I reject the creeds

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Not because I think there is neccessarily inaccurate statments in any particular creed, but because I don't believe that a creed has really anything to do with whether or not you are redeemed by Christ.

thoughts?

What about these:

"I believe in Jesus"
"I believe that Jesus is the Savior"
"I believe that Jesus is Lord"

Do you reject those creeds?




.

 

[Uphill Battle]

no. But those are statements, not creeds in and of themselves.

 

[tadoflamb]

hmm. doesn't sound like me at all.

but thanks for the attempt to pigeonhole me in a section you can readily mock.

Feelin' a little tender today, Yoobee?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

no. But those are statements, not creeds in and of themselves.

Creed, from the Latin "credo" It means "I believe."
ANYTIME you make a statement of faith, from "I believe the world is sorta round" to "My mother makes the best pies" to "Jesus is Lord" - those are all creeds.

They are found ALL OVER the Bible. "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God" is one of my favorite creeds.


Blessings to you!


Pax


- Josiah





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[WarriorAngel]

Not because I think there is neccessarily inaccurate statments in any particular creed, but because I don't believe that a creed has really anything to do with whether or not you are redeemed by Christ.

thoughts?

That you can do whatever you want....

Personally a Creed is like glue. It holds a community together and if questions arise, it is an easy reference.

But hey - each to their own.

Merry Christmas [still the season] and HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What about these:

"I believe in Jesus"
"I believe that Jesus is the Savior"
"I believe that Jesus is Lord"

Do you reject those creeds?

.

What about I believe in the Resurrection of the dead

Luke 2:34 And blesses them, Simon, and said toward Mariam, the mother of Him "behold! this-one is set/lying into a Fall and Ressurection/ana-stasin <386> in many inthe Israel and into a Sign spoken against"-- [Ezekiel 37 "valley of bones]

Reve 20:5 The rest of the dead-ones not live until should be being finished the thousand years. This the Resurrection/ana-stasiV <386> the First/prwth <4413>.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Of course.

I think it's already been misunderstood though.


the POINT of the OP is, I don't disagree with the contents of this creed, or another, but I "reject them" due to the fact that I don't think creedal adherence has any bearing on salvation. I don't think anyone has to "sign their name on this dotted line" to be Christian.

so far, I've been likened to Universalists.... wonder what's next.

I would agree that creedal adherence is necessary either, and I do not think scriptures are necessary as well. But we have been given these things for a reason and so I place improtance on creeds and the scriptures, for me they have been very useful in my struggles to stay on the good path to Heaven.

But if your theological thread is about the necessity of the creeds for salvation then I agree. I also submit that scripture is not necessary either. Only the grace and mercy of God through the sacrifice of Jesus and that we have the law on our hearts even if not fully on our minds and we live this law, That is necessary for salvation (IMHO).

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I know some Christians who have never HEARD of the Nicene creed.

I suppose in some peoples books, that would make them quasi or non Christian.

is "adherence" to the creed even remotely neccessary?

what, if anything, does the creed do to impact your position with God?

I agree that ignorance plays a role and plays into culpability.

But for the Christian who is knowledgable of such things and knows of them then I see where they are required to understand and submit themselves eventually to the judgment of God based on their acceptance and/or rejection of such creed(s). Culpability in knowledge that ignorance is forgiven.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

other than the word Catholic.[/font]

The word "catholic" in the Creed means "universal" -- it is not referring to the Roman Catholic Church. The Nicene Creed was written at a time when there were no denominations; there was just one Church. This is why the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Anglican Churches use the term when they recite the creed.

well... kinda.

Although the Old Testament books were available, the Bible canon as we know it did not come along until the Council of Carthage. Remember, the Bible did not fall from the sky in leatherbound form with the words of Christ in red. It was put together by the Church Fathers in 397.

The Creed was never intended to supercede scriptural authority or to be a salvific point. It was written prior to the formation of the Bible canon, and its intent was to be a concise statement of Christian beliefs. Remember, one of the reasons the First Ecumenical Council of Nicea was formed by Emperor Constantine was to combat Arian heresy. By writing the Creed, it became a litmus test of sorts to say "this is what Christian beliefs are. If you are outside these beliefs, you are not a Christian." It asks the questions of "Do you believe in the Trinity?" "Do you believe in the dual nature of Christ?" "Do you believe in the virgin birth?" "Do you believe in the death and resurrection of Christ?" To all these things a true Christian must answer in the affirmative "I believe."

 

[wayseer]

Not because I think there is neccessarily inaccurate statments in any particular creed, but because I don't believe that a creed has really anything to do with whether or not you are redeemed by Christ.

thoughts?

Oh dear. Be prepared to have the your post deleted. Mine was for challenging the creed.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Creed, from the Latin "credo" It means "I believe."
ANYTIME you make a statement of faith, from "I believe the world is sorta round" to "My mother makes the best pies" to "Jesus is Lord" - those are all creeds.

They are found ALL OVER the Bible. "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God" is one of my favorite creeds.


Blessings to you!


Pax


- Josiah

technically, I suppose. I am refering to the actual, formal creeds.

I would agree that creedal adherence is necessary either, and I do not think scriptures are necessary as well. But we have been given these things for a reason and so I place improtance on creeds and the scriptures, for me they have been very useful in my struggles to stay on the good path to Heaven.

But if your theological thread is about the necessity of the creeds for salvation then I agree. I also submit that scripture is not necessary either. Only the grace and mercy of God through the sacrifice of Jesus and that we have the law on our hearts even if not fully on our minds and we live this law, That is necessary for salvation (IMHO).

