I have seen a number of threads that have recently been started that ask, "Is it ethical to be homosexual and Christian", or "Should sexually active unmarried heterosexuals be expelled from the church", etc.
I respect the right of a congregation to say, "This is what we believe." They may or may not believe that homosexuality is a sin. Indeed, biblical scholars who study the scripture as part of their career are even split. Premarital sex is quite prevalent, and a reality, especially since most people are waiting to get married around their late 20s, if not later. However, each church most take a stand on what they believe.
So, this OP has nothing to do with "Is homosexuality a sin" or "can a sexually active heterosexual call themselves a Christian/belong to a church."
Rather, my point is, is it ethical for any man to judge the heart of another, the relationship of another, especially those they barely know over the internet, and then state "You are not a Christian."
A Christian in the most basic form of the definition, is one who serves God, believes Jesus to be the Saviour and God's son, and who loves God with all his heart, soul, and mind, and loves his neighbour as himself.
Unfortunately, many people have added their own criteria. I have been told on countless occasions that "a Gay Christian is an oxymoron, like Jumbo Shrimp."
If this were true, then all heterosexuals would be Christian. However, simply being heterosexual does not make you Christian, believe in Christ, or act Christ-like. Those who are Christian, heterosexual, and married usually marry out of love for each other, rather than obedience to any God. They marry before God, but it is more of a commitment to one another, than being submissive to God. They can't imagine living without one another, and so, want to marry. They want to share their vows in front of God and others so that everyone will help them keep those vows, and share the joy of their union with their loved ones.
Heterosexual marriages can between two atheists, two Hindus, or two Muslims. It's far more about love and sexual/romantic attraction than anything else. It isn't a statement of their faith, but of their love for one another.
When we start down a road of "one can't be X and be Christian", we open a can of worms.
Does one stop being Christian every time he sins, and must repent, ask forgiveness of the person and pay some kind of pennence, beg God for forgiveness, and ask Jesus to once again come into his heart?
Does one stop being Christian if they say Oh My G**? It is actively taking G-d's name in vain. Do they stop becoming Christian when they say, "Jesus Christ!" in frustration, and taking the Lord's name in vain? Do we stop being Christian if we tell a lie? The average person lies 7 times an hour. It is a commandment, so are we constantly unconverting?
We all sin, no matter how hard we try. I hear people defend themselves, saying, "Yeah, but I'm not trying to." Does it matter? If I lie 7 times an hour, unconsciously, or am trying not to, but still lie, and sin, why is that any more forgivable than one who tells a lie to deceive? The one who "accidentally lies" is usually doing it:
to look good in front of others
to impress others
to get a job
to avoid punishment and responsibility
to avoid talking to someone on the phone
to not hurt someone's feelings
to not tell our parents what we really did last weekend at college,etc.
These aren't "accidents." They are choices. We make them, and we deceive, but then forgive ourselves, saying, "Everyone does it" to make it not bad, or "I had to bend the truth", or "I don't want people to know bad things about me."
We sin daily. We choose to. We choose to occasionally say something intended to humiliate or harm another. We choose not to help someone. We choose to seek revenge, rather than forgive. However, we also choose to forgive someone who wronged us. We choose to help others for its own sake. We choose to act in love as well. Each day, each moment, we choose, and we evolve, or regress.
God offers us the exciting reality of endless possibility each day, and we only need to choose a path, and act in love every moment, have love in every thought, every word interacted, and every action. We draw from God's love, and endless source that knows no bounds.
However, can we actively sin and be Christian? Of course. We all do.
1 Corinthians 6 says
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Does the church seem as concerned with gossips as with homosexuality? Not that I have seen. The bible is. When is the last time you heard someone accused of not being a Christian because he wanted what someone else had? When was the last time you heard someone told they couldn't get drunk and be a Christian?
When I read this passage, there is something that is very clear. It's not about whether you "get into heaven." The Kingdom is within us. If you are committing adultery, you are cheating on your spouse, but also lying to them, and once found out, creating strife, heartache, and mistrust between you. You are not loving your spouse as yourself, and if you aren't loving "the least of these", you aren't loving Christ.
When you slander others, or gossip, the point is to talk about others is a bad light for entertainment, at the cost of the other's reputation, the cost of rumors that may not be true, the cost of being treated disrespectfully as a sign of condemnation and haughty superiority.
And so, you are slandering Christ.
If you are stealing, you are stealing from Christ.
If you value money over your faith, you are worshipping money and yourself, not God.
