This Generation

[Zadok7000]

The scriptures already cited establish both time periods. But which applies to this question? We notice that Jesus did not say that a new generation would not arise before that time, but that this generation would not pass. That sets the time span, not as the time between one generation and the next (roughly 40 years) but as the length of a lifespan (roughly seventy years.)

It seems to me that Jesus was saying that those who saw all these things begin to come to pass would see it all finished. That sets the time span as 70 years, not 40.

But when did it begin? It does not seem unreasonable to count from the time Israel again became a nation. That was in 1948. If and only if these interpretations are correct, it will all be over in 2018, just nine years from now.

I generally agree, but consider this:
1. The Generation of the Fig Tree may not have "begun" until 1967 (when Jerusalem was fully wrested from Muslim control)
2. A generation could be 120 years long (Gen. 6:3, Deut. 34:7)

 

[Zadok7000]

The generation that Jesus was speaking of was the generation that was right in front of Him. It came to pass just as He said it would.

Excuse me, nothing He said would be fulfilled (Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21)has been. He said ALL the signs and events He described would be witnessesed by them. Not "some" or "one". You really have to get off this kick, Jen. You are flat out wrong.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I generally agree, but consider this:
1. The Generation of the Fig Tree may not have "begun" until 1967 (when Jerusalem was fully wrested from Muslim control)
2. A generation could be 120 years long (Gen. 6:3, Deut. 34:7)

Biblically:

Regarding #1:

Isa 66:8Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children.


Regarding #2:

Psa 90:10The length of our days is seventy years-- or eighty, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.


Isa 23:15At that time Tyre will be forgotten for seventy years, the span of a king's life. But at the end of these seventy years, it will happen to Tyre as in the song of the prostitute:

Isa 23:17At the end of seventy years, the Lord will deal with Tyre. She will return to her hire as a prostitute and will ply her trade with all the kingdoms on the face of the earth.

Jer 25:12"But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the Lord, "and will make it desolate forever.

Jer 29:10This is what the Lord says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place.


God moves at the end of seventy years.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Excuse me, nothing He said would be fulfilled (Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21)has been. He said ALL the signs and events He described would be witnessesed by them. Not "some" or "one". You really have to get off this kick, Jen. You are flat out wrong.

I'll talk to God about it again and see what He says.

 

[vinsight4u]

Biblically:
...

Isa 23:15At that time Tyre will be forgotten for seventy years, the span of a king's life. But at the end of these seventy years, it will happen to Tyre as in the song of the prostitute:

Isa 23:17At the end of seventy years, the Lord will deal with Tyre. She will return to her hire as a prostitute and will ply her trade with all the kingdoms on the face of the earth.

Jer 25:12"But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the Lord, "and will make it desolate forever.

Jer 29:10This is what the Lord says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place.


God moves at the end of seventy years.

God will move big time at the end of the 70-yr for a king prophecy. Tyre will be burned. Iraq will get the vials of God's wrath (they are to come on Babylon and those that followed her wicked ways of the beast).

Tyre will be forgotten for 70 years.
This means that God won't take Tyre down for the final time until the requirement of of the 70 years for a king comes to pass first.

Jeremiah 25:11-12 is a prophecy that gives Babylonian king time 70 years. Babylon was taken down by Cyrus the Persian before the Babylonian king time came to pass in full. Babylon's land will provide the ac, and this ac king will rule for the rest of the years that Babylon has to make Jeremiah 25:11-12 come to pass.

 

[Zadok7000]

Biblically:

Relax, it was just food for thought. I said I basically agreed with 1948 and 70 years but we all must be accepting of correction.

 

[Zadok7000]

I'll talk to God about it again and see what He says.

He already told you in plain and simple language, do you have ears to hear?

Matt. 24:33-34
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13:29-30
So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Luke 21:31-32
So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.


"all" = "pas". Greek root word meaning "each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything". Since ALL was NOT fulfilled to that generation 2,000 years ago, "this generation" was NOT there at that time. A child can understand that.

 

[Notrash]

He already told you in plain and simple language, do you have ears to hear?

Matt. 24:33-34
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13:29-30
So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Luke 21:31-32
So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.


"all" = "pas". Greek root word meaning "each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything". Since ALL was NOT fulfilled to that generation 2,000 years ago, "this generation" was NOT there at that time. A child can understand that.

For those reading this: this is important; Your life is Important.

Which of 'all these things" were not done before and during the final end of the old covenant age in the first century AD.??
Here are their fulfillments.
Adam Clarke
Note: I dont' agree with every comment Clarke has on this page, but the fulfillment of the signs is historically and categorically confirmed.

Pestilence, Famine, false prophets in Israel,(as the Holy Spirit was leaving the temple and nation) Signs and wonders, False Christs, The fig AND ALL THE TREES (other nations) pushing their leaves against Rome; etc etc..
All fulfilled.

