Which creation do creationists want us to believe took place?

[Chalnoth]

Edit: Ah, nevermind, he wasn't serious.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Then how is it, if you have had to learn cartography, AND you have read the Bible, that you made such a rookie mistake? After all, why aren't YOU claiming the Bible speaks of magnetic earth reversal in AD 58?

Wha....????

In addition --- the earth didn't flip in Isaiah's time

I was being generous to include the read from Juvenissun's post. Either way you made an hypothesis but ignored the lack of physical evidence. Good for you.

--- I said it evidently flipped in Nero's time.No, sir, I sure don't --- but and until geologists can earn their pay and conclude that the stones cry out the majesty of Jesus Christ (as Jesus Christ said they would), then they can keep their big fat clipboards out of the Bible.

And I wholly agree scientists don't have much to say about religious beliefs. It's just when the facts as interpretted by literalists such as yourself are at odds with the facts on the ground that the discussion even comes up.

But what does get stuck in my craw is that you think I owe some fealty to your religious beliefs to do my job. I don't "earn my paycheck" drawing your religious conclusions.

YOUR religion has no bearing on my work. Thank you very much. And it shouldn't. I am forced to dispassionately follow the data.

If the stones are screaming anything it's that folks like you ignore everything they actually do say so religion can put the name of God's Only Begotten Son on their "tongues" like a ventriloquist doll.

Why don't you learn what the rocks really say? Believe me, study rocks for a while, learn the chemistry and physics and they say a lot more interesting stuff than your simplified "religious verses".

Here's what you'll need:

1. Petrology Class
2. Mineralogy Class
3. Geochemical Thermodynamics

Here's a list of U.S. Geology Departments by state and university (LINK)

Understand what the rocks look like, what they are made up of, and what they really say before you tell me how I should earn my paycheck verifying your religious doctrine.

Come meet me half-way and tell me all about phase equilibria in metamorphic assemblages. Tell me all about the difference in coordination of calcium ions in aragonite versus calcite.

"Earn your paycheck" by learning about what you are speaking and to whom you are speaking.

And do me the very great favor of appreciating the years I've spent with minerals and mineral phases. As I sit here I suspect I have more rocks scattered across my house and my desk at work than you do, and I've spent more time "listening" to them than you have.

Which of us has spent countless hours hunched over a microscope bearing the pain in their back to read the rock grains? Which of us has spent hours in the summer in a darkened little cave of an office looking at coal and its associated minerals? Which of us has spent countless hours memorizing mineral names and formulae? Which of us has spent years learning and applying mineral surface chemistry? Which of us has spent hours preparing presentations for work about the chemistry, dispersion, and optical behavior of mineral phases?

Which of us actually cares what the rocks really say?

Until then, keep your bible out of science.

 

[BananaSlug]

To be honest, Junenissun, these people are confused, and don't know what to believe.

Be careful, don't forget your drivel could turn somebody away from Christianity who is having a crisis of faith. This craziness of interpreting any verse any way you like but relying on a literal Genesis does not really make much sense.

In rejecting God, they reject anything that gives them a moral compass to lead them in the right direction.

I rejected a moral compass? I'm sure Kent Hovind and Ted Haggard had much better moral compasses than I, a simple atheist. Sorry to burst your bubble but my morality isn't based on a Stone Age book. I do not believe in stoning children.

Their idea of "salvation" comes in the form of a time-release capsule, or living 10 years longer, or even leaving this planet for another one.

Sorry again, but my salvation is knowing that I helped to make a difference in the world and to ensure my children grow up to be upstanding responsible citizens and raise their own children someday.

Their "hope" lies in being cryogenically frozen until someone finds the proverbial Fountain of Youth.

Actually, I would prefer that my consciousness was downloaded into a computer.

They can't tell were they came from, or where they're going --- and it is truly a shame.

We need to pray, bro --- seriously pray for the lost.

