yet closed.
Satan doesn't care how much we know. He does care what we DO with it. If we, like Saul, use our defense of the "faith" to kill by how we present the doctrines - he is well content. BUT if we take those same doctrines and turn them to enlarge our faith and understanding in God as did Paul (same person but of different mind) then Satan gets real heartburn and God has great joy.
So are there "potential down sides in exploring opportunities for worship and fellowship outside of the SDA denomination?" I guess it depends on why. If it results in discovering what they are missing it might be OK. I have to ask why so "down size?" What could be the risk of stepping away from where God has focused the advancement of His work of reformation? If the experience "makes me feel good," is that enough or could that be part of the risk? Yes, as I have looked at the matter there is risk worthy of expressing caution. Review the parables of Matthew 25. Some of the parables of Matthew 13 have some value here as well.

Does God work with those in other denominations? I remember sitting in Chapel at the Nazarene College and listenting in shock as stories of God's leading and blessing in THEIR ministries were being told. Yes, He can and does bring people to saving faith and service in other denominations - denominations of Christianity. But, again, as I have looked around, the SDA church is the favored daughter of faith.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

In short, within no other church on earth can be found the concentration of understanding of the Gospel as can be found within the borders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Is it true that there are none who understand?

Among those who do not understand, is it your position that there are those who understand even less than others?

No other church on earth has brought the Reformation to the place found in the SDA church.

When the SDA denomination asserts that the sabbath will be the great final test that will illuminate who is of God and who is not of God, has the SDA denomination advanced the reformation or returned us to the same theology that was in need of reform?

When the SDA denomination defines the seal of God as the sabbath (thereby replacing the Holy Spirit with the sabbath), has the SDA denomination advanced the reformation?

When the SDA denomination connects the sabbath with the mark of the beast (at least for those living immediately prior to Christ's second coming), is the SDA denomination more in line with Luther or more in line with the Catholic church?

So are there problems with the church? Wow, yes.

With its teachings? Yes. Sadly, error is mixed with truth in all aspects of Christianity.

Satan has laced it with his tares - as he had done in heaven as well. When Jesus lived on earth He remained faithful to the Divinely ordained church/nation of His time - one that sought to kill God! One whose probation for service was closing but not yet closed.

Since we're on the subject, when the SDA denomination teaches that those living after the close of probation will stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator, has the SDA denomination carried the torch of the reformation or has it sent us backward by about 1,000 years?

If we, like Saul, use our defense of the "faith" to kill by how we present the doctrines - he is well content.

Do we kill (or at least harm) when we imply that others will be in danger if they choose to worship with the wrong group of people? Was that Jesus' message?

So are there "potential down sides in exploring opportunities for worship and fellowship outside of the SDA denomination?" I guess it depends on why. If it results in discovering what they are missing it might be OK. I have to ask why so "down size?" What could be the risk of stepping away from where God has focused the advancement of His work of reformation?

In order for this question to be valid, wouldn't we need to see evidence that the SDA denomination is the primary denomination in which the reformation is advanced? What does the evidence demonstrate?

If the experience "makes me feel good," is that enough or could that be part of the risk? Yes, as I have looked at the matter there is risk worthy of expressing caution.

Q: Risk of what?

Anyone who has left the SDA denomination for doctrinal reasons will confirm that they did not do it because it felt good (and that the standard response from SDAs after leaving often did not feel so good).

Does God work with those in other denominations? I remember sitting in Chapel at the Nazarene College and listenting in shock as stories of God's leading and blessing in THEIR ministries were being told. Yes, He can and does bring people to saving faith and service in other denominations - denominations of Christianity. But, again, as I have looked around, the SDA church is the favored daughter of faith.

Favored daughter of faith? I praise God that our salvation is not dependent on getting the right answers on a theology exam. If it were, neither of us would have any hope.


We've been dancing around an important question, but the fault is mine because I have not clearly articulated it. I'd like to correct that now.

Q: Is an individual eligible for salvation and Heaven if all of the following are true:
(1) The individual was once a member of the SDA denomination; and
(2) The individual was once convicted of the sabbath and other SDA doctrines; and
(3) The individual becomes convicted that his prior understanding is not in line with Scripture; and
(4) The individual makes the decision to leave the SDA denomination; and
(5) The individual never ultimately returns to the sabbath or to membership in the SDA denomination; and
(6) The individual is alive when Jesus returns?
​

I welcome your continued candor.

BFA

 

[Avonia]

BFA, you are a trip. Draw a larger ring and OldStudent and you have nearly identical world views.

But let's start by drawing it a little larger:

Do you think there's something "better" about being a Christian than a Buddhist?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA, you are a trip.

Thanks.

Draw a larger ring and OldStudent and you have nearly identical world views.

Perhaps so. I suppose I won't really know whether that is true unless I ask questions to better understand his position. That's what I've done. I look forward to his reply.BFA

 

[OldStudent]

I rarely have opportunity to bounce my discoveries and observations off other people. I am glad you have taken me on and are exposing me to other aspects of what I think and how I express things but it's getting rather complex. I need to digest some things then arrive at an appropriate format for responses - a long "conversational " post or make a separate post for each question you raise. Can we or do we need to keep it on the theme of the original post? In a sense the original post is broad enough to support discussion of the role of "organized" or "identifiable" bodies of believers. I hope that between us and overseeing moderators we can make this work. JAD is new and I hope not t-o-o put off by what we are getting into.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I rarely have opportunity to bounce my discoveries and observations off other people. I am glad you have taken me on and are exposing me to other aspects of what I think and how I express things but it's getting rather complex. I need to digest some things then arrive at an appropriate format for responses - a long "conversational " post or make a separate post for each question you raise. Can we or do we need to keep it on the theme of the original post? In a sense the original post is broad enough to support discussion of the role of "organized" or "identifiable" bodies of believers. I hope that between us and overseeing moderators we can make this work. JAD is new and I hope not t-o-o put off by what we are getting into.

I'm not sure whether JAD is still with us. Perhaps he is still lurking out there.If you'd prefer to move this to a new thread, I'm happy to do that. I certainly don't want to cause any problems relating to consistency with the topic of this thread.Take your time. I'm here to discuss and will be here as you have time to respond. I appreciate your time in reading and responding to my posts and for the dialogue that we've enjoyed thus far.God bless,BFA