Apostasy

[PT Calvinist]

Heb. mesubaa [מְשׁובָּה]; Gk. parapipto [παραπίπτω], aphistemi [ἀφίστημι], apostasia [ἀποστασία]). Defection from the faith, an act of unpardonable rebellion against God and his truth. The sin of Apostasy results in the abandonment of Christian doctrine and conduct. With respect to the covenant relationship established through prior profession of faith (passive profession in the case of baptized infants), apostates place themselves under the curse and wrath of God as covenant breakers, having entered into a state of final and irrevocable condemnation. Those who apostatize are thus numbered among the reprobate. Since the resurrection of Christ, there is no distinction between blasphemy against Christ and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (cf. Matt 12:31-32; Heb 6:4-6; 10:26-29; 1 John 5:16-17). Some random Scholar comments: "We must underscore the deep seriousness of the biblical warning against apostasy ‘after enlightenment' and ‘after the knowledge of the truth.' This is the apostasy which reviles the Spirit of grace and despises the Son of God and crucifies the Man of Sorrows anew" . That person is correct to refute the idea that this sin against the Holy Spirit is a mysterium iniquitatis ("a mystery of sin"), a sin difficult, if at all possible, to define precisely in the Bible.

Apostatizing from God's redemptive covenant is an act of unpardonable transgression and rebellion. All other sins are forgiven on true repentance and faith. Those who fall out of fellowship with the saints are restored to full communion through confession of sin and reaffirmation of faith in Jesus Christ. Excommunication, as a final step in the process of ecclesiastical discipline, is undertaken in the hope of restoring the wayward sinner who has fallen into grievous sin (1 Co 5:1-5).
Israel of old repeatedly broke covenant with God. By impugning the name and works of God, Israel despised her calling and proved to be a stubborn and disobedient nation. Pentateuchal law identifies covenantal faithlessness as apostasy (example.... the curses of the covenant pronounced on Mount Ebal by the Israelites in Deut 27:9-26). With respect to temporal blessing in the land of promise, restoration of Israel to divine favor after covenant breaking was always a consequence of divine grace and mercy, not because of meritorious works on Israel's part.
In biblical prophecy apostasy is an eschatological sign of the impending day of the Lord, a precursor of the final day of judgment. Ancient Israel's experience of divine wrath and displeasure served as typological foreshadowings of that latter day. The increase in apostasy in these last days of the church's wilderness experience is associated with the appearance of the "man of lawlessness" (2 Th 2:1-3).

Before you comment or "debate" know that they are futile worthless words with absolutley no meaning whatsoever.
I'm right, you're wrong

(Just kidding, comment away and discuss Apostasy please )

 

[Fixation On God]

maybe you need'a go read "Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit" by scot McKnight before you go off on your wild assumptions

 

[PT Calvinist]

I already read that wonderful excerpt, and I don't see how it disagrees with anything i've stated.
<staff edit>

before you go off on your wild assumptions

Could you please elaborate on what "wild assumptions" I have stated?
<staff edit>

 

[Fixation On God]

ICould you please elaborate on what "wild assumptions" I have stated?

Gladly...

Excommunication, as a final step in the process of ecclesiastical discipline, is undertaken in the hope of restoring the wayward sinner who has fallen into grievous sin (1 Co 5:1-5).

You obviously mis-used the context of all of this.
you said they excommunicated him when really

what he meant by: "To deliver such an one unto Satan&#8230;"
is to be read in connection with (1 Corinthians 5:3) and is what the apostle there determined to do with this incestuous person; namely, to deliver him unto Satan; by which is meant, not the act of excommunication, or the removing of him from the communion of the church, which is an act of the whole church, and not of any single person; whereas this was what the church had nothing to do with; it was not what they were to do, or ought to do, but what the apostle had resolved to do; and which was an act of his own, and peculiar to him as an apostle, see (1 Timothy 1:20) .

Nor is this a form of excommunication; nor was this phrase ever used in excommunicating persons by the primitive churches; nor ought it ever to be used; it is what no man, or set of men, have power to do now, since the ceasing of the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit, which the apostles were endowed with; who, as they had a power over Satan to dispossess him from the bodies of men, so to deliver up the bodies of men into his hands, as the apostle did this man's.

 

[2 King]

Gladly...



