Official Call For Papers

[AV1611VET]

So how 'bout it, my fellow Creationists, present the evidence for Creationism science... NOW!

Here ya go:

 

[AV1611VET]

All you'll get is a heap of bible quotes and far-fetched interpretations.

I'll take the Bible quotes.

 

[AV1611VET]

It is impossible to prove something didn't happen...

I wasn't raptured yesterday.

Want proof it didn't happen?

 

[thaumaturgy]

I don't disagree with you, but please, we have a zillion threads for telling Creationists what their problems are. This thread is their one big chance to put forward evidence FOR their claims, so lets let them do that, huh?

Agreed. However I was responding to one of the previous posters whose defense was that Same State Pasters can't really defend things like the Big Bang or Dark Matter. When in fact the real issues around "Same" or "Different" past are far more tellingly important to the Creationist in regards to events occuring much more "recently" shall we say, and almost exclusively in contradiction to the mass of data currently availble from earth's history.

In the case of a DSP defense, of course, the whole thing will devolve down to Dad's usual "Unobserved Past" gambit, as it always does.

This is Philosophy 101, David Hume territory and while it is very interesting it would really help if the Creationists or Different State Pasters ("Pastors?") would clarify not only thier evidence for a DSP, but also I'd be interested in any Creationist who admitted that if it weren't for earth's demonstrable history of deep time, that they would have no reason to even believe in a time in which the laws of physics were somehow "different".

I wish a "fresh voice" (as opposed to dad's bungling of basic philosophy) would show up to defend a different state past.

I also hope that DSP advocates will admit that just telling us how we can't defend our position is not ipso facto a positive defense of their position.

Again, Philosophy 101 stuff.

 

[thaumaturgy]

I wasn't raptured yesterday.

Want proof it didn't happen?

Yes. For all I know you are typing this in Heaven as you sit on the right side of Jesus who sits on the right side of God. Using Jesus' cool new Netbook.

"Cloud Computing" at it's finest.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Just checking in to see if anyone has posted their papers regarding theory of DSP.

Remember, for the moment, we are conceding to you that STR/GTR and QM are all wrong, and this is your chance to show us what you got.

We're waiting.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes. For all I know you are typing this in Heaven as you sit on the right side of Jesus who sits on the right side of God. Using Jesus' cool new Netbook.

If that's the answer that you really want to go with, then I'll go ahead and conclude that it is indeed possible to prove that something didn't happen.

 

[AV1611VET]

Just checking in to see if anyone has posted their papers regarding theory of DSP.

Remember, for the moment, we are conceding to you that STR/GTR and QM are all wrong, and this is your chance to show us what you got.

We're waiting.

Here ya go:

1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 ¶ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 ¶ And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Using science my friend, you know, the kind published in journals?

 

[dad]

Agreed. However I was responding to one of the previous posters whose defense was that Same State Pasters can't really defend things like the Big Bang or Dark Matter. When in fact the real issues around "Same" or "Different" past are far more tellingly important to the Creationist in regards to events occuring much more "recently" shall we say, and almost exclusively in contradiction to the mass of data currently availble from earth's history.

Nothing I see in the bible is in contradiction to history. What is in contradiction to it, is the concept that the spiritual was not then present in the realm of men, as they recorded. Also, the other differences in the laws of the universe of that day, that manifested themselves in things like rapid growth, evolution, and long life spans.

The reason same and different are not a concern for science, is that they built their whole house entirely on the sand of assuming the one state only! They are not aware of, and are unable to deal in anything else. The spiritual, and different state future or past is of no more concern to then, than the space shuttle is to ants, building a nest.

In the case of a DSP defense, of course, the whole thing will devolve down to Dad's usual "Unobserved Past" gambit, as it always does.

Only for physical only by design science, is it unobserved. The observations of many things are in history and the bible.

This is Philosophy 101, David Hume territory and while it is very interesting it would really help if the Creationists or Different State Pasters ("Pastors?") would clarify not only thier evidence for a DSP,

The differences in an eternal spiritual also state from the present are clear. But they are no more science, than a SSP is. To PO science, the past universe fabric is unknown state past. (USP) In short, don't try to make the USP, or SSP, or DSP a science claim. Doing so would result in a false claim, that deals only in an invented state past. (ISP)!

but also I'd be interested in any Creationist who admitted that if it weren't for earth's demonstrable history of deep time, that they would have no reason to even believe in a time in which the laws of physics were somehow "different".

