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Would someone please prove that creationism is not a crock,

Cabal

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On the other hand, without fossils there is no evidence that any leaps ever happened, and of course there is no evidence that leaps or gradual changes are happening today in any of the millions of species that still exist.

Yeah, funny that, given that 100 years is an even SHORTER length of time geologically.....

Thats two, if your gonna make me go through all 300 thou then I will and I can do it with a great big wide ear to ear kool-ade smile.

300000. Seriously. Ok, I'm calling BS on this one. And if they're as crummy as the first two, don't bother.

But now that I have pointed out a tremendous flaw in your faith...actually I already know your response...heard them all thousands of times..go ahead and beat around the bush....

Science =/= faith....

see, you were created with choice, unlike animals that have instincts we have choices...if you chose to put your faith in something with soooooo many holes and is completely dependant on chance then that is your choice. As for me and my house I will serve the Lord.

Evolution is NOT, repeat, NOT chance. If you had any notion of what you were talking about, you'd realise that.
 
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Cabal

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Dont correct me if I am wrong cause I am not. You asking me to come up with proof that falsifies evo, yet there is no proof it exists......what have you got? theories?..hahahahahaha. Go for the 250 thou that is legitimatly offered to anyone who can prove evo is a fact. Really its there....then come blow your horn....sorry I cant falsify something thats not there..you have an oportunity to the sum of 250 thou tho...go for it, what have you got to lose if your wrong?.....quite a bit...what have I got to lose if I am wrong........nothing.......but a whole lot more to gain if I am right.

Also, I find it really offensive you keep waving Hovind's moving-goalpost-tastic cash challenge at people. Despite what you may think, people who accept evolution aren't going to be automatically swayed by the mention of cash, so you can stop mentioning it as if it's some sort of incentive to consider the flaws in a theory. Evolution is not dogma and science's default setting is to constantly question anyway.

You might want to consider WHO made the challenge and then WHAT he was imprisoned for......
 
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Thomas Anderson

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listen to some of the debates with Hovind...he challenged anybody with one degree or more in the field. The evos make the same empty chance, maybe, could of ,might of arguments that you do...backed by NO PROOF...where is it...even one small transitional proof....they are not there. The fossils show PROOF that no species trancended. Or did the evos conjure some up in their mind? Like the bible says the evos are "the blind leading the blind" Its not what they find, its what the evos do with what they find......entire prehistoric age created by one jaw bone....

3 of 300,000 that evo is without a doubt a faith...not a science, and I have not used Hovind in any so far....but you should listen to some of his debates, and like he says, "i win these debates not cause I am smarter, but because I am right"
When confronted with the Second Law of Thermodynamics, evolutionists usually use two tricks to try to escape. The first is to state that "it only applies to closed systems, and biological creatures are open systems, so it doesn't affect evolution." The fact is that the Second Law applies to all systems, open or closed, and to all actions and chemical reactions, from molecules to galaxies. The words "except for..." are not in this universal law. A thermodynamics system is simply any part of the universe we want to study. If we are doing an experiment in a bottle, the inside of the bottle is our system and the bottle itself is the "walls" of the system. There are only 3 kinds of systems: if no energy or matter can pass through the walls, it is an isolated system; if energy can pass through but matter cannot, it is a closed system; if both energy and matter can pass through the walls, it is an open system. Now, it is true that the laws of thermodynamics and entropy are defined in terms of isolated systems, because that is the simplest way to express them. However, experts who write textbooks on the subject are quick to say that isolated systems do not occur in nature. For practical applications, a procedure called the Legendre Transform mathematically converts entropy to a variable called Gibbs free energy that is useful for working with real-world systems. Most natural systems are open, but it is convenient to model them as closed. For example, even though a bacterium is an open system, modeling it as a closed system makes it easier to understand chemical reactions in it.2,8 You are an open system. You eat food (which comes from outside yourself) and your body survives and grows. Evolutionists believe that all we need is an open system with sufficient energy flowing into it for evolution to succeed. If that were so, you could just stand right behind a jet engine as the aircraft prepares for takeoff, absorb that blast of energy, and evolve to a higher life form. In reality, of course, you would be incinerated because absorbing energy without a mechanism to convert it to a useful form and employ it is destructive or useless. The mechanism must be very specific. Sticking food in your ear will not work; it must go into your mouth and through the digestive system. And the mechanism must be in place and functioning first, before energy is added, or the energy is wasted. The "open system" ploy is just an attempt to avoid dealing with the Second Law because the Law prohibits any functioning biological mechanism from falling together by pure chance, without assistance or plan, using only the properties of matter.

