heymikey80
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
trustgod, I read the bookends of this thread. At risk of restating something that went before, I think it's appropriate to examine a few things.
You say that analytically you find Christianity the most plausible. That's very interesting to me, as I followed the same path. I also learned not to trust my own feelings and personhood, because essentially my culture rips personhood limb from limb, and doesn't treat people as human beings, but as power-pieces to be collected. By adulthood I had suppressed my personhood.
I am deeply involved in scientific inquiry. Science has quite a hard time defining personhood, too. They essentially punt: a "person" exists when a majority of people agree that a "person" exists. People seem pretty capable of recognizing the cues to personal existence, interest, and involvement. But it's tough to put in a bottle and test.
Christianity deals with God as a Person -- really as more than a person on human terms, we see Him communicated to the human mind as three Persons -- though one God. But let's back down the issue to personhood, as that seems to be the sticking point.
When you look at the actions of the God of Christianity -- Covenant, Incarnation, Crucifixion, Indwelling, Judgment, Glorification -- most of these only occur when the initiator is a Person. So inasmuch as personhood can be defined and recognized in some objective manner, the Christian God's Personhood is fairly straightforward.
But then it comes to your personal relationship with Him. You've made the analytic inquiries into whether God exists, and come out in the affirmative. You've examined God's personhood to some extent, and the roads point to yes, He's a person.
Why's it so important, you being in a personal relationship with God?
Well, I have a question. Are you relying on the factualness of God's existence to somehow ease your move into the next life? How is knowing God's existence going to help you? "You say there's one God. Great! But even the demons believe that, and shudder."
God does expect more than a belief about Himself. He expects belief in Himself. Can I use a synonym for "belief" to clarify this? God expects you to rely in Him, personally. Not just rely on facts like His existence. He's said things like "The kingdom of God is like this: relying in Me like a little child." Children don't rely in their parents as caregivers, they don't think objectively about parents bringing home food and sustaining shelter -- though all that's true. Children rely in their parents by relating with them, seeking their approval, enjoying their company, growing as their parents guide them, and loving their parents. It's lots of things. It's a personal relationship though (at least when parental relationships go right).
That does admittedly mean, you speak out to Him in prayer. If He exists, He's infinite. He can pay attention to His whole finite world all at once. Even to you.
And if you rely in Him, personally, you'll want to know how He wants your life to go. You'll tell Him about the things that your life is going through -- with every expectation that He is responding to them. Why tell Him? It's meant to make you aware that He matters to these decisions in your life. Of course He already knows about your concerns (and the Apostles already pointed this out, btw). But you have to know He knows. Why? Because otherwise, you go through life thinking you don't matter to Him. You go through life thinking He's not aware of your problems, or really doesn't care about them. You go through life concluding God's not personally involved in your life. When He is.
So prayer does not start out as a result of your personal relationship with God. Prayer actually reinforces and grows your personal relationship with Him. And that's why it feels so strange at first.
For me, God caused the tiniest thing to occur early on in my life with Him to acknowledge He was there. It only happened once, and to be sure it so convinced me that I was scared to ask Him again. I don't know who He decides to do that with, but it's also worth a try. And I'll tell you, alone even a small miracle isn't enough to keep you aware of God. It takes constant input from other people for me to feel confirmed -- not apologetics, not Bible exegesis will help here -- to recognize He's involved in my life.
Another resource that has helped me immensely is a book, "Love Walked Among Us". It's not built to teach you apologetics. But it'll open your eyes to the kinds of personal, relational things God was about when He walked among us. The sample chapters may help you see if this book is for you.
(I'm not affiliated with this ministry in any way other than buying its books.)
At this season when we celebrate the time when God came down to be with us, Personally, I hope this can help in some small way.
You say that analytically you find Christianity the most plausible. That's very interesting to me, as I followed the same path. I also learned not to trust my own feelings and personhood, because essentially my culture rips personhood limb from limb, and doesn't treat people as human beings, but as power-pieces to be collected. By adulthood I had suppressed my personhood.
I am deeply involved in scientific inquiry. Science has quite a hard time defining personhood, too. They essentially punt: a "person" exists when a majority of people agree that a "person" exists. People seem pretty capable of recognizing the cues to personal existence, interest, and involvement. But it's tough to put in a bottle and test.
Christianity deals with God as a Person -- really as more than a person on human terms, we see Him communicated to the human mind as three Persons -- though one God. But let's back down the issue to personhood, as that seems to be the sticking point.
When you look at the actions of the God of Christianity -- Covenant, Incarnation, Crucifixion, Indwelling, Judgment, Glorification -- most of these only occur when the initiator is a Person. So inasmuch as personhood can be defined and recognized in some objective manner, the Christian God's Personhood is fairly straightforward.
But then it comes to your personal relationship with Him. You've made the analytic inquiries into whether God exists, and come out in the affirmative. You've examined God's personhood to some extent, and the roads point to yes, He's a person.
Why's it so important, you being in a personal relationship with God?
Well, I have a question. Are you relying on the factualness of God's existence to somehow ease your move into the next life? How is knowing God's existence going to help you? "You say there's one God. Great! But even the demons believe that, and shudder."
God does expect more than a belief about Himself. He expects belief in Himself. Can I use a synonym for "belief" to clarify this? God expects you to rely in Him, personally. Not just rely on facts like His existence. He's said things like "The kingdom of God is like this: relying in Me like a little child." Children don't rely in their parents as caregivers, they don't think objectively about parents bringing home food and sustaining shelter -- though all that's true. Children rely in their parents by relating with them, seeking their approval, enjoying their company, growing as their parents guide them, and loving their parents. It's lots of things. It's a personal relationship though (at least when parental relationships go right).
That does admittedly mean, you speak out to Him in prayer. If He exists, He's infinite. He can pay attention to His whole finite world all at once. Even to you.
And if you rely in Him, personally, you'll want to know how He wants your life to go. You'll tell Him about the things that your life is going through -- with every expectation that He is responding to them. Why tell Him? It's meant to make you aware that He matters to these decisions in your life. Of course He already knows about your concerns (and the Apostles already pointed this out, btw). But you have to know He knows. Why? Because otherwise, you go through life thinking you don't matter to Him. You go through life thinking He's not aware of your problems, or really doesn't care about them. You go through life concluding God's not personally involved in your life. When He is.
So prayer does not start out as a result of your personal relationship with God. Prayer actually reinforces and grows your personal relationship with Him. And that's why it feels so strange at first.
For me, God caused the tiniest thing to occur early on in my life with Him to acknowledge He was there. It only happened once, and to be sure it so convinced me that I was scared to ask Him again. I don't know who He decides to do that with, but it's also worth a try. And I'll tell you, alone even a small miracle isn't enough to keep you aware of God. It takes constant input from other people for me to feel confirmed -- not apologetics, not Bible exegesis will help here -- to recognize He's involved in my life.
Another resource that has helped me immensely is a book, "Love Walked Among Us". It's not built to teach you apologetics. But it'll open your eyes to the kinds of personal, relational things God was about when He walked among us. The sample chapters may help you see if this book is for you.
(I'm not affiliated with this ministry in any way other than buying its books.)
At this season when we celebrate the time when God came down to be with us, Personally, I hope this can help in some small way.
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