Is such a person "a Christian"? If they say they are, then yes, they are. They need Christ. His love will change them. No one "earns" the right to be a Child of God. It is only through God's grace, and in return, he simply asks that you love others in grace and mercy, not demand them to earn your love.
The person may not be the best Christian, but are you? Am I? I'm a better Christian today than I was even 5 years ago. I'm kinder. I'm more forgiving of myself, finally, and so, more forgiving of others. I see the God in others, rather than seeing the faults, as God does with us. And I hope to grow stronger.
But if I have not reached perfection, it is immoral to demand a higher standard of another.
While I don't want to focus too much on homosexuality, I can't compare a loving relationship between two men, to that of rape, adultery, murder, and any of the other "sins" that accusers insist on trying to associate it with.
It isn't harming of another, but is quite supportive. While most of what I hear is about the sexual component, that is such a small part of our relationship, both in importance of why we are together, how we act in love toward one another, why we care for one another, or what we spend our time doing when we are together. It is far more about the company, about his soul, and mine.
So, if it is just an issue of the actual sex act, I don't even sin that often, for what it matters. However, you can't compare our intimacy with that of rape, for example, without being willfully deceitful in pretending not to know the difference between consensual and nonconsensual sex, or the physical harm that is surpassed far deeper in the spiritual and emotional damage done to the victim which lingers for weeks, months, even years after the incident.
But all of this reminds me the most of a really vivid memory I had when I was about 5 years old. I was raised Lutheran, and our neighbours were Catholic. Steve came home from his first Catechism at age 6. (Ours start around 13 or 14).
He said, "You're going to hell!"
I said, "No, I'm not. I'm a Christian."
He said, "No, you aren't. You aren't a Catholic. Only Catholics go to heaven."
I said, "No, they don't."
He said, "Yes, they do. My priest told me. You are going to burn in hell!" he taunted.
Being 5, I suddenly feared that he might be right. A seed of doubt was planted in my childish heart, and I questioned my own salvation. I wondered if Jesus really had heard me and entered my heart, or if I didn't qualify due to a technicality. I sheer panic, screaming and crying, the images of fear, of pitch blackness, of demons, or torture, filled my head as I ran to my mom. I blurted out in between huge sobs, "I don't want to go hell! I don't want to go to hell!" After calming me down, she asked what I was talking about. Then, she assured me that I was, indeed, going to heaven, and once I was ok, she stormed over to the neighbor's, and had a loud discussion with Steve's mom, explaining what had just happened, and that she never wanted to hear that told to her son again.
Should Christians spend time arguing whether another Christian is a "Real Christian (TM)", according to their standards?
I had one poster just say repeatedly, "You are NOT a Christian!" He wasn't trying to show me that homosexuality was a sin, according to him, and edify me in my walk. He was trying to convince me that I was not saved, that I was not actually praying to God, that it is impossible to sin and be Christian (which is absurd, unless all Christians are sinless).
He was trying to get me to agree that I wasn't a Christian, to not pray to God because he said it wasn't the real God, and basically trying not to lead me closer to Christ, but to turn me 180 degrees away from him.
THAT, in my opinion, is NOT a Christian, because rather than trying to lead others closer to Christ, they are actively trying to get the follower to doubt God's mercy and grace, doubt that they are loved by God and that it must be earned, doubt that God listens when we pray, doubt that the path I am on is a path to God at all. He was trying to push me away from God - convince me that I wasn't Christian, and in doing so, try to de-convert me.
That is an enemy of God. However, I kept saying, "And yet, I still am. No matter how many times you say that I am not, I am. No matter how many explanation points you use, I am still a Christian. No matter how many times you claim that God doesn't love me, or I don't love God, God remains steadfastly by my side. And even when I know that I have acted selfishly towards another, God stays beside me, because that is when I need him most, and makes my heart heavy that I know better. And because he doesn't leave when I mess up, I'm not afraid to make a false move, and simply focus on the good, focus on how I can actively love others in thanksgiving, and no longer have to focus on what I should refrain from doing, having no desire to steal/lie/kill/slander/seek revenge, etc."
Does that make me a better Christian? Better than who I was yesterday, but not better than anyone else, Christian or non. I acknowledge that I am a Christian, and I acknowledge that I am a lowly sinner, not deserving of God's love, mercy, and forgiveness, but granted it anyway. In so, I no longer concern myself over who qualifies to be a Christian, or who has earned a seat in the church, but rather, concern myself about my walk, identify myself as a servant for God and man, and become the change I wish to see in the world.