Once again evos relying on chance. Such great faith
 
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LifeToTheFullest!

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listen to some of the debates with Hovind...he challenged anybody with one degree or more in the field. The evos make the same empty chance, maybe, could of ,might of arguments that you do...backed by NO PROOF...where is it...even one small transitional proof....they are not there. The fossils show PROOF that no species trancended. Or did the evos conjure some up in their mind? Like the bible says the evos are "the blind leading the blind" Its not what they find, its what the evos do with what they find......entire prehistoric age created by one jaw bone....

3 of 300,000 that evo is without a doubt a faith...not a science, and I have not used Hovind in any so far....but you should listen to some of his debates, and like he says, "i win these debates not cause I am smarter, but because I am right"
When confronted with the Second Law of Thermodynamics, evolutionists usually use two tricks to try to escape. The first is to state that "it only applies to closed systems, and biological creatures are open systems, so it doesn't affect evolution." The fact is that the Second Law applies to all systems, open or closed, and to all actions and chemical reactions, from molecules to galaxies. The words "except for..." are not in this universal law. A thermodynamics system is simply any part of the universe we want to study. If we are doing an experiment in a bottle, the inside of the bottle is our system and the bottle itself is the "walls" of the system. There are only 3 kinds of systems: if no energy or matter can pass through the walls, it is an isolated system; if energy can pass through but matter cannot, it is a closed system; if both energy and matter can pass through the walls, it is an open system. Now, it is true that the laws of thermodynamics and entropy are defined in terms of isolated systems, because that is the simplest way to express them. However, experts who write textbooks on the subject are quick to say that isolated systems do not occur in nature. For practical applications, a procedure called the Legendre Transform mathematically converts entropy to a variable called Gibbs free energy that is useful for working with real-world systems. Most natural systems are open, but it is convenient to model them as closed. For example, even though a bacterium is an open system, modeling it as a closed system makes it easier to understand chemical reactions in it.2,8 You are an open system. You eat food (which comes from outside yourself) and your body survives and grows. Evolutionists believe that all we need is an open system with sufficient energy flowing into it for evolution to succeed. If that were so, you could just stand right behind a jet engine as the aircraft prepares for takeoff, absorb that blast of energy, and evolve to a higher life form. In reality, of course, you would be incinerated because absorbing energy without a mechanism to convert it to a useful form and employ it is destructive or useless. The mechanism must be very specific. Sticking food in your ear will not work; it must go into your mouth and through the digestive system. And the mechanism must be in place and functioning first, before energy is added, or the energy is wasted. The "open system" ploy is just an attempt to avoid dealing with the Second Law because the Law prohibits any functioning biological mechanism from falling together by pure chance, without assistance or plan, using only the properties of matter.

Once again evos relying on chance. Such great faith
Whenever I see a creationist use the 2LOT... it's always :thumbsup:!
 