There is no demonstrable history of deep time. The only place it exists is in the hologram of dream state past professors.

I wish a "fresh voice" (as opposed to dad's bungling of basic philosophy) would show up to defend a different state past.

Only 2 wishes left..

I also hope that DSP advocates will admit that just telling us how we can't defend our position is not ipso facto a positive defense of their position.

Again, Philosophy 101 stuff.

Before an ipso facto defense of any kind is needed against a tooth fairy, or a SSP, it needs to be more than ipsy dipsy dream fabric. Before one needs demonstrate a DSP, science needs to be able to deal in some knowledge of what state the future and USP was. Until then, a DSP fits the evidence best, that science does have, and history does offer, and the bible reveals.

 

[StabbingHobo]

Tooth fairy is a positive claim, same state past is not. Since you have some difficulties understading that, I'll move on.

So, tell me, what was the different state like? How did things work before "things got changed"?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Dad, please stay from the false dichotomy, we're not impressed nor swayed by it. It is not good enough to point out why traditional theories are false, unless you have a theory that better explains current observations and data.

Please, use this opportunity (without impugning traditionally accepted science/theories) to bringforth your data to support DSP.

We would love to see what you have, without trying to discredit generally accepted theories. Act as if we know nothing at this point in time, and you are here to present us with your data to support your DSP theory.

 

[Hespera]

Dad, please stay from the false dichotomy, we're not impressed nor swayed by it. It is not good enough to point out why traditional theories are false, unless you have a theory that better explains current observations and data.

Please, use this opportunity (without impugning traditionally accepted science/theories) to bringforth your data to support DSP.

We would love to see what you have, without trying to discredit generally accepted theories. Act as if we know nothing at this point in time, and you are here to present us with your data to support your DSP theory.

It would be more intellecutaler to go stir up a ant hill with a stick Try it!

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

It would be more intellecutaler to go stir up a ant hill with a stick Try it!

Yes, I agree. Myrmacology does indeed teach us alot. In fact, E.O. Wilson wrote a book called "The Creation." The book is in letter format, addressed to a Southern Baptist Preacher, with the intent of pointing out the importance of "god's creation."

But, we digress. BOT, and still waiting.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, I agree. Myrmacology does indeed teach us alot. In fact, E.O. Wilson wrote a book called "The Creation." The book is in letter format, addressed to a Southern Baptist Preacher, with the intent of pointing out the importance of "god's creation."

Be careful --- I once made a reference to interviewing ants ( 332 ), and it was used to try and make me look bad.

(I'm sure you won't have that problem though, as you don't carry a Christian icon.)

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Be careful --- I once made a reference to interviewing ants ( 332 ), and it was used to try and make me look bad.

(I'm sure you won't have that problem though, as you don't carry a Christian icon.)

BTW, still waiting for original papers supporting theory of DSP.

 

[Michael]

Am I thinking of the right "hypothesis"?

Well, not really. While I'm sure that there are folks that subscribe to that idea, most do not. EU/PC theory is probably best explained in Cosmic Plasma by Hannes Alfven. It simply suggests the electromagnetic fields also play a role in events in space, not simply gravity.

 

[Michael]

Yes, I agree. Myrmacology does indeed teach us alot. In fact, E.O. Wilson wrote a book called "The Creation." The book is in letter format, addressed to a Southern Baptist Preacher, with the intent of pointing out the importance of "god's creation."

But, we digress. BOT, and still waiting.

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/Alfven/CosmologyAlfven.pdf

What are you still waiting for exactly? Got a gram of "dark matter"? Care to explain why I should put any "faith" in a dead inflation deity and dark evil energies?

 

[AV1611VET]

BTW, still waiting for original papers supporting theory of DSP.

Why would there be any?

According to science, this would have happened in prehistoric* times, when there was no writing.

Of course, we literal creationists don't believe in the prehistoric times, and we submit Genesis 1 thru 11 as valid written records --- but science denies all that.

* The one invention that separates prehistory from history is writing.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Why would there be any?

According to science, this would have happened in prehistoric* times, when there was no writing.

Of course, we literal creationists don't believe in the prehistoric times, and we submit Genesis 1 thru 11 as valid written records --- but science denies all that.

* The one invention that separates prehistory from history is writing.

Isn't it great that in real science many things related to the PHYSICAL LAWS don't require someone to have "written" the evidence?

That's why science is hard. Sometimes you have to actually examine evidence and you can't just take what some anonymous source writing at an unknown, unverifiable time wrote to tell you what was happening!