Sun, moon not giving their light; stars (those smaller lights referring possibly to about 1/3 of the early jewish Christians) was symbolic language given in Isaiah

See, the day of the LORD is coming—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger (Isaiah 13:9, 10, 13).
​

Yet, this is not the second coming of Christ, nor were any of these signs literally fulfilled in 539; this is simply an apocalyptic way of referring to the eclipse of Babylonian power by the Medes and Persians:

See, I will stir up against them the Medes, who do not care for silver and have no delight in gold. Their bows will strike down the young men; they will have no mercy on infants nor will they look with compassion on children. Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms, the glory of the Babylonians' pride, will be overthrown by God like Sodom and Gomorrah (Isaiah 13:17-19).
​

Jesus used the verses that the jewish disciples would have associated with the ending of Babylon as he talked about the ending of Jerusalem. He did something like this earlier in the Olivet when he spoke of the greatness of tribulation that would never be surpassed that would come upon all the land (of the old covenant promised land??). Daniel had used similar words to describe the earlier desolation of Jerusalem by the babylonians saying "for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem". Dan 9.
In like manner, Jesus was associating the language of Daniels statements about the babylonian desolation with Jeruslem so that the disciples would recognize that the 66-73 desolation and seige was going to be similar and even worse tribulation.

If/when one sees and understands that the Creation is still GOOD; and the man still retains the image of the Creator AND most importantly, that the olivet discourse was talking about the end of 'that' world... the end of the old covenant age of religion and the temporary pattern and shadow 'religion' of the jews that was given to Moses as a service to all peoples and nations and which confirmed the reality of the "NEW" Everlasting Covenant of Mercy of the Creator for all peoples (the just dying for the unjust), then one can begin to ask the Spirit about the fulfillments of the things Christ spoke about.

The 'end' mentioned in Daniel, the Olivet and other places was the "latter end" of the old covenant which was prophecied and promised (Duet 32) when the OC was spoken (Duet 11-32). It had (as prophecied) become a counterfiet religion in itself, just like babylonian snake religion and the tower of Babel was a false religion. "Babylon" ....Jerusalem.... has fallen.... fallen... just as the wicked witch of the west.

The principles and laws established and upheld by these eternal statutes remain and are upheld by Heaven, but the specific events spoken by Jesus were I believe to that Generation. The dominion of the kingdom of heaven was delivered and established (just as prophesied in Dan 7:27) to those who look to faith in Gods substitution work on the Cross for all in mankind who believe.

In Mark 9, when talking about the establishment of the kingdom of God (internally present and externally recognized) and talking about his coming in glory, he claifies 'this generation'...

38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, (called so of the end generation of old covenant national Israel in Duet 32) of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”
9 And He said to them, Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God 1present with power.”

So when did Christ come with glory..and the kingdom of God present with power?? Could it be as he the Creator first gave premonition in the glory of the cloud formations before he would come "through the minds of the leaders of the enemies" that was prophesied to happen at the end of the old covenant in Deut 32:42??


A question to ask yourself would be how you read these passages.

Do you read the Olivet and other scriptures as some coded words written to you yourself or to our generation to be interpreted; OR do you read them first as an actual historical record of actual conversations and teachings that Christ had with and to historical people of his day and the age that they lived in and which were recorded to be read by other contemporary peoples (as well as observed by us).

If Christ was referring to some future end of world generation, would he not have used the word "that" rather than "this". Would he not have said the generation who sees these signs will not pass....
Would he have emphasised this point?

Again, which of all these things were not fulfilled by the events up to and around 66-73 AD?

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

Help me understand the verse that says This generation will not pass away before Jesus returns. How does the Greek roughly translate to our modern language as I have always struggled with this.

I know we are not to know the day or the hour, but notice we could know the season, the generation, year or even month then. Maybe

26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

These verses are obviously about the last day and the return of Christ. Jesus was talking to the people gathered around him. I think he was talking about that present generation, there and then. It’s the only way it makes any sense.
The last verses from 32 on, are about telling people to look out for the signs of the return of Christ.. I think he is talking about the kingdom, as he is saying ‘you know that it is near’ that is probably the kingdom.. he also says that ‘Heaven and Earth will pass away’ that means that literally the earth will be destroyed, along with the entire universe.. (Heaven). That generation that were standing there, would see the arrival of the kingdom, in that the kingdom had arrived already with the living of Jesus, his fate, and resurrection.. and the fullness of the kingdom with the advent of the Christian era.
I think Jesus was talking about the last day, and the return of Christ, and the arrival of the Kingdom, the removal of the temporal, everything that we are aware of, and the beginning of the Kingdom, in another way.. the non-temporal kingdom of God.
It’s a difficult one, as he is talking about two things at the same time.
That’s why there will be no literal millennium.. (sorry folks).. the millennium is not literal it is symbolic. No rule of Christ in earth (as stated on the website of the church I just left).
The rule of Christ is where God is at.. and that aint the earth.
The meaning of it is that the people there and then, would see it all, because the arrival of the Christian era was the fullness of the kingdom, which continues with the return of Christ and the further kingdom of God.

