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Race relations in the US. Are they ethical, moral?

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MaxP

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I know, touchy subject. But I think we can honestly discuss these things without cries of racism.

I am speaking specifically to black people who think they should get some kind of reparation or advantage for being black, and those who are hyper sensitive to themselves being black.
I don't think ANY special privileges should be granted based on the color of your skin.
As Martin Luther King said, a man should be judged on the content of his character, not the color of his skin. To maintain reparations or preferential treatment just maintains a division and distinction between races. There shouldn't be one. If we want to right wrongs, we need to go into the disproportionately black inner city and fix THAT horrible situation.

Thoughts on the white - black relations or race relations in general?
 

Beanieboy

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concise-600x471.png
 
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MaxP

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Haha beanie, I figured you'd come in here with that. That's actually what inspired me to post this thread.
See, thing is though, the black man's not in the dirt. He has the same opportunity, and actuality, as the white man, the majority of the time. While it's true the rich man is often white, I'm not rich(and not black or white). And the majority of whites are not rich.
 
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Beanieboy

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The white man got rich on the black man's back.
The white man advanced by means of racism.

And now any time anyone talks about blacks trying to level the playing field, they are "getting special treatment."

Special treatment is ok for white people though.

Michigan State gives points for law students that apply who are black, trying to level the field.

That's unfair! But white people getting in on legacy from their white fathers that had white privilege - that's is fair.

Educate yourself about White Privilege and Seeing Whiteness.

http://mmcisaac.faculty.asu.edu/emc598ge/Unpacking.html
Daily effects of white privilege

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.
 
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MaxP

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The white man got rich on the black man's back.
The white man advanced by means of racism.

And now any time anyone talks about blacks trying to level the playing field, they are "getting special treatment."

Special treatment is ok for white people though.

Michigan State gives points for law students that apply who are black, trying to level the field.

That's unfair! But white people getting in on legacy from their white fathers that had white privilege - that's is fair.

Educate yourself about White Privilege and Seeing Whiteness.

http://mmcisaac.faculty.asu.edu/emc598ge/Unpacking.html
What do you think Martin Luther King would have said?

The whole civil right movement was to gain equality. They wanted to eliminate racial distinction. Why do you propagate that?
Should we pay for the crimes of our ancestors? Or should we work to make sure they never happen again?
And this country isn't as founded on slaves as you might think, especially the North, but that's another thread.
 
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Tenka

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I don't think ANY special privileges should be granted based on the color of your skin.
Just disadvantages then?

Think about it, for hundreds of years there have been huge privileges granted based on skin colour, specifically, white. Whites had all the power, all the land, all the guns, all the education, they made all the rules and enjoyed all the benefits. When we recently decided everyone was equal under the law it didn't make everyone equal.
Whites were still sitting on the accumulated benefit of hundreds of years on charge and blacks had to start from scratch in a society that in many cases deeply resented them.
You can't just 'catch up' in a few decades on your own.

Should we pay for the crimes of our ancestors?
Should you enjoy the benefits of those crimes? Is that more fair?
 
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QuakerOats

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I have mixed feelings about the state of race relations because on one hand, giving one race of people privilege over another is unfair, even if that one race is a minority. Ideally, no race should be above another. However, this world is not an ideal place, at least not at present, and realistically, racism still exists and I think allowing minorities like African-Americans some privileges over the white man is not entirely unethical, given that fact. I do hope that one day they'll no longer be of need though, so to speak.
 
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I have mixed feelings about the state of race relations because on one hand, giving one race of people privilege over another is unfair, even if that one race is a minority. Ideally, no race should be above another. However, this world is not an ideal place, at least not at present, and realistically, racism still exists and I think allowing minorities like African-Americans some privileges over the white man is not entirely unethical, given that fact. I do hope that one day they'll no longer be of need though, so to speak.
It's not making Black Americans more privileged than White Americans, it's equaling the playing field where it needs the be equaled. For instance, when a company is proven to discriminate against employees based on race, gender, etc they are given quotas they must meet. As for college, one should be more concerned about the amount of unqualified people who get in because of their families affluence, and less about those let in because they are minorities. (as the ones who get in because of money outnumber the 'minorities' twofold)
 
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QuakerOats

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It's not making Black Americans more privileged than White Americans, it's equaling the playing field where it needs the be equaled. For instance, when a company is proven to discriminate against employees based on race, gender, etc they are given quotas they must meet. As for college, one should be more concerned about the amount of unqualified people who get in because of their families affluence, and less about those let in because they are minorities. (as the ones who get in because of money outnumber the 'minorities' twofold)
I agree, and I didn't mean to insinuate that it makes blacks more privileged, only that we extend to them said privilege because it offers them a chance at a level playing field in a less than ideal world. I wonder about things like all-black schools and such though, do you think it's pushing things too far?
 
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I agree, and I didn't mean to insinuate that it makes blacks more privileged, only that we extend to them said privilege because it offers them a chance at a level playing field in a less than ideal world. I wonder about things like all-black schools and such though, do you think it's pushing things too far?
I've seen a couple on the news. It takes inner city minority kids, educates them, gives them discipline, and teaches them respect. This is a solution to a problem that's been plaguing the black community for decades: crime, drop out rates, and disrespect. Good stuff. However, if this is 'going too far', then they're all going too far. There are schools for Muslim kids, Christian kids, Transgender/Homosexual kids, Jewish children, all girl schools, all boy schools etc. Some people feel more comfortable in an environment with others they can relate with on a certain level. There's nothing wrong with it.
 
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Garyzenuf

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When we recently decided everyone was equal under the law it didn't make everyone equal.
Whites were still sitting on the accumulated benefit of hundreds of years on charge and blacks had to start from scratch in a society that in many cases deeply resented them.
You can't just 'catch up' in a few decades on your own.




I remember seeing an 'All in the Family' episode mid-70's where Mike lost out on a teaching job(?) because they needed to hire a black teacher instead of a white. I thought at the time that seemed unfair, but they went on to say they believed the pendulam had been so far in one direction it must be tilted in the other to balance things out. I wondered how long that was going to take, 35 years doesn't seemed to have done the trick.


Best guess is it's going to take many more. :)

*
 
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PETE_

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You didn't even watch a video that someone found for you?
I can't learn it for you.

Excellent video, by the way.
I am not uneducated on the issue. I am involved in it heavily since I live in Memphis(where everything is a racial issue)

I have an adopted son who is black and own my own small business and all of our employess are black.

If you think someone has gotten a raw deal get out there and help them get a step up, not just run around talking about how bad others have treated people in the past.
 
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QuakerOats

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I've seen a couple on the news. It takes inner city minority kids, educates them, gives them discipline, and teaches them respect. This is a solution to a problem that's been plaguing the black community for decades: crime, drop out rates, and disrespect. Good stuff.
I only asked because I didn't really know much about them, but if they're helping, then that's a good thing.

However, if this is 'going too far', then they're all going too far. There are schools for Muslim kids, Christian kids, Transgender/Homosexual kids, Jewish children, all girl schools, all boy schools etc. Some people feel more comfortable in an environment with others they can relate with on a certain level. There's nothing wrong with it.
True, although I wasn't aware that there are GLBT schools. Interesting.

This all brings up another question for me, though. I'm left wondering how much race is related to culture, even within America itself.
 
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