What kind of message is The Message?

[Elijah2]

I agree Henaynei, however, I believe God is faithful to finish what HE starts in each persons life. I believe that as one matures in the Lord, God will stir up the hunger and thirst in their hearts to go for more. Eventually, I believer, those who are seeking Him with all their heart will find Him...no matter what Bible translation or paraphrase they are reading.

Well I agree with what you say, but we need to be concerned for those wayside, stony, and thorny Christians, because they are ones that are misled, seduced, and deceived and will lose their life, unless they are brought back from being lost.

If you are 30-fold, then you have a great chance of being 60-fold and then 100-fold, and that will come from hearing His Word and doing His Word, which the first three wouldn't have a clue of doing, because they have been fed the "corruptible seed of false teaching through "The Message", and the latter three have been fed the "incorruptible seed" of the truth of His Word.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Svt4Him]

Mate, it's not what I am talking about, it's about knowing HIS WORD, hearing it, and doing it, which is normal Christian life.

Sorry if you misunderstood me, I must have worded a statement wrong, because the KJV is the benchmark, because it's the Authorised Version, and has NO false teaching in it whatsoever, like the watered-down paraphrased versions and The Message.

My facts are straight, and you need to read those few verses that I have posted on the three threads in regards to The Message.

Sad as it is, I'm not the only one who thinks that The Message is a lot of false teaching and is dangerous to the Body of Christ.

So, if you want get anything straight, then show me were The Message is confirming the translation of Greek and Hebrew, then at least that will be one point that can be straightened out.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

Perhaps we can discuss the KJV in the debate area, just to see how good it is? Then we can point out its many errors. But for now, we can leave it for this thread?

 

[Floatingaxe]

Does a Spaniard in Madrid read the KJV? How about Romanians?

 

[Alpine]

Exactly why I don't read the KJV. Last time I checked, I'm not a 16th century Englishman. Nor do I think the writers of the bible were either.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Well I agree with what you say, but we need to be concerned for those wayside, stony, and thorny Christians, because they are ones that are misled, seduced, and deceived and will lose their life, unless they are brought back from being lost.

If you are 30-fold, then you have a great chance of being 60-fold and then 100-fold, and that will come from hearing His Word and doing His Word, which the first three wouldn't have a clue of doing, because they have been fed the "corruptible seed of false teaching through "The Message", and the latter three have been fed the "incorruptible seed" of the truth of His Word.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

Wait a minute. The parable you are referring to did not say anything about the seed that was planted....as you are inferring here. It was the soil the seed was planted in that was being addressed in Jesus parable, not the seed. They were not misled by the seed. We can change the seed but we cannot change the soil of a persons heart. That is God's business. We can plant all the perfect seed we want, but the soil it's planted in still has the sayso of the outcome of the seed.

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica] I Peter 1:23, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, Which liveth and abideth for ever." This scripture is referring to what comes from the "loins" of God, not what comes from a seed that is planted in dirt. When we are born again, we become of "incorruptable" seed.

I'm not saying that the "quality and thoroughness" of what is being read is not important, 'cause I believe it is. However, to attack the only Word that some may be reading, to me, is cutting our foot off in order to spite our face. We need to direct and guide, not attack those who are trying to do that but not quite measuring up to our personal standards.


[/FONT]

 

[He put me back together]

Today the average believer has more resources available to understand the semantics of Scripture than he ever has. There are things in the Scripture that have been hidden and misunderstood for centuries because westerners have been either honestly ignorant, or maliciously indignant of their contexts. They are coming out today, to those who would care to investigate them, now that more information about the languages and the world in which they were used is made available in an instant.

In this age, when any Spirit-filled believer who wishes to take the time to get off of his lazy bum and find out some things can do so without fear of being burned, we have idiocies like the Message, who bid him to sit back down, and let the clergy, who is sadly no more knowledgeable than he is, and has already lead us into centuries of perverse, unrepentant, worldly, lustful, violent, dogmatic ignorance, tell him every single thing that he should think about what the Bible says.

I say stop wasting your time. Find out for yourself. If you're looking for someone to tell you what the Bible says, at least look to somebody who knows what he is doing, and who will show you from the bottom up, not from his opinion and nowhere else.

 

[imperfectchristian]

Today the average believer has more resources available to understand the semantics of Scripture than he ever has. There are things in the Scripture that have been hidden and misunderstood for centuries because westerners have been either honestly ignorant, or maliciously indignant of their contexts. They are coming out today, to those who would care to investigate them, now that more information about the languages and the world in which they were used is made available in an instant.