You obviously mis-used the context of all of this.
you said they excommunicated him when really

what he meant by: "To deliver such an one unto Satan&#8230;"
is to be read in connection with (1 Corinthians 5:3) and is what the apostle there determined to do with this incestuous person; namely, to deliver him unto Satan; by which is meant, not the act of excommunication, or the removing of him from the communion of the church, which is an act of the whole church, and not of any single person; whereas this was what the church had nothing to do with; it was not what they were to do, or ought to do, but what the apostle had resolved to do; and which was an act of his own, and peculiar to him as an apostle, see (1 Timothy 1:20) .

Nor is this a form of excommunication; nor was this phrase ever used in excommunicating persons by the primitive churches; nor ought it ever to be used; it is what no man, or set of men, have power to do now, since the ceasing of the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit, which the apostles were endowed with; who, as they had a power over Satan to dispossess him from the bodies of men, so to deliver up the bodies of men into his hands, as the apostle did this man's.

I have to agree with FoG 100%.

You [Holy_Bannana] are wrong about excommunication.

In my recent studies on Theology, I have come across some good stuff about Apostasy in the Book of Ezekiel.
More than any other prophet, Ezekiel graphically portrays the perversity and effrontery of apostasy. Here, too, the fall of the temple is before him, since it is the gravity of Israel's sin that explains how God could have allowed the temple to fall.

In chapter 23 using the most graphic sexual imagery found anywhere in the Bible, Ezekiel set out the parable of the sisters Oholah and Oholibah. Oholah, he tells us, represents Samaria just as Oholibah represents Jerusalem. Oholah first turned away from God, her true husband, and "lusted after" Assyria and Egypt. In response to her adultery, God turned her over to the viciousness of the Assyrians (Ezekiel 23:5-10); in other words, God allowed Assyria to destroy Samaria.
Oholibah learned nothing from her sister's experience but instead behaved even worse. She committed adultery with the Assyrians, the Egyptians, and the Babylonians out of a lust for their glory and strength. As a result, she too was doomed (Ezekiel 23:11-49).

The almost inappropriate contentographic character of this parable serves several purposes. First, it vividly displays apostasy as an act as disgraceful and brazen as adultery. Second, it brings out the character of Israel's apostasy. When the Jews allowed themselves to be awestruck by the power of the great nations and sought alliances with them, they were in effect turning their back on God in the way a wayward wife might abandon her husband for a rich and handsome paramour. In addition, alliances with these nations inevitably drew Israel into the worship of their gods (Ezekiel 23:30). Third, the parable illustrates the folly of Jerusalem, in that its people did not learn the lessons vividly acted out before them in the destruction of Samaria. Guilty of such outrageous behavior, the people hardly had a right to be surprised when they saw judgment bearing down on their city and temple.

In chapter 8, Ezekiel describes the apostasy that was being committed in the temple itself. He tells us that in the sixth month of the sixth year (about five years before the destruction of Jerusalem), he was taken to the temple in a vision. There in the very house of God Ezekiel saw several examples of Jerusalem's apostasy.
First, he saw the "idol of jealousy" in the north gate (Ezekiel 8:5-6). This may have been an image of Asherah (cf. 2 Kings 21:7). Its position in the north is significant since that is the direction from which Israel's enemies, as executioners of Yahweh's anger, generally came.
Next, he went into a secret room where the elders were worshiping images of animal gods (Ezekiel 8:7-12). The zoomorphic nature of these gods would indicate that they were Egyptian; the secrecy of the cult reflected a desire to hide it not only from God but from the Babylonians, who would have regarded this as an act of rebellion against their empire. The Jews would soon learn that Egyptian help was empty.

Next, again at the north gate, he saw women "mourning for Tammuz" (Ezekiel 8:14). Tammuz was a dying and rising fertility god, and his adoration was meant to ensure success in agriculture. In this, the people had abandoned God as Lord of nature and turned to other gods for good crops and healthy cattle.
Finally, Ezekiel sees men on the east side of the temple bowing to the rising sun with their backs to the temple (8:16-17). The implication is that as they bow they turn their buttocks toward God. The phrase translated "putting a branch to their nose" should probably be translated, "they put a stench in my (God's) nose."
The outcome of apostasy is that God shows no pity (8:18). For Ezekiel's readers, the reason for the destruction of the temple is obvious.

 

[RobertZ]

What if you are afraid that you have made the great transgression and cannot be redeemed?

