Have any of the creationists here done the following?

[LifeToTheFullest!]

You didn't answer my questions and I'll assume it was by mistake. So, I'll repost my questions:

Do we have to have been there for us to have evidence of it having happened?


From dictionary.com:

"1. Incapable of being moved; firmly fixed; fast; -- used of material things; as, an immovable foundatin. Immovable, infixed, and frozen round. --Milton.
2. Steadfast; fixed; unalterable; unchangeable; -- used of the mind or will; as, an immovable purpose, or a man who remain immovable.
3. Not capable of being affected or moved in feeling or by sympathy; unimpressible; impassive. --Dryden."
​

So, your definition of immovable is not that of the English language?

Taking AV seriously and trying to have a dialogue with him is akin to a trip down the rabbit hole.

 

[pgp_protector]

No, I mean "immovable".

I'm not talking about stopping a train by standing in front of it.

I'm talking about altering it on its course.

In other words, the earth cannot be moved out of its orbit --- nor can its rotation be slowed.

You don't remember that quake that change the earth's rotation a few years ago do you ?

 

[plindboe]

It might 'falsify' evolution (like it's ever been 'truified' in the first place), but knowing evolutionists, they'd eventually come up with something like Evolution II or Neo-evolution to explain it.

And we'd just start all over.

From the rubble some other theory will undoubtedly arise, but it would be quite different. Still, no matter what, I'm sure it too would get the fundies panties in a bunch, as they won't accept any natural explanation for life.

I'm an atheist when it comes to evolution

So am I.

Peter

 

[juvenissun]

Assume that things do evolve into other things (for the sake of simplicity, we'll not bring cladistics into it just now ).

Roughly how many intermediates/how much time should be between a fish and a snake or a monkey and a human? And roughly what properties would the intermediates have?

BTW, you do know that evolution doesn't predict that there should be "bridge species" (by the way, I like that phrase) between any two living groups?

Just checking how much effect that biology course had on you

I admire your... confidence in your knowledge, especially in the light of our previous discussions about evolution (ah, fond memories of a thread about bacteria...). If I were half as confident as you, I'd do science the greatest service by staying the h*** away from it.

I'd love to see that. I might even keep my mouth shut and let you play

*rummages for pop corn*

Trying to assess whether the creationists on board understand what they reject?

Recently I heard that some bacteria was found alive in a liquid bubble sealed in a Mesozoic salt dome. That is great. My question is then: Do we find that particular type of bacteria less evolved than the current version?

I bet the answer is not. That fits my OP on that thread: Bacteria do not evolve. (should that one be revived?)

 

[sandwiches]

Recently I heard that some bacteria was found alive in a liquid bubble sealed in a Mesozoic salt dome. That is great. My question is then: Do we find that particular type of bacteria less evolved than the current version?

I bet the answer is not. That fits my OP on that thread: Bacteria do not evolve. (should that one be revived?)

Of all living organisms available, to call bacteria non-evolving is not a very informed opinion since bacteria and viruses is where we've seen the most evolution than in any other organisms.

 

[Hespera]

I don't have to disprove something that hasn't been proven.

No of course you dont HAVE to. Kinda like you might tell Tiger Woods that you dont have to prove you can play golf better than he can.

One is above wealth and fame in these things, i guess.

Theories in science, of course, are never proven, tho they can be demonstrated to be true beyond a reasonable doubt. Some like their unreasonable doubts, and they are welcome to them, and all the glory attendant thereto.

 

[Hespera]

no that is taken out of context

Context... yes. Sounds just like what politicians always say to get out of it when they put their foot in their mouth.

Nobody believes it of course.

 

[Hespera]

No what bothered you is that I intentionally left myself out there one time and you bit, and now you're not sure when I am serious and when I am just working you up in a lather.

Is he really sharp or is he just another country-bumpkin (I am talking about myself here)?

But I absolutely love the word "snarky".

Snarky is a good word.

Irony doesnt work well via internet, and getting someone to "bite" is no trick. Tele-psych (as if figuring that im working up a lather) doesnt work for you either. Or anyone else.

Now I wouldnt have an opinion aobut "bumpkin" or whetehr you are "really sharp". You have essentially no demonstrated knowledge of science / evolution, so I am going on the assumption that what I see is what is there.

 

[Hespera]

We will just have to agree to disagree. None of that proves anything more than one person/group of people's opinion. Science constantly goes back and rewrites the fundamentals. In fact, if evolution was proven as you say then there would only be Creationist who disagreed, but that isn't the only two theories. Why haven't these other "worldly" groups jumped on board with Evolution with all this indisputable proof and left only us weirdos?

The Bible is constant, science is not.

The bit about rewriting the fundamentals is just your imagination of course but science, like math, is a process of discovery. The bible is constant if not consistent. Same with other 'holy books".

The bible has been saying that the value of Pi is 3.0 for many years now, and it still is wrong.

as for this "Why haven't these other "worldly" groups jumped on board with Evolution with all this indisputable proof and left only us weirdos?"

Every educated person in the world is aware of evolution.

There are creation stories from all over the world, every culture probably has had one. Some outgrow their superstitions, some have not yet.

Not every scientist in China is even aware that there is a Christan cult that thinks all their work is bunko, or that there are supposed to be other "theories" of equal or greater value.

Of course, in China like everywhere that logic and evidence trumps superstition, if someone ever found a flaw in the theory that would disprove it, they be on it "like a chicken on a junebug".