I respect the right of a congregation to say, "This is what we believe." They may or may not believe that homosexuality is a sin. Indeed, biblical scholars who study the scripture as part of their career are even split. Premarital sex is quite prevalent, and a reality, especially since most people are waiting to get married around their late 20s, if not later. However, each church most take a stand on what they believe.
So, this OP has nothing to do with "Is homosexuality a sin" or "can a sexually active heterosexual call themselves a Christian/belong to a church."
Rather, my point is, is it ethical for any man to judge the heart of another, the relationship of another, especially those they barely know over the internet, and then state "You are not a Christian."
A Christian in the most basic form of the definition, is one who serves God, believes Jesus to be the Saviour and God's son, and who loves God with all his heart, soul, and mind, and loves his neighbour as himself.
Unfortunately, many people have added their own criteria. I have been told on countless occasions that "a Gay Christian is an oxymoron, like Jumbo Shrimp."
If this were true, then all heterosexuals would be Christian. However, simply being heterosexual does not make you Christian, believe in Christ, or act Christ-like. Those who are Christian, heterosexual, and married usually marry out of love for each other, rather than obedience to any God. They marry before God, but it is more of a commitment to one another, than being submissive to God. They can't imagine living without one another, and so, want to marry. They want to share their vows in front of God and others so that everyone will help them keep those vows, and share the joy of their union with their loved ones.
Heterosexual marriages can between two atheists, two Hindus, or two Muslims. It's far more about love and sexual/romantic attraction than anything else. It isn't a statement of their faith, but of their love for one another.
When we start down a road of "one can't be X and be Christian", we open a can of worms.
Does one stop being Christian every time he sins, and must repent, ask forgiveness of the person and pay some kind of pennence, beg God for forgiveness, and ask Jesus to once again come into his heart?
Does one stop being Christian if they say Oh My G**? It is actively taking G-d's name in vain. Do they stop becoming Christian when they say, "Jesus Christ!" in frustration, and taking the Lord's name in vain? Do we stop being Christian if we tell a lie? The average person lies 7 times an hour. It is a commandment, so are we constantly unconverting?
We all sin, no matter how hard we try. I hear people defend themselves, saying, "Yeah, but I'm not trying to." Does it matter? If I lie 7 times an hour, unconsciously, or am trying not to, but still lie, and sin, why is that any more forgivable than one who tells a lie to deceive? The one who "accidentally lies" is usually doing it:
to look good in front of others
to impress others
to get a job
to avoid punishment and responsibility
to avoid talking to someone on the phone
to not hurt someone's feelings
to not tell our parents what we really did last weekend at college,etc.
These aren't "accidents." They are choices. We make them, and we deceive, but then forgive ourselves, saying, "Everyone does it" to make it not bad, or "I had to bend the truth", or "I don't want people to know bad things about me."
We sin daily. We choose to. We choose to occasionally say something intended to humiliate or harm another. We choose not to help someone. We choose to seek revenge, rather than forgive. However, we also choose to forgive someone who wronged us. We choose to help others for its own sake. We choose to act in love as well. Each day, each moment, we choose, and we evolve, or regress.
God offers us the exciting reality of endless possibility each day, and we only need to choose a path, and act in love every moment, have love in every thought, every word interacted, and every action. We draw from God's love, and endless source that knows no bounds.
However, can we actively sin and be Christian? Of course. We all do.
1 Corinthians 6 says
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Does the church seem as concerned with gossips as with homosexuality? Not that I have seen. The bible is. When is the last time you heard someone accused of not being a Christian because he wanted what someone else had? When was the last time you heard someone told they couldn't get drunk and be a Christian?
When I read this passage, there is something that is very clear. It's not about whether you "get into heaven." The Kingdom is within us. If you are committing adultery, you are cheating on your spouse, but also lying to them, and once found out, creating strife, heartache, and mistrust between you. You are not loving your spouse as yourself, and if you aren't loving "the least of these", you aren't loving Christ.
When you slander others, or gossip, the point is to talk about others is a bad light for entertainment, at the cost of the other's reputation, the cost of rumors that may not be true, the cost of being treated disrespectfully as a sign of condemnation and haughty superiority.
And so, you are slandering Christ.
If you are stealing, you are stealing from Christ.
If you value money over your faith, you are worshipping money and yourself, not God.