 

[Jesusmyfriend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALRwf6EG7EU

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[HisdaughterJen]

What a bunch of little kids we are...arguing just like the disciples did over what Jesus meant. I suggest we go to our Father and ask Him.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

What a bunch of little kids we are...arguing just like the disciples did over what Jesus meant. I suggest we go to our Father and ask Him.

Let us know what he says.

 

[vinsight4u]

Jesus told His generation that they would not see any signs from heaven. He told them the only sign that they would see was to the sign of Jonas.

But Matthew 24 has > >

"...when ye shall see all these things..."

Luke 21:11
"And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
It is impossible for this to be back in the 1st century A.D.!
"great signs" - from heaven


Jesus told the people of His day > >

Matthew 12:3-40
"...no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:"


Matthew 16:3 (people desired a sign from heaven)
"...can not ye discern the signs of the times?"
v4
"...no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas, And he left them, and departed."


Luke 11:29
....This is an evil generation: they seek a sign: and there shall be no sign given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet."


------------The time of Matthew 24's signs of the end comes after we first have a time of wars and rumours of wars.
v6
but the end is not yet

Why doesn't that wars and rumours of wars secton bring the end? Because
v7
"For nation shall rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom..."
another world war

 

[Bick]

Help me understand the verse that says This generation will not pass away before Jesus returns. How does the Greek roughly translate to our modern language as I have always struggled with this.

I know we are not to know the day or the hour, but notice we could know the season, the generation, year or even month then. Maybe

MY COMMENTS: My fellow believer in Christ the Lord, I would first of all encourage you to be looking up for the 'rapture', the catching away of the church/body of Christ, meeting the Lord in the air, then being taken to the heavenlies, to ever be with the Lord.

It was Paul's great disire to be caught up to the heavens without dying, and, of course it is ours. There are no prophecies to be fulfilled. It could be at any time when the full number of the nations have come in to the church/body.

 

[Notrash]

Jesus told His generation that they would not see any signs from heaven. He told them the only sign that they would see was to the sign of Jonas.

Jesus told the people of His day > >

Matthew 12:3-40
"...no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:"


Matthew 16:3 (people desired a sign from heaven)
"...can not ye discern the signs of the times?"
v4
"...no sign be given unto it,(this generation) but the sign of the prophet Jonas, And he left them, and departed."


Luke 11:29
....This is an evil generation: they seek a sign: and there shall be no sign given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet."


------------The time of Matthew 24's signs of the end comes after we first have a time of wars and rumours of wars.
v6
but the end is not yet

Why doesn't that wars and rumours of wars secton bring the end? Because
v7
"For nation shall rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom..."
another world war

According to the futurist definition of "this generation"; those who sought a sign and who would be given the sign of the prophet Jonah cannot be referring to people in the generation that was living at that time because "this generation" means a future (to those it was spoken to) end times generation. Thus your meaning of 'this generation' is wrong in one application or the other

The pharisees were seeking more and more "signs" that Christ was the Messiah, but even though he did miracles, signs and wonders, their interpretation, blindness and desire for their own kingdom could not receive and believe in him because many were looking for a national king of the old covenant rather than an Individual King of Everlasting Life of the New Covenant. After his death and resurrection and Christ's message preached again to Judea through the Apostles testimony, many understood and learned his 'sign' confirming himself as Messiah (of all the world). Act 2,Peters sermon.

Your comparison of what the Pharisees were asking of Jesus as a sign confirming his identity versus the time indicator events leading up to his return in power/glory via the close of the old covenant age in 65-73 AD are not comparable. The things mentioned in Matt 24 were not 'signs' given to the last generation of the talmudic Pharisees to confirm his identity; but they were time indicators given to the believing Judean disciples to prepare them for their escape to Pella. Your argument and comparison based on 'signs' being not given to that generation of vipers is flawed.

Wars, rumors of wars, nation against itself.. etc.
From Octavian in 27 BC through most of Nero's reign was a period of Peace that had been so prevalent that it was titled Pax Romana. There had been a period of almost 80 yrs of "Peace" until the wars, rumors of wars, nation and kingdom rising against itself began as as the nation states rose against one another.
Vespacians election to leadership was instrumental in allowing Titus (the prince of Dan 9:26-27) to lead the Roman Army into Judea/Jerusalem as Vespacian turned back to quell the insurrections in Rome.