Yeah, I was into the whole Christian ordeal. Grew up Southern Baptist, accepted Christ, brought a lot of my friends to Christianity, helped with AWANA, the youth group, mission work, etc. As I grew older something happened though. I read the Bible and it made absolutely no sense except for the fact it was meant for a patriarchal agrarian society. People can believe anything they want to. But denying what science tells us (God created science, didn't he?) because it goes against a literalistic interpretation of Genesis turns a lot of people away. I know it really turned me off.
So remember you YEC's, every time you look in a mirror be glad to know you turned people away from Christ due to your ignorance and arrogance.

 

[AV1611VET]

Good job, AV -- first, you post on your regular level of blather,

Then, you secretly learn something which proves you wrong,

So you invoke Poe's Law after the fact in a desperate attempt to save face.

Take My Poe Challenge, AV -- Convince me that your Magnetic Reversal schtick is in any way, shape, or form different from your usual material.

From exactly one year ago ---QV please.

 

[MoonLancer]

In rejecting God, they reject anything that gives them a moral compass to lead them in the right direction.

for this to be true, christains would statically show lower crime rates then all other groups when they are one of the highest. Too bad facts get in the way of your delusions. Philosophers have pondered the human condition and the rights and wrongs of humanity long before Christianity.

Their idea of "salvation" comes in the form of a time-release capsule, or living 10 years longer, or even leaving this planet for another one.

Yeah, leave it to people who think they are going to be raptured to F the planet for the next generation... Leaving this planet clean and healthy for the next generation is a very noble cause.

Their "hope" lies in being cryogenically frozen until someone finds the proverbial Fountain of Youth.

really? I fear not death nor do i want to live forever, but it will be ironic when you do not.

They can't tell were they came from, or where they're going --- and it is truly a shame.

I always did love a good mystery. their is no shame is admitting the unknown, but their is shame in pretending to know.

We need to pray, bro --- seriously pray for the lost.

If you really REALLY wanted to "save" people, you would have conducted yourself in very different manor altogether. You have successfully deconverted more people then any one else here. thanks!

 

[Nathan Poe]

From exactly one year ago ---QV please.

Ah, so this is simply the one year anniversary of an old joke.

Just for clarity's sake, is "God the Cosmic Janitor cleaning up the evidence of a Flood" an old joke too, or were you serious about that one?

About about "Every star being the house of a separate Angel"? Was that going back a couple of years?

And please tell me "Neptune is a beacon to warn off rogue Angels" was a joke as well -- that one was idiotic even for you.

If we're going to have intelligent discussions with you, AV, it'll be helpful to know when you're jerking our chains.You're proving Poe's Law left, right, and center.

 

[juvenissun]

So remember you YEC's, every time you look in a mirror be glad to know you turned people away from Christ due to your ignorance and arrogance.

Hey, your faith is yours, not mine or AV's. If anyone, anyone made you deviate from your faith, too bad, but it is YOUR LOSS. If I talked to you and I lose my faith because of your arrogance, I am simply stupid.

God can use one more manager who will not be swayed by others. The person could be you.

 

[Chalnoth]

Hey, your faith is yours, not mine or AV's. If anyone, anyone made you deviate from your faith, too bad, but it is YOUR LOSS. If I talked to you and I lose my faith because of your arrogance, I am simply stupid.

God can use one more manager who will not be swayed by others. The person could be you.

I love how you consider religion to be so devoid of accuracy or truth. Why else would you attempt to make your opponents' positions out to be religious ones?

 

[AV1611VET]

If you really REALLY wanted to "save" people, you would have conducted yourself in very different manor altogether. You have successfully deconverted more people then any one else here. thanks!

I hope to Heaven that's not true --- can you name me one person I have deconverted because of my manners?

 

[AV1611VET]

Ah, so this is simply the one year anniversary of an old joke.

By coincidence --- not by design.

Just for clarity's sake, is "God the Cosmic Janitor cleaning up the evidence of a Flood" an old joke too, or were you serious about that one?

I'm serious --- but only because I side with science on this one.

About about "Every star being the house of a separate Angel"? Was that going back a couple of years?

Serious.

And please tell me "Neptune is a beacon to warn off rogue Angels" was a joke as well -- that one was idiotic even for you.

This one is a pet theory of mine --- and a good one --- in my opinion.

If we're going to have intelligent discussions with you, AV, it'll be helpful to know when you're jerking our chains.You're proving Poe's Law left, right, and center.