Is such a person "a Christian"? If they say they are, then yes, they are. They need Christ. His love will change them. No one "earns" the right to be a Child of God. It is only through God's grace, and in return, he simply asks that you love others in grace and mercy, not demand them to earn your love.
The person may not be the best Christian, but are you? Am I? I'm a better Christian today than I was even 5 years ago. I'm kinder. I'm more forgiving of myself, finally, and so, more forgiving of others. I see the God in others, rather than seeing the faults, as God does with us. And I hope to grow stronger.
But if I have not reached perfection, it is immoral to demand a higher standard of another.
While I don't want to focus too much on homosexuality, I can't compare a loving relationship between two men, to that of rape, adultery, murder, and any of the other "sins" that accusers insist on trying to associate it with.
It isn't harming of another, but is quite supportive. While most of what I hear is about the sexual component, that is such a small part of our relationship, both in importance of why we are together, how we act in love toward one another, why we care for one another, or what we spend our time doing when we are together. It is far more about the company, about his soul, and mine.
So, if it is just an issue of the actual sex act, I don't even sin that often, for what it matters. However, you can't compare our intimacy with that of rape, for example, without being willfully deceitful in pretending not to know the difference between consensual and nonconsensual sex, or the physical harm that is surpassed far deeper in the spiritual and emotional damage done to the victim which lingers for weeks, months, even years after the incident.
But all of this reminds me the most of a really vivid memory I had when I was about 5 years old. I was raised Lutheran, and our neighbours were Catholic. Steve came home from his first Catechism at age 6. (Ours start around 13 or 14).
He said, "You're going to hell!"
I said, "No, I'm not. I'm a Christian."
He said, "No, you aren't. You aren't a Catholic. Only Catholics go to heaven."
I said, "No, they don't."
He said, "Yes, they do. My priest told me. You are going to burn in hell!" he taunted.
Being 5, I suddenly feared that he might be right. A seed of doubt was planted in my childish heart, and I questioned my own salvation. I wondered if Jesus really had heard me and entered my heart, or if I didn't qualify due to a technicality. I sheer panic, screaming and crying, the images of fear, of pitch blackness, of demons, or torture, filled my head as I ran to my mom. I blurted out in between huge sobs, "I don't want to go hell! I don't want to go to hell!" After calming me down, she asked what I was talking about. Then, she assured me that I was, indeed, going to heaven, and once I was ok, she stormed over to the neighbor's, and had a loud discussion with Steve's mom, explaining what had just happened, and that she never wanted to hear that told to her son again.
Should Christians spend time arguing whether another Christian is a "Real Christian (TM)", according to their standards?
I had one poster just say repeatedly, "You are NOT a Christian!" He wasn't trying to show me that homosexuality was a sin, according to him, and edify me in my walk. He was trying to convince me that I was not saved, that I was not actually praying to God, that it is impossible to sin and be Christian (which is absurd, unless all Christians are sinless).
He was trying to get me to agree that I wasn't a Christian, to not pray to God because he said it wasn't the real God, and basically trying not to lead me closer to Christ, but to turn me 180 degrees away from him.
THAT, in my opinion, is NOT a Christian, because rather than trying to lead others closer to Christ, they are actively trying to get the follower to doubt God's mercy and grace, doubt that they are loved by God and that it must be earned, doubt that God listens when we pray, doubt that the path I am on is a path to God at all. He was trying to push me away from God - convince me that I wasn't Christian, and in doing so, try to de-convert me.
That is an enemy of God. However, I kept saying, "And yet, I still am. No matter how many times you say that I am not, I am. No matter how many explanation points you use, I am still a Christian. No matter how many times you claim that God doesn't love me, or I don't love God, God remains steadfastly by my side. And even when I know that I have acted selfishly towards another, God stays beside me, because that is when I need him most, and makes my heart heavy that I know better. And because he doesn't leave when I mess up, I'm not afraid to make a false move, and simply focus on the good, focus on how I can actively love others in thanksgiving, and no longer have to focus on what I should refrain from doing, having no desire to steal/lie/kill/slander/seek revenge, etc."
Does that make me a better Christian? Better than who I was yesterday, but not better than anyone else, Christian or non. I acknowledge that I am a Christian, and I acknowledge that I am a lowly sinner, not deserving of God's love, mercy, and forgiveness, but granted it anyway. In so, I no longer concern myself over who qualifies to be a Christian, or who has earned a seat in the church, but rather, concern myself about my walk, identify myself as a servant for God and man, and become the change I wish to see in the world.