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Thomas Anderson

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I already have more than enough scientific and biblical and historical proof that evo is a faith. As an evo dont you find it interesting that every species has reached completeness at the same time?...Oh yah, according to evos its an ongoing process. Wow I really want to know what it was like before our brain, heart, lungs, digestive system, reproduction system was fully intact. Just try to picture it. Maybe that is why there is no evidence of any intelligence on the earth until the last 6 or 7 thusand years....then there are just bones...arrow heads...stone axes...a few cave drawings...........so for millions of years thats all we did...and in the last hundred or so we are , flying jets, electronics are soaring..building massive telescopes.... walking on the moon....all of a sudden we figured out how to use our brains?...for millions of years we were happy just hunting and gathering.....oh yah ...we were not quite finshed...at one point...what...after 3 million years we finally evolved eyes. (I am laughing as I think of this)..But I am desperately trying to find the faith to believe it...just blobs squirming along changing as millions of years go by ....common sense tingling? Our brain evolving....now that is a tough pill to swallow...such faith. Once again I must ask who knew there were sounds to hear so we grew ears...what is a flower but beauty to behold.Thank God for eyes. Who do you thank?Yes we figured out how to use our brains after countless MILLIONS of years of not using it (at least there is no evidence of it in any finds)look what we can do now. Lets take a verse from the bible Daniel 12:4 "But you, Daniel close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge"...That is pretty much what we are doing now isn't it? I have trouble not being sarcastic but when I think of where your faith is .....tremendous faith.......in chance yet......wow
 
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Cabal

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I already have more than enough scientific and biblical and historical proof that evo is a faith. As an evo dont you find it interesting that every species has reached completeness at the same time?...Oh yah, according to evos its an ongoing process. Wow I really want to know what it was like before our brain, heart, lungs, digestive system, reproduction system was fully intact. Just try to picture it. Maybe that is why there is no evidence of any intelligence on the earth until the last 6 or 7 thusand years....then there are just bones...arrow heads...stone axes...a few cave drawings...........so for millions of years thats all we did...and in the last hundred or so we are , flying jets, electronics are soaring..building massive telescopes.... walking on the moon....all of a sudden we figured out how to use our brains?...for millions of years we were happy just hunting and gathering.....oh yah ...we were not quite finshed...at one point...what...after 3 million years we finally evolved eyes. (I am laughing as I think of this)..But I am desperately trying to find the faith to believe it...just blobs squirming along changing as millions of years go by ....common sense tingling? Our brain evolving....now that is a tough pill to swallow...such faith. Once again I must ask who knew there were sounds to hear so we grew ears...what is a flower but beauty to behold.Thank God for eyes. Who do you thank?Yes we figured out how to use our brains after countless MILLIONS of years of not using it (at least there is no evidence of it in any finds)look what we can do now. Lets take a verse from the bible Daniel 12:4 "But you, Daniel close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge"...That is pretty much what we are doing now isn't it? I have trouble not being sarcastic but when I think of where your faith is .....tremendous faith.......in chance yet......wow

Might want to actually ADDRESS WHAT PEOPLE ARE POSTING. Evolution DOESN'T have a goal, there is no such thing as completeness, there is only the attempt to optimise for a specific niche. The fact that you can't believe ToE does nothing to address its validity.

Word to the not-so-wise, can the sarcasm, aside from sounding incredibly arrogant, any point you might have (I'm being charitable here) is getting lost amidst it all.
 
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Cabal

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listen to some of the debates with Hovind...he challenged anybody with one degree or more in the field. The evos make the same empty chance, maybe, could of ,might of arguments that you do...backed by NO PROOF...where is it...even one small transitional proof....they are not there. The fossils show PROOF that no species trancended. Or did the evos conjure some up in their mind? Like the bible says the evos are "the blind leading the blind" Its not what they find, its what the evos do with what they find......entire prehistoric age created by one jaw bone....