Why havent any of these people working in all the related fields all around the wrold ever been able to find the flaw that would be the greatest scientific discovery of all time? Does that seem a little odd? Esp as, if the theory is false, it should be so flawed in so many ways, a child should be able to do it. (kinda like all the childish ideas that are put forward on this forum as "proof" that evolution is false).

 

[AV1611VET]

The bible has been saying that the value of Pi is 3.0 for many years now, and it still is wrong.

What is the value of Pi, Hespera?

 

[Hespera]

What is the value of Pi, Hespera?

Is the value of Pi given in the bible accurate, or is it approximate?

last time, you ducked out on this pretending you didnt understand what I was saying. You gonna duck out this time too?

 

[AV1611VET]

Is the value of Pi given in the bible accurate, or is it approximate?

last time, you ducked out on this pretending you didnt understand what I was saying. You gonna duck out this time too?

What is the value of Pi, Hespera?

If you don't know what it is, anything I say can be construed by you as "inaccurate".

I just want to see where the problem lies.

So please feel free to stop telling me what it isn't, and please tell me what it is.

 

[rosenherman]

The Bible also says that to God a day is like a year and a year is like a day so that His 6 days could very well have been several billion years.
​

no that is taken out of context

Well, I will admit to misquoting the scripture. However, here it is in context:

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:8 & 9 [NIV]

This doesn't negate the accuracy of my statement. His 6 days could have been a blink of an eye or millennia.

 

[Hespera]

What is the value of Pi, Hespera?

If you don't know what it is, anything I say can be construed by you as "inaccurate".

I just want to see where the problem lies.

So please feel free to stop telling me what it isn't, and please tell me what it is.

There is no problem with the value of Pi as given in the bible unless you think the bible is accurate.

Feel free to tell me that the bible is accurate, and show me, while you are at it. Something about measuring precisely with elbows and strings, i think, isnt it?



There would not be room on the internet for the full value of Pi. So here, have a hobby..

Pi and the Fibonacci Numbers

 

[AV1611VET]

There is no problem with the value of Pi as given in the bible unless you think the bible is accurate.

Feel free to tell me that the bible is accurate, and show me, while you are at it. Something about measuring precisely with elbows and strings, i think, isnt it?



There would not be room on the internet for the full value of Pi. So here, have a hpbby..

Pi and the Fibonacci Numbers

Hespera, for the third time, what is the value of Pi, please?

 

[rosenherman]

There is no problem with the value of Pi as given in the bible unless you think the bible is accurate.

Feel free to tell me that the bible is accurate, and show me, while you are at it. Something about measuring precisely with elbows and strings, i think, isnt it?



There would not be room on the internet for the full value of Pi. So here, have a hpbby..

Pi and the Fibonacci Numbers

hpbby?

 

[Hespera]

Hespera, for the third time, what is the value of Pi, please?

I gave you the value of Pi. You want it in digits, I give you a hobby. Go ahead and start writing them down. Nobody knows yet what happens out there after say 20 billion digits. Maybe you will find a Message.


Now for the more than third time, do you agree that the bible only gives an approximate value for Pi? Do you think its possible to make accurate measurements with fingers, elbows and string?

Or are you determined to play weasel word and evasion until you get tired of it then exit without every answering? May as well do it now. Anyone watching will know what it means.

 

[loveiseverywhere]

This seems to be a very common misconception. Evolution never says, and never has said, that any animal should turn into something else. In fact, if we ever did see an animal suddenly become another type of animal, it would be evidence for something else entirely: creation. A turtle giving birth to a frog would overnight turn evolution inside out and wipe it off the table; looking for that kind of thing in order to prove evolution is doing it backwards.

You see, evolution predicts slow, gradual change. Creation predicts the sudden appearance of new animals. So really, the very reason that you believe in creation is in fact disproving that same creation. The central issue is that you don't truly understand what evolution teaches.

Thank you. And that was the point of this thread. Every single person here who tries to debunk evolution doesn't even understand even the basic principles of evolution. It would be like me trying to debunk calculus when I don't even know basic math.

 

[loveiseverywhere]

From what to what?

Let me make an honest suggestion to those of you who think transitional fossils don't exist.

Read an evolution textbook. Read Jerry Coyne's book, Why Evolution is True. Read Evolution for Everyone.

READ. READ. READ!!!! and stop expecting people to spood feed you simplistic answers to a complex subject.

 

[AV1611VET]

I gave you the value of Pi.

Not in this context though.

I have a feeling you know I'm about to pwn you with however you answer.

You know as well as I do that no matter what value you answer with, it will be, according to your words, 'wrong'.

You want it in digits, I give you a hobby. Go ahead and start writing them down. Nobody knows yet what happens out there after say 20 billion digits.

Yes they do.

Professor Yasumasa Kanada and a team of researchers set a new world record by calculating the value of pi to 1.24 trillion places, project team member Makoto Kudo said yesterday. The previous record, set by Kanada in 1999, was 206.158 billion places.

---

Now for the more than third time, do you agree that the bible only gives an approximate value for Pi?

No, I do not.

I have a feeling you already know that I have stated:

1. The Bible does not state the value of Pi.
2. To read Pi into the Bible accurately, simply truncate the decimal places.

Do you think its possible to make accurate measurements with fingers, elbows and string?

Yes.

Or are you determined to play weasel word and evasion until you get tired of it then exit without every answering?

Why should I change my style now?

May as well do it now. Anyone watching will know what it means.

I think "anyone watching" for any length of time will quickly see that you are the only person that seems to have this much trouble with Pi and cubits.