In this age, when any Spirit-filled believer who wishes to take the time to get off of his lazy bum and find out some things can do so without fear of being burned, we have idiocies like the Message, who bid him to sit back down, and let the clergy, who is sadly no more knowledgeable than he is, and has already lead us into centuries of perverse, unrepentant, worldly, lustful, violent, dogmatic ignorance, tell him every single thing that he should think about what the Bible says.

I say stop wasting your time. Find out for yourself. If you're looking for someone to tell you what the Bible says, at least look to somebody who knows what he is doing, and who will show you from the bottom up, not from his opinion and nowhere else.

That is not a very nice thing to say, nor a nice way to say it.

 

[Floatingaxe]

In this age, when any Spirit-filled believer who wishes to take the time to get off of his lazy bum and find out some things can do so without fear of being burned, we have idiocies like the Message, who bid him to sit back down, and let the clergy, who is sadly no more knowledgeable than he is, and has already lead us into centuries of perverse, unrepentant, worldly, lustful, violent, dogmatic ignorance, tell him every single thing that he should think about what the Bible says.

I say stop wasting your time. Find out for yourself. If you're looking for someone to tell you what the Bible says, at least look to somebody who knows what he is doing, and who will show you from the bottom up, not from his opinion and nowhere else.

How the heck does The Message tell us that?

 

[Elijah2]

Wait a minute. The parable you are referring to did not say anything about the seed that was planted....as you are inferring here. It was the soil the seed was planted in that was being addressed in Jesus parable, not the seed. They were not misled by the seed. We can change the seed but we cannot change the soil of a persons heart. That is God's business. We can plant all the perfect seed we want, but the soil it's planted in still has the sayso of the outcome of the seed.

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]I Peter 1:23, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, Which liveth and abideth for ever." This scripture is referring to what comes from the "loins" of God, not what comes from a seed that is planted in dirt. When we are born again, we become of "incorruptable" seed.

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]I'm not saying that the "quality and thoroughness" of what is being read is not important, 'cause I believe it is. However, to attack the only Word that some may be reading, to me, is cutting our foot off in order to spite our face. We need to direct and guide, not attack those who are trying to do that but not quite measuring up to our personal standards.


[/FONT][/FONT]

Sorry got mixed up with 1 Peter 1:22-25 & 2:1-3, which I also read in conjunction with Matthew 13:3-9 & 18-23. Sorry, and I pray that makes more sense.

Be blessed in Jesus' name.

 

[Elijah2]

Perhaps we can discuss the KJV in the debate area, just to see how good it is? Then we can point out its many errors. But for now, we can leave it for this thread?

Thanks mate, but really I guess you will point out a few errors, but not many errors. Now there are a few more errors in the NKJV, and stacks in the NIV. So where do you start and stop.

Take care mate, and be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

Today the average believer has more resources available to understand the semantics of Scripture than he ever has. There are things in the Scripture that have been hidden and misunderstood for centuries because westerners have been either honestly ignorant, or maliciously indignant of their contexts. They are coming out today, to those who would care to investigate them, now that more information about the languages and the world in which they were used is made available in an instant.

In this age, when any Spirit-filled believer who wishes to take the time to get off of his lazy bum and find out some things can do so without fear of being burned, we have idiocies like the Message, who bid him to sit back down, and let the clergy, who is sadly no more knowledgeable than he is, and has already lead us into centuries of perverse, unrepentant, worldly, lustful, violent, dogmatic ignorance, tell him every single thing that he should think about what the Bible says.

I say stop wasting your time. Find out for yourself. If you're looking for someone to tell you what the Bible says, at least look to somebody who knows what he is doing, and who will show you from the bottom up, not from his opinion and nowhere else.

I guess what you are saying here:

"Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, as new born babes, desire the pure milk of the Word, that you may grow thereby, if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious." (1 Pet. 2:1-3) "For through by this time you ought to be teachers you need someone to TEACH YOU AGAIN the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the WORD of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their SENSES exercised to discern both good and evil". (Heb. 5:12-14)

After all, the aim and purpose of a believer is to learn the “first principles" of BASIC TRUTHS, the first elements that everything is developed from by complete study of His Inspired Word through being tended to and fed MEAT, so as to find the complete TRUTH, and not to just to learn more, but to become mature in the faith, and practicing the information they have been fed. Maturity comes from “reason of use”, that is, practice and habit. And we are sure that paraphrased and watered-down version is nothing more than milk and most less than milk that cannot mature anyone in faith or able to distinguish “good” from “evil”.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[CryoftheNation]

Sorry if you misunderstood me, I must have worded a statement wrong, because the KJV is the benchmark, because it's the Authorised Version, and has NO false teaching in it whatsoever, like the watered-down paraphrased versions and The Message.