This is the only one I ever intentionally set out to poe anyone on. I'll admit, I brought it up a second time because I'm tired of people thinking they know everything I've ever said or stood for here, and I wanted to resurrect that poe just to test and see if anyone remembered it from a year ago. People think I'm so dead-set against scientists here, and I'll go overboard to make a point: I'll kiss the feet of a scientist before I kiss the feet of a theologian anyday.

 

[Chalnoth]

I hope to Heaven that's not true --- can you name me one person I have deconverted because of my manners?

If you've helped anybody to deconvert, it wouldn't be because of your manners so much as your irrationality.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you've helped anybody to deconvert, it wouldn't be because of your manners so much as your irrationality.

Thank you --- I realize I'm a little abrasive, but that post unnerved me.

I'll say it again: I hope to Heaven that's not the case.

If it is, I need to leave CF.

 

[Chalnoth]

Thank you --- I realize I'm a little abrasive, but that post unnerved me.

I'll say it again: I hope to Heaven that's not the case.

If it is, I need to leave CF.

Heh. Well, actually, you're in a lose-lose situation. If you leave, then that's one less voice espousing creationism, which makes it easier for the rational side of the debate to gets its point across. If you don't leave, then you're putting yourself up as a poster child for just how ridiculous many creationists are. Take your pick.

 

[AV1611VET]

Heh. Well, actually, you're in a lose-lose situation. If you leave, then that's one less voice espousing creationism, which makes it easier for the rational side of the debate to gets its point across. If you don't leave, then you're putting yourself up as a poster child for just how ridiculous many creationists are. Take your pick.

I'll stick around with the "ridiculous" side ---

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[thaumaturgy]

I'll go overboard to make a point: I'll kiss the feet of a scientist before I kiss the feet of a theologian anyday.

You know, AV, I honestly don't see that in your general approach.

Your "love" of scientists has so many strings attached that you sound like you'd like to bind scientists with all of them.

I'm serious here: I see you tell us how you think Scientists are some gift from God and now you say you'd kiss the feet of a scientist before a theologian, but then you turn around and say "Science can take a hike" when it disagrees with your interpretation of the Bible.

But the real irony of that stance is that that is precisely how science doesn't work.

Science works precisely because it is a dispassionate assessment of the data. If it says something you disagree with it, the rules of the game say that you can't just jettison it for that one little part.

Science works because it isn't a buffet.

Here's the real challenge: will you kiss the gnarled, blistered supparating feet of science after its waded through the thornbushes, pricked and bleeding or will you kiss the soft, pampered feet of the theologian if you are given a choice?

I suspect I know which choice you'll make when push comes to shove.

 

[tanzanos]

God can use one more manager who will not be swayed by others. The person could be you.

My, My; Another one who knows what God wants.

So God; an omnipotent being, capable of creating the universe needs Managers

Lets all play make believe; now lets pretend we are all leprechauns.........

 

[AV1611VET]

You know, AV, I honestly don't see that in your general approach.

That's because you're myopic --- and I don't mean this as an insult.

You only see one side of me, Thaumaturgy --- the side that compares science to the Scriptures, and refuses to let science contradict the Scriptures.

It's like if I had a robot programmed to seek out and destroy mice in the area, and someone who doesn't know this sees this robot going around zapping mice and thinking it is programmed to destroy all Rodentia or something.

Then it sees it pass up a Hyrax (if that's a rodent), and can't understand why my robot is "schizophrenic".

 

[juvenissun]

My, My; Another one who knows what God wants.

So God; an omnipotent being, capable of creating the universe needs Managers

Lets all play make believe; now lets pretend we are all leprechauns.........

Yes. This is why Christianity is unique. It is beyond logic, which is the only thing atheist has.

 

[juvenissun]

I love how you consider religion to be so devoid of accuracy or truth.

I never do that. On the contrary, I am trying to make people understand that Christianity is a very ACCURATE religion (if they cared to learn).

 

[Chalnoth]

I never do that. On the contrary, I am trying to make people understand that Christianity is a very ACCURATE religion (if they cared to learn).

Then why do you accuse us of having faith to try to say our points are wrong?