3 of 300,000 that evo is without a doubt a faith...not a science, and I have not used Hovind in any so far....but you should listen to some of his debates, and like he says, "i win these debates not cause I am smarter, but because I am right"
When confronted with the Second Law of Thermodynamics, evolutionists usually use two tricks to try to escape. The first is to state that "it only applies to closed systems, and biological creatures are open systems, so it doesn't affect evolution." The fact is that the Second Law applies to all systems, open or closed, and to all actions and chemical reactions, from molecules to galaxies. The words "except for..." are not in this universal law. A thermodynamics system is simply any part of the universe we want to study. If we are doing an experiment in a bottle, the inside of the bottle is our system and the bottle itself is the "walls" of the system. There are only 3 kinds of systems: if no energy or matter can pass through the walls, it is an isolated system; if energy can pass through but matter cannot, it is a closed system; if both energy and matter can pass through the walls, it is an open system. Now, it is true that the laws of thermodynamics and entropy are defined in terms of isolated systems, because that is the simplest way to express them. However, experts who write textbooks on the subject are quick to say that isolated systems do not occur in nature. For practical applications, a procedure called the Legendre Transform mathematically converts entropy to a variable called Gibbs free energy that is useful for working with real-world systems. Most natural systems are open, but it is convenient to model them as closed. For example, even though a bacterium is an open system, modeling it as a closed system makes it easier to understand chemical reactions in it.2,8 You are an open system. You eat food (which comes from outside yourself) and your body survives and grows. Evolutionists believe that all we need is an open system with sufficient energy flowing into it for evolution to succeed. If that were so, you could just stand right behind a jet engine as the aircraft prepares for takeoff, absorb that blast of energy, and evolve to a higher life form. In reality, of course, you would be incinerated because absorbing energy without a mechanism to convert it to a useful form and employ it is destructive or useless. The mechanism must be very specific. Sticking food in your ear will not work; it must go into your mouth and through the digestive system. And the mechanism must be in place and functioning first, before energy is added, or the energy is wasted. The "open system" ploy is just an attempt to avoid dealing with the Second Law because the Law prohibits any functioning biological mechanism from falling together by pure chance, without assistance or plan, using only the properties of matter.

Once again evos relying on chance. Such great faith


Take it from a physicist - you don't understand the 2LoT. Come back when you do.
 
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AV1611VET

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there is zero value in this conversation. too bad. another mind dipped in kool aide.
Hespera, it would be nice if you took Cabal's advice here, wouldn't it?
Word to the not-so-wise, can the sarcasm, aside from sounding incredibly arrogant, any point you might have (I'm being charitable here) is getting lost amidst it all.
In addition, you may want to drop those lines about Kool-Aid --- there was no Kool-Aid in Jonestown.
 
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Cabal

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Hespera, it would be nice if you took Cabal's advice here, wouldn't it?

In addition, you may want to drop those lines about Kool-Aid --- there was no Kool-Aid in Jonestown.

I didn't personally say anything about Kool-Aid. But I do at least expect when creationists come into a thread and attempt to sway people with their point of view they be clear, concise, well punctuated and don't intersperse their ideas with "hahahahahahaha", and ignore any replies to their "points".

Let's just summarise the above and say, I hold them to a higher standard. Most of the evolutionists in this thread at least attempted to give a decent response to thomas anderson's points, although given the general juvenility of his writing style that was a generous offering at best.
 
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Thomas Anderson

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Isn't funny that when you dont really have an argument that you try and turn the tables as if I dont know what I am talking about. No clue as to how ToE works.....please fill me in......but dont use hypatheticals, could of or probably....facts.Transitional fossil please ....your faith would DEMAND thousands of them....there are NONE.....please help me understand what it was like millions of years ago before we were fully formed...ahhhhhh thats unfair...you have NO IDEA and NO PROOF....sorry about that lets just disregard the necessity for proof for your faith and just accept some theory that "this is probably what happened so accept it at that" Man I am sooo glad I have the bible to back my faith . You know what sounds they heard in the forest for millions of years...listen...thump, thump, thump, thump thump thump thump ....THUMP...and this continued on for millions of years until one day the last loudest thump was not heard. The lizard finallly grew wings and took flight and didn,t hit the ground with the last THUMP....common sense tingling????...my what faith. I know it makes you angry when i tell you you need faith to believe your religion....but its true...where ae the facts...still have not heard ANY substantial proof from any of you.........just probalies, maybes..and could ofs..the typical answers from a faith in chance
 