Hi mate, long time no see! (ive been a little busy so forums have been on hold!)

Just a quick question. You call the kjv the authorised version, but other than by King James (a British Monarch who certainly wasn't God!) who in fact is this authorised by?

Personally I find that the message "paraphrase" is extremely useful especially when talking to young people. It certainly isn't a study bible but it can really get their attention and help them to get into the bible. Once they start reading the "message" they graduate to other versions aswell. Its an excellent teaching tool.

Thanks

God bless

Simon

 

[Elijah2]

Hi mate, long time no see! (ive been a little busy so forums have been on hold!)

Just a quick question. You call the kjv the authorised version, but other than by King James (a British Monarch who certainly wasn't God!) who in fact is this authorised by?

Personally I find that the message "paraphrase" is extremely useful especially when talking to young people. It certainly isn't a study bible but it can really get their attention and help them to get into the bible. Once they start reading the "message" they graduate to other versions aswell. Its an excellent teaching tool.

Thanks

God bless

Simon

Hi Simon, long time now hear, how are you travelling?

Well mate, I suggest you read through all my postings on this thread and on the other two threads on The Message.

The message isn't a teaching tool, because it's a watered-down version of His Inspired Word that is distortion, misrepresentation of His Word and full of "corruptible seed" (read 1 Pet. 1:22-25 & 2:2-3). The only teaching tool is "meat" not "milk", and The Message is nothing that resembles English context of Greek and Hebrew.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

God's word says in Hebrews 13:1, "Let brotherly love continue." Or as said in the message version of the Bible, "Stay on good terms with each other, held together by love."

James 3:17-18 says "But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peacable, gentle and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partality, and without hypocrasy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace." Or in the message version, "Real wisdom, God's wisdom, is characterized by the holy life by getting along with others. It is gentle and reasonable, overflowing with mercy and blessings, not hot one day and cold the next, not two-faced. You can develop a healthy, robust community that lives right with God and enjoy its results only if you do the hard work of getting along with each other, treating each other with dignity and honor."

James 4:9 says "Grudge not one against another, breathren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door." Or, ""Friends don't complain about each other. A far greater complaing could be lodged against you, you know. The Judge is standing just around the corner."

It is clear, whatever scripture that you give credit to, that the true meaning and will of God is that we should be getting along with each other. Consider, what kind of witness you bear against Christianity with your bickering about the Message. Surely that there is a greater purpose in mind for the Message. It is clear, sure the Message has faults in it, it's a translation that has been created by a man...but all translations created by men are falliable. You want to have a translation that's reliable, talk to God. Bickering about the imperfections of one source of scripture signifies that all other sources of scripture are falliable. You never know, the ramifications of our bickering that has occured...we may have turned someone away from Christ because we can't have peace about the different versions. There's a different version out there for everyone...and we shouldn't be bickering among ourselves...because we're wasting energy. We are wasting energy. WHy do I say that? Consider, how many people you could have witnessed to for Christ, or how much time you could've had to spare to be there for someone else. Consider the time you could've spent in whole-hearted worship.

Who cares about being right? Who cares? Whatever message of the Bible we use does not determine our entrance into the Kingdom of God. But what counts is how we've used our time to glorify him. I really don't think arguing within a body of Church, so to speak, is glorifying him. God has a passion for you, but it seems his people only have a passion for being right and arguing, as shown through this thread. I seek you to pray for forgiveness, and realize that perhaps the different versions of the Bible are all tools to win people to Christ, no matter how imperfect.

God will use all things for his glory, even the message. I think it's time we recognize that, and the potential that we all could have had, but instead, we miss out on the blessings because we're so pent up and determined to be right.

 

[Elijah2]

My dear Tbird, what makes you think that The Message is a translation?

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

Hey Tbird,

Read these and tell me that The Message that is in blue is a direct translantion from Greek?

NKJV
The Message

Matt. 3:12:

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matt. 3:12)

“I'm baptizing you here in the river, turning your old life in for a kingdom life. The real action comes next: The main character in this drama—compared to him (No mention of repentance!) I'm a mere stagehand—will ignite the kingdom life within you, a fire within you, the Holy Spirit within you, changing you from the inside out. He's going to clean house—make a clean sweep of your lives. He'll place everything true in its proper place before God; everything false he'll put out with the trash to be burned.”