 

[PT Calvinist]

What if you are afraid that you have made the great transgression and cannot be redeemed?

Foolishness.
That's impossible. When you commit Blashemy of the Holy Ghost, you won't turn to repentance because your heart will be hardened.

Look at Caiaphas the High priest that persecuted Jesus. He blasphemed the Holy Ghost via. attributing the power Jesus got from the Holy Ghost to the Power of Satan, (basically saying: Caiaphas said that Jesus got His power to do miracles and such from Satan.)
Even after The temple was torn down by the power of God and Jesus rose from the dead, you read in Acts that Caiaphas hadn't changed one bit. His heart was so hard he wouldn't even consider repentance.

 

[PT Calvinist]

I have to agree with FoG 100&#37;.

You [Holy_Bannana] are wrong about excommunication.

FINE!!!!!!!

So I'm wrong about the whole Excommunication part. But I am 100% right about all other statements.

 

[2 King]

The book of Jud also warns against Apostasy...
Jude's letter focuses on apostasy-when people turn away from God's truth and embrace false teachings. Jude reminded his readers of God's judgment on those who had left the faith. This letter warns against false teachers-in this case, probably Gnostic teachers. Gnostics opposed two of the basic tenets of Christianity-the incarnation of Christ and the call to Christian ethics. Jude wrote to combat those false teachings and to encourage true doctrine and right conduct.

 

[zeke37]

so what is the question, or thought that you guys want to discuss....

are those that fall into apostasy in the hour of temptation, doomed to perdition, or is there some way out of apostasy and back into God's good graces???

I believe that the latter is biblically provable

 

[PT Calvinist]

what we want to discuss is everything related to Apostasy, so yes that will do just nicely.

 

[MrPolo]

wow...
I'm impressed kid.
Apears that you have been burying yourself in the books.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, because I don't want to give in the possibility that "I could be wrong."

I'll get back to you when I've done a full-scale review of your post 100 times

Citing the understanding of the ECFs, the Haydock Bible Commentary does support your view of excommunication in this passage:

Ver. 3. &c. Have already judged, decreed, and do decree, being present in spirit with you, and with your congregation. --- In the name....with the power of our Lord Jesus, to deliver such a one to Satan by a sentence of excommunication, depriving him of the sacraments, the prayers, and communion, and even of the conversation of the rest of the faithful. It is likely in those times, such excommunicated persons were delivered over to Satan, so as to be corporally tormented by the devil. But most divines are of opinion that this man was delivered over to the devil, to strike a terror into others. See St. Chrysostom, hom. xv. and this is said to be done for the destruction, or punishment of the flesh, that the spirit, or soul, may be saved. (Witham) --- It is the opinion of most of the Greek fathers, that this man was either really possessed by the devil, or at least struck with such a complaint as a mortification, and humiliation to his body, whilst it served to purify his soul. We have seen from many instances in holy Scripture, that it was not unusual, in the origin of Christianity, for persons who had fallen into crimes of this nature, to be punished with death, some grievous sickness, or by being possessed by the devil. But most divines are of opinion that this man was delivered over to the devil, so as to be separated from the communion of the Church. (St. Ambrose; Estius; Just.[St. Justin Martyr?]; Menochius)​

 

[PT Calvinist]

FINE!!!!!!!

So I'm wrong about the whole Excommunication part. But I am 100% right about all other statements.

hey brother polo. maybe you missed the part where I said I was wrong...

 

[2 King]

Apostasy:

Its Cause. The marriage of the sons of God and the daughters of Men (Genesis 6:1,2).


Its Effect on the Human Race. Men forgot God and became giants In wickedness (Genesis 6:3,4).


Its Effect on the Creator. "And the LORD repented that he had Made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart" (Genesis 6:6). The word "repent" always describes a change in something. There is a sense In which God cannot change (Matthew 3:9; James 1:17). He is always God, omnipotent and eternal. There is a sense in which He changes His Purposes toward us, otherwise forgiveness would be impossible (Jeremiah 31:34; Hebrews 8:12). God has declared that the soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:4), but the sinner who turns from his sins and obeys the Lord, has the promise of salvation (2 Peter 3:9). God therefore changes His purposes toward men, but He is always God!

 

[MrPolo]

hey brother polo. maybe you missed the part where I said I was wrong...

Maybe you were wrong when you said you were wrong.