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Cabal

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Isn't funny that when you dont really have an argument that you try and turn the tables as if I dont know what I am talking about. No clue as to how ToE works.....please fill me in......but dont use hypatheticals, could of or probably....facts.Transitional fossil please ....your faith would DEMAND thousands of them....there are NONE.....please help me understand what it was like millions of years ago before we were fully formed...ahhhhhh thats unfair...you have NO IDEA and NO PROOF....sorry about that lets just disregard the necessity for proof for your faith and just accept some theory that "this is probably what happened so accept it at that" Man I am sooo glad I have the bible to back my faith . You knew what sounds they heard in the forest for millions of years...listen...thump, thump, thump, thump thump thump thump ....THUMP...and this continued on for millions of years until one day the last loudest thump was not heard. The lizard finallly grew wings and took flight and didn,t hit the ground with the last THUMP....common sense tingling????...my what faith. I know it makes you angry when i tell you you need faith to believe your religion....but its true...where ae the facts...still have not heard ANY substantial proof from any of you.........just probalies, maybes..and could ofs..the typical answers from a faith in chance

Why should anyone bother answering your questions when you go and "answer" them with sarcastic blather on the same line? You clearly don't want to know, otherwise you wouldn't be posting in this style.
 
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AV1611VET

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But I do at least expect when creationists come into a thread and attempt to sway people with their point of view they be clear, concise, well punctuated and don't intersperse their ideas with "hahahahahahaha", and ignore any replies to their "points".
It's too bad we have to explain anything --- given that it's so simple to understand --- not to mention that it's well-documented on the very first page of the #1 best Seller of all time, ever.
 
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Cabal

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It's too bad we have to explain anything --- given that it's so simple to understand --- not to mention that it's well-documented on the very first page of the #1 best Seller of all time, ever.

Well ain't that something? Guess that makes the opening barrage of "hahahahahaa LOL evilution is a religion" so common to most creationists without an inkling of science knowledge doubly unnecessary then!
 
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AV1611VET

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Well ain't that something? Guess that makes the opening barrage of "hahahahahaa LOL evilution is a religion" so common to most creationists without an inkling of science knowledge doubly unnecessary then!
Cabal, are you telling me that you (of all people) still don't understand where the Bible exposes evolution:

  1. As a form of worship?
  2. As an "invention" --- not a "discovery"?
I can understand an atheist not understanding --- but a Christian?
 
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Hespera

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AV sez:

It's too bad we have to explain anything --- given that it's so simple to understand --- not to mention that it's well-documented on the very first page of the #1 best Seller of all time, ever.


Hespera sez:

You dont have to explain anything about what it says. It would be ever so nice if you would quit explaining it. it is incredibly simple to understand, and that is no doubt part of why it appeals to some people.

Its also real simple to understand that it is all words, just words. If it was real, it would match with what a person can walk around and observe. But it doesnt.

THAT is not so simple for you guys to explain, tho it is in fact incredibly easy to explain. That is why we get stories about water canopies and high speed tectonics and different past states and water tanks with rims miraculously related to the value of Pi.

Its also why we get all this vop* posting, a big mush of half digested nonsense that is supposed to prove the evoluiton cant be true. But only proves the total ignorance of the poster.

if the book did have some bearing on reality it would be all right there to see. Here are the observed facts; here is what the bible says; all clear simple and logical.

But nope. nobody can ever find fact one to back the creation side. Thats why we get these vop screeds, the hahahaha, sarcasm, and all the rest. Its all a smokescreen for got no facts.


*that is reverse peristalis on paper
 
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