Matt. 10:28:

“And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

“Don't be bluffed into silence by the threats of bullies. There's nothing they can do to your soul, your core being. Save your fear for God, who holds your entire life—body and soul—in his hands (No mention of HELL!).”

Matt. 12:31-32:

“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.”

“There's nothing done or said that can't be forgiven. But if you deliberately persist in your slanders against God's Spirit, you are repudiating the very One who forgives (No mention that such slander will not be forgiven!). If you reject the Son of Man out of some misunderstanding, the Holy Spirit can forgive you, but when you reject the Holy Spirit, you're sawing off the branch (No mention that this sin is an unforgivable sin!) on which you're sitting, severing by your own perversity all connection with the One who forgives.”

Matt. 18:8-9:

“If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.”

“If your hand or your foot gets in the way of God (No mention of SIN!), chop it off and throw it away. You're better off maimed or lame and alive than the proud owners of two hands and two feet, godless in a furnace of eternal fire. And if your eye distracts you from God, pull it out and throw it away. You're better off one-eyed and alive than exercising your twenty-twenty vision from inside the fire of hell (No mention of being cast into hell!).”

Matt. 23:33:

Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

“Snakes! Reptilian sneaks! Do you think you can worm your way out of this (No mention that condemnation means HELL!)?”

John 1:12:

“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:”

“He made to be their true selves, their child-of-God selves.”

Rom. 3:27-28:

“Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.”

“So where does that leave our proud Jewish insider claims and counter-claims? Canceled? Yes, canceled. What we've learned is this: God does not respond to what we do; we respond to what God does. We've finally figured it out. Our lives get in step with God and all others by letting him set the pace, not by proudly or anxiously trying to run the parade. (No mention of being justified by faith!)”

Rom. 6:3-5:

“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,”

“That's what baptism into the life of Jesus means. When we are lowered into the water, it is like the burial of Jesus; when we are raised up out of the water, it is like the resurrection of Jesus. Each of us is raised into a light-filled world by our Father so that we can see where we're going in our new grace-sovereign country.”

1 Cor. 6:9-10:

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”

“Don't you realize that this is not the way to live? Unjust people who don't care about God will not be joining in his kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, use and abuse the earth and everything in it (No mention of the sins, completely omitted!), don't qualify as citizens in God's kingdom. A number of you know from experience what I'm talking about, for not so long ago you were on that list. Since then, you've been cleaned up and given a fresh start by Jesus, our Master, our Messiah, and by our God present in us, the Spirit.”

1 Tim. 1:8-11:

“But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.”

“It's true that moral guidance and counsel need to be given, but the way you say it and to whom you say it are as important as what you say. It's obvious, isn't it, that the law code isn't primarily for people who live responsibly, but for the irresponsible (Irresponsible people are not lawless and insubordinate!), who defy all authority, riding roughshod over God, life, sex, truth, whatever (No mention of the offenders!)! They are contemptuous of this great Message I've been put in charge of by this great God.”

 

[Elijah2]

Hi Tbird,

Have a read of this:

The Message is a paraphrased, watered-down, mystical bible that has been “crafted” by Eugene Peterson to present the doctrines of mysticism (demons) to the Christian church in order to seduce it into occultism and the New Age Movement. Eugene Peterson has “exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator” (Rom. 1:25).

The Message is so full of the new gospels that HIS INSPIRED WORD has been distorted, misrepresented, changed, deleted, and added to. “The Message” is so watered-down that any similarity to HIS INSPIRED WORD is purely coincidental. The Message is Eugene Peterson’s personal interpretation of what the new age emerging church of the “we are one” syndrome of mysticism wants!

“The Message” has introduced a different gospel message that is unbiblical!

“The Message” reflects a New Age influence, and agenda.

“The Message” has drawn completely away from the truth of God's word by distorting and spreading “Deception in the Church”.

The Modernistic Emerging Church Movement have been bringing Christian doctrines into line with modern secularistic knowledge and concepts of what the world sees the nature of Man and the Universe in which he lives. The Christian doctrine today is being reconstructed into new age thinking, practicality and comfort zone that has mutilated and garbled the authorised version.

Such examples as follows:

The Message turns prophecy of the Church’s Apostasy into mysticism.

“But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.” (2 Tim 3:13)

The Message: “Unscrupulous con men will continue to exploit the faith. They're as deceived as the people they lead astray. As long as they are out there, THINGS CAN ONLY GET WORSE.”

The Message rejects sound doctrine and on fables and myths and turns HIS WORD into a “