Roman civil wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Augustan interval

After 30 BC, the Republic was unified under leadership of Octavian. In 27 BC Octavian was granted the title of Augustus by the Senate. These two dates are considered to mark the end of the Republic and the birth of the Roman Empire. The period of rule by the Caesars was known as the "Pax Augusti" (peace of Augustus), and was the beginning of the era known as the "Pax Romana" (Roman Peace). The next Roman civil war would not be fought until after Nero's suicide in 68 AD, the year before the year of the four emperors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_the_Four_Emperors

The forced suicide of emperor Nero, in 68, was followed by a brief period of civil war, the first Roman civil war since Mark Antony's death in 30 BC. Between June of 68 and December of 69, Rome witnessed the successive rise and fall of Galba, Otho and Vitellius until the final accession of Vespasian, first ruler of the Flavian Dynasty. This period of civil war has become emblematic of the cyclic political disturbances in the history of the Roman Empire. The military and political anarchy created by this civil war had serious repercussions, such as the outbreak of the Batavian rebellion.

So again the question is WHICH of the things mentioned in Matt 24 were not fulfilled in the first century? The events listed in Matt 24, Lk 21 etc were time indicators for those believers in Judea to leave the old covenant 'promised land' just before the 'latter end' of that age and world prophesied in Deut 32 would occur as Christ came "through the minds of the leaders of the enemies.. as prophesied in Duet 32:42.

Adam Clarke lists and describes their fulfillment as have many other writers before and during the futurists emphasis of the last 150 yrs.

Adam Clarke : Commentary on the Whole Bible (1832) Free Online Books @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism and Preterist Eschatology

Again the question is: are we to reject that the Olivet discourse are historically accurate records of the conversations that Christ spoke to his disciples and those followers who were sitting there in 30 AD listening to him? Are we to project those words as if Christ didn't really care about their concerns about fulfilling the ending of the old covenant world and AGE?

How and with what hermeneutic allows for such a gross imposition on the text?

 

[Notrash]

There are no prophecies to be fulfilled. It could be at any time when the full number of the nations have come in to the church/body.

Greetings Bick.
Please restudy Rom 11. The word 'full number' is a mistranslation. The word should be 'fullness' as used earlier in the chapter and refers to the fullness of Christ being poured out individuals in the nations other than national Israel in order that those elect of remaining national israel were being made jealous unto belief.

Paul was in the time of the last generation of the old covenant spoken of in Duet 32. It is that which he quoted in Romans 10:19 in which (some) Israel would be made jealous by those who were not a people (of God) and by those who were from israel's perspective a 'foolish nation'. What Paul is saying in the ending of Rom 11 is that some of those in remaining national Israel would believe before the end of the old covenant and it's nation in 66-70 AD due to being made jealous of the fullness and blessing of Christ the Spirit being poured out on individuals in the nations that had begun with Cornelius 15 yrs earlier.

Part of those elect of Israel at that time period would come to believe and understand directly because of God's spirit and changed hearts being poured out onto all peoples.

Paul asks the question earlier if since the Gospel message had been spoken and reicieved by many through judea and was now being recieved by those in the nations, had God now turned his back on those in Judea who were now persecuting, killing, ridiculing and ostracizing the jewish believers.

Paul then uses himself as the example of someone who had once persecuted the sect and even participated in the murders saying "may it never be" that God turns his back on those that even then were enemies of christians and persecute the believers in the name of religion. If that were so, Paul himself's election would be voided.

 

[eyzonthepriz]

Help me understand the verse that says This generation will not pass away before Jesus returns. How does the Greek roughly translate to our modern language as I have always struggled with this.

I know we are not to know the day or the hour, but notice we could know the season, the generation, year or even month then. Maybe

If you have a spare hour, I gaurentee your mind will be made up on this issue. I too struggled with this verse and many others till I came across this sermon series by Pastor Jonathan Crosby. Question no more the answer is right here please listen to the full sermon and let me know what you think...
www.LetGodBeTrue.com - Free Audio Sermons

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

If you have a spare hour, I gaurentee your mind will be made up on this issue. I too struggled with this verse and many others till I came across this sermon series by Pastor Jonathan Crosby. Question no more the answer is right here please listen to the full sermon and let me know what you think...
www.LetGodBeTrue.com - Free Audio Sermons

what's the jist of it? an hour is a long time to sit and listen to someones particular theory.

 

[eyzonthepriz]

what's the jist of it? an hour is a long time to sit and listen to someones particular theory.

The sermon addresses the subject inquired about, "this generation". It leaves no questions unanswered about the subject and its not based on "theory" but the word of God. Give it a listen you wont be sorry.

For those of you who are somewhat interested to listen to the sermon, please dont post after listening only to five minutes or so. To do so would not do the sermon justuce. Comments made prematurely would hinder the absolute life changing outcome of the subject covered.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

I'll have to pass that sermon. It would take too long to get to the meat and potatoes.