 

[BreadAlone]

are those that fall into apostasy in the hour of temptation, doomed to perdition, or is there some way out of apostasy and back into God's good graces???

I believe that the latter is biblically provable

I think that the parable of the lost son speaks to this model.

 

[2 King]

a-pos'-ta-si, a-pos'-tat (he apostasia, "a standing away from"):

I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith. Paul was falsely accused of teaching the Jews apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21); he predicted the great apostasy from Christianity, foretold by Jesus (Matthew 24:10-12) which would precede "the day of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 2:2). Apostasy, not in name but in fact, meets scathing rebuke in the Epistle of Jude, e.g. the apostasy of angels (Jude 1:6). Foretold, with warnings, as sure to abound in the latter days (1 Timothy 4:1-3; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; 2 Peter 3:17). Causes of: persecution (Matthew 24:9,10); false teachers (Matthew 24:11); temptation (Luke 8:13); worldliness (2 Timothy 4:4); defective knowledge of Christ (1John 2:19); moral lapse (Hebrews 6:4-6); forsaking worship and spiritual living (Hebrews 10:25-31); unbelief (Hebrews 3:12). Biblical examples: Saul (1 Samuel 15:11); Amaziah (2 Chronicles 25:14,27); many disciples (John 6:66); Hymeneus and Alexander (1 Timothy 1:19,20); Demas (2 Timothy 4:10). For more illustration check out Deuteronomy 13:13; Zec 1:4-6; Galatians 5:4; 2 Peter 2:20,21.

"Forsaking YHWH" was the characteristic and oft-recurring sin of the chosen people, especially in their contact with idolatrous nations. It constituted their supreme national peril. The tendency appeared in their earliest history, as abundantly seen in the warnings and prohibitions of the laws of Moses (Exodus 20:3,4,23; Deuteronomy 6:14; 11:16). The fearful consequences of religious and moral apostasy appear in the curses pronounced against this sin, on Mount Ebal, by the representatives of six of the tribes of Israel, elected by Moses (Deuteronomy 27:13-26; 28:15-68). So wayward was the heart of Israel, even in the years immediately following the national emancipation, in the wilderness, that Joshua found it necessary to re-pledge the entire nation to a new fidelity to YHWH and to their original covenant before they were permitted to enter the Promised Land (Joshua 24:1-28). Infidelity to this covenant blighted the nation's prospects and growth during the time of the Judges (Judges 2:11-15; 10:6,10,13; 1 Samuel 12:10). It was the cause of prolific and ever-increasing evil, civic and moral, from Solomon's day to the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. Many of the kings of the divided kingdom apostatized, leading the people, as in the case of Rehoboam, into the grossest forms of idolatry and immorality (1 Kings 14:22-24; 2 Chronicles 12:1). Conspicuous examples of such royal apostasy are Jeroboam (1 Kings 12:28-32); Ahab (1 Kings 16:30-33); Ahaziah (1 Kings 22:51-53); Jehoram (2 Chronicles 21:6,10,12-15); Ahaz (2 Chronicles 28:1-4); Manasseh (2 Chronicles 33:1-9); Amen (2 Chronicles 33:22). Prophecy originated as a Divine and imperative protest against this historic tendency to defection from the religion of Yahweh. In classical Greek, apostasy signified revolt from a military commander. In the roman catholic church it denotes abandonment of religious orders; renunciation of ecclesiastical authority; defection from the faith. The persecutions of the early Christian centuries forced many to deny Christian discipleship and to signify their apostasy by offering incense to a heathen deity or blaspheming the name of Christ.

The emperor Julian, who probably never vitally embraced the Christian faith, is known in history as "the Apostate," having renounced Christianity for paganism soon after his accession to the throne. An apostate's defection from the faith may be intellectual, as in the case of Ernst Haeckel, who, because of his materialistic philosophy, publicly and formally renounced Christianity and the church; or it may be moral and spiritual, as with Judas, who for filthy lucre's sake basely betrayed his Lord.

 

[2 King]

Maybe you were wrong when you said you were wrong.

He was/is wrong about excommunication of the Church....

Me and FoG already proved him wrong. IF you want to start another thread on the theory of Excommunication I would be glad to share more input

 

[PT Calvinist]

nice theology 2 king, I agree

 

[zeke37]

I think that the parable of the lost son speaks to this model.

this pasage is clearly about that time...

Rev18:1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.