How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

[archierieus]

There sure are a lot of mean spirited posts in this thread

Then help set a proper tone. This I say to all of us.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Do you believe that Jesus wants his followers to be one as he and the father are one?

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is leading the church into all truth?

Do you believe that if we reject those sent by Jesus we are rejecting him?

Who are those today?

 

[Rick Otto]

Always through the laying on of hands by a successor of the apostles.

That just isn't true.

 

[archierieus]

Do you believe that Jesus wants his followers to be one as he and the father are one?

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is leading the church into all truth?

Scripturally, 'the church' is His people. Jesus promised the Spirit to lead His people, who are faithful to Him and to the Bible.

Do you believe that if we reject those sent by Jesus we are rejecting him?

Without a doubt. God sends fellow believers with a word of encouragement, a word of knowledge or wisdom, He works through pastors, evangelists, teachers of righteousness--and through the poor and needy who need our help. All of them are sent by Jesus.

Dave

 

[chestertonrules]

That just isn't true.

Do you have evidence of a different ordination ceremony or practice?

 

[Hentenza]

That's why we are not to lean on our own understanding.

Jesus wants us unified. We won't be unified if we all believe that God is leading us in different directions.

This is why Jesus founded his Church on a single person and why he gave Peter alone the keys to the Kingdom.

No Hierarchy=No Unity.

"That they may be one as you and I are one"

Jesus and the Father don't disagree about anything.

I want you to chew on something for a bit. Think about this. It is the RC claim that the RC is the one true church established by Christ himself in 33ad. It is also the RC's claim that the teachings of the RC church are infallible and can not fall into error. It is also the claim of the RC that other churches are incomplete and do not have the fullness of truth.

Now, the reformation finally occurred in the 1500's after many many years of smaller groups requesting that the RC reform but being squashed by big brother using the big "heresy" death penalty stick. Many Popes, bishops, and other RC leaders fell into great error during the middle ages and before. Many Popes, bishops, and other ecclesiastical positions were for sale and nepotism was rampant. Secular interests of money, land, and power were abundant. The issue of "absenteism" was a great point of contention as was the church taxation of the poor in the papal estates which were substantial. The selling of divine pardons was specially heinous. These issues came to a head and resulted in the reformation. God has seen and is fully aware of what his "c"hurch on earth has done and will do.

I humbly ask you to mull this over honestly. No measure of non supported claims by the some RC's here is going to force anyone to agree with them. Some RC folks here either can come down to the level of our human fallenness which affects all of us or continue to arbitrarily deny fallibility. It's up to you (general you).

 

[chestertonrules]

Scripturally, 'the church' is His people. Jesus promised the Spirit to lead His people, who are faithful to Him and to the Bible.

Jesus promised his disciples that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth. He then said that if anyone rejects the disciples, they are rejecting him.

Do you have any evidence that the early Church fathers rejected the teachings of the disciples?

Without a doubt. God sends fellow believers with a word of encouragement, a word of knowledge or wisdom, He works through pastors, evangelists, teachers of righteousness--and through the poor and needy who need our help. All of them are sent by Jesus.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

[archierieus]

That just isn't true.

Rick, you do know that the Mormons are BIG on the laying on of hands? Their missionaries are called 'elders,' and they are strong on apostolic authority conferred by the laying on of hands.

 

[Rhamiel]

I think the biggest problem would be the role of the priesthood
the Catholic, EO, OO, Anglican, maybe even Lutherans, might be able to work something out, but the Reformed Churches? that would be much more porblematic

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Rick, you do know that the Mormons are BIG on the laying on of hands? Their missionaries are called 'elders,' and they are strong on apostolic authority conferred by the laying on of hands.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7284252&highlight=mormons
Are JW's and Mormons Christians?

 

[chestertonrules]

I want you to chew on something for a bit. Think about this. It is the RC claim that the RC is the one true church established by Christ himself in 33ad. It is also the RC's claim that the teachings of the RC church are infallible and can not fall into error. It is also the claim of the RC that other churches are incomplete and do not have the fullness of truth.