I agree that ignorance plays a role and plays into culpability.

But for the Christian who is knowledgable of such things and knows of them then I see where they are required to understand and submit themselves eventually to the judgment of God based on their acceptance and/or rejection of such creed(s). Culpability in knowledge that ignorance is forgiven.

no. They do not. Their rejection or acceptance of CREEDS have absolutely nothing to do with the Judgement of God.

The word "catholic" in the Creed means "universal" -- it is not referring to the Roman Catholic Church. The Nicene Creed was written at a time when there were no denominations; there was just one Church. This is why the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Anglican Churches use the term when they recite the creed.

that's why I capitalized the word.

Although the Old Testament books were available, the Bible canon as we know it did not come along until the Council of Carthage. Remember, the Bible did not fall from the sky in leatherbound form with the words of Christ in red. It was put together by the Church Fathers in 397.

yeah. I know. But the scriptures themselves preexist the creeds.

The Creed was never intended to supercede scriptural authority or to be a salvific point. It was written prior to the formation of the Bible canon, and its intent was to be a concise statement of Christian beliefs.

except it's been used as a hammer to say to people whether or not they are acceptable. (read: terms of use on this site as an example.) I am not challenging their RIGHT to do so, their site, their rules, I merely use it as a common example.

Remember, one of the reasons the First Ecumenical Council of Nicea was formed by Emperor Constantine was to combat Arian heresy. By writing the Creed, it became a litmus test of sorts to say "this is what Christian beliefs are. If you are outside these beliefs, you are not a Christian." It asks the questions of "Do you believe in the Trinity?" "Do you believe in the dual nature of Christ?" "Do you believe in the virgin birth?" "Do you believe in the death and resurrection of Christ?" To all these things a true Christian must answer in the affirmative "I believe."

then lets make it more about that, and less about signing on a dotted line.

that's all it's really turned out to be in the long run.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Feelin' a little tender today, Yoobee?

no more than usual, just calling the shot.

Oh dear. Be prepared to have the your post deleted. Mine was for challenging the creed.

no problem.... it's not like it's an alien concept to me.

 

[nephilimiyr]

How is this related to Theology?

You think discussion on the creeds has nothing to do with theology? And why not!

 

[nephilimiyr]

Not because I think there is neccessarily inaccurate statments in any particular creed, but because I don't believe that a creed has really anything to do with whether or not you are redeemed by Christ.

thoughts?

That isn't the purpose for creeds though. In order to be redeemed by Christ you have to get to know God.

The arguement can be made that Creeds can help people get to know who He is but my opinion is if you want to get to know God in a personal way, read the Bible and talk to him.

 

[nephilimiyr]

You would make a great Unitarian Universalist.

This is what happens when people judge others with little information. They start placing labels on people, or the ever so innocent suggestion of labels.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

yeah. I know. But the scriptures themselves preexist the creeds.

And? Doesn't change the validity of the Creed.

except it's been used as a hammer to say to people whether or not they are acceptable.

That was part of their intent; to drill out heresy. As I said, they are a litmus test of sorts. Is it critical to recite them daily? No. What is critical is to believe in what it says.

then lets make it more about that, and less about signing on a dotted line. that's all it's really turned out to be in the long run.

Who's making you sign on a dotted line?

When we sing the Creed during the Liturgy or during our Morning prayers, we sing it as an affirmation of what we believe in. It is a refutal of heresy and a confirmation of what is true. There is an expression "as we pray, so we believe." That is why we recite the Creed. To affirm our belief in these truths.

I guess my question to you is "Why does the Creed bother you?"

We've already established it doesn't supercede scripture and it's not a salvific point. So what's the problem?

 

[nephilimiyr]

I know some Christians who have never HEARD of the Nicene creed.

I suppose in some peoples books, that would make them quasi or non Christian.

I don't know about that. I've never met anyone here or in my neck of the woods say they believe that if you never heard of the Nicene Creed means you're a non-Christian.

is "adherence" to the creed even remotely neccessary?

what, if anything, does the creed do to impact your position with God?

See now you're talking about the purpose of creeds. The purpose of creeds is not to bring you into right standing with God but in right standing with the church who wrote the creed.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Eegads this coming from the church that says muslims are in the salvation picture...

Maybe I'm ignorant about what exactly you are talking about but aren't all men and women around the world in the salvation picture? After all, Jesus came to save the world, not just certain people in it. If that is true, then we all, including Muslims, in the salvation picture.

I might add, there's alot of them being converted now.

 

[simonthezealot]

Your post is downright offensive! Threatening violence against another member because you disagree with him?

Where are the mods??!!!

He never said the Creed was God's word. Furthermore, every part of the Nicene Creed can be found IN the Bible.

Not to mention, the Creed existed before the Bible did!

Jack is a mod and a friend lighten up, its a chuck norris bruce lee joke.
Which verision of the filoque is found in the bible???
NO the creed did NOT exist before the written word of God.
Jack did say it was a part of Christianity as the bible is...The creeds mean nothing to anyone outside of the 2 tradition based denominations.

 

[simonthezealot]

Maybe I'm ignorant about what exactly you are talking about but aren't all men and women around the world in the salvation picture? After all, Jesus came to save the world, not just certain people in it. If that is true, then we all, including Muslims, in the salvation picture.

I might add, there's alot of them being converted now.

It suggests a bit more here...look
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Amen to the massive conversions...