Now, the reformation finally occurred in the 1500's after many many years of smaller groups requesting that the RC reform but being squashed by big brother using the big "heresy" death penalty stick. Many Popes, bishops, and other RC leaders fell into great error during the middle ages and before. Many Popes, bishops, and other ecclesiastical positions were for sale and nepotism was rampant. Secular interests of money, land, and power were abundant. The issue of "absenteism" was a great point of contention as was the church taxation of the poor in the papal estates which were substantial. The selling of divine pardons was specially heinous. These issues came to a head and resulted in the reformation. God has seen and is fully aware of what his "c"hurch on earth has done and will do.

I humbly ask you to mull this over honestly. No measure of non supported claims by the some RC's here is going to force anyone to agree with them. Some RC folks here either can come down to the level of our human fallenness which affects all of us or continue to arbitrarily deny fallibility. It's up to you (general you).

Nothing personal, but your question is full of misinformation and conjecture and has little to do with history or the teachings of the Church.

You are repeating common misperceptions, many that I once held.

 

[archierieus]

Do you have any evidence that the early Church fathers rejected the teachings of the disciples?

The process began some time after the apostolic church. Peter and Paul warned against it, and history records the sad story of betrayal of sacred trusts and compromise with the world in order to gain power and acceptability. The book Faith of Our Fathers records how the Church brought in pagan rituals in order attract the heathen. Later, of course, the Church came to hold tradition as higher than the Bible and claimed, indeed, to be above the Bible. The exaltation of man and man's traditions over God's holy Word is a rejection of the Christ's teaching, and the very thing Jesus condemned the Pharisees for.

Dave

 

[katholikos]

That just isn't true.

yes it is

 

[Rick Otto]

The theory about passing on power of sacramental consecration faces the serious obstacle that the New Testament does not show the Twelve laying hands on bishops either as successors or as auxiliaries in administering sacraments.
There can be no successors to the Twelve. They finished their foundational objectives & await their eschatological roles.

 

[Rhamiel]

That just isn't true.

are you sure? if you could post some histry to back that up I would be very greatful

Rick, you do know that the Mormons are BIG on the laying on of hands? Their missionaries are called 'elders,' and they are strong on apostolic authority conferred by the laying on of hands.

LOL, it is not our fault that the Mormons want to copy us, I mean, even if you think the Catholic Church was not formed untill AD 325 or AD 1054 or even AD 1545, you have to admit that we were around way before the Mormons

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Nothing personal, but your question is full of misinformation and conjecture and has little to do with history or the teachings of the Church.

You are repeating common misperceptions, many that I once held.

That is why we have this board

http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=84
Christian History

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Talk about slander and gibberish! Get a grip.

Hey chester.....ease up........

 

[Rhamiel]

I want you to chew on something for a bit. Think about this. It is the RC claim that the RC is the one true church established by Christ himself in 33ad. It is also the RC's claim that the teachings of the RC church are infallible and can not fall into error. It is also the claim of the RC that other churches are incomplete and do not have the fullness of truth.

Now, the reformation finally occurred in the 1500's after many many years of smaller groups requesting that the RC reform but being squashed by big brother using the big "heresy" death penalty stick. Many Popes, bishops, and other RC leaders fell into great error during the middle ages and before. Many Popes, bishops, and other ecclesiastical positions were for sale and nepotism was rampant. Secular interests of money, land, and power were abundant. The issue of "absenteism" was a great point of contention as was the church taxation of the poor in the papal estates which were substantial. The selling of divine pardons was specially heinous. These issues came to a head and resulted in the reformation. God has seen and is fully aware of what his "c"hurch on earth has done and will do.

I humbly ask you to mull this over honestly. No measure of non supported claims by the some RC's here is going to force anyone to agree with them. Some RC folks here either can come down to the level of our human fallenness which affects all of us or continue to arbitrarily deny fallibility. It's up to you (general you).

there have been many reforms in the Catholic Church, the Franciscans have been a major force for reform ever since the begining of the order

 

[Rick Otto]

The Twelve claim their authority from Jesus & there is no mention of Him laying hands on any of them when He chose them.

 

[Hentenza]

Nothing personal, but your question is full of misinformation and conjecture and has little to do with history or the teachings of the Church.

You are repeating common misperceptions, many that I once held.

Brother,

I have studied church history extensively from many perspectives and points of view including one year of RC seminary. You might have a point of argument regarding how some interpret history but you can not deny historical fact. Tell me, how did Calvin make a living in his early days?

I am not here to argue church history but to tell you that those that live in glass houses should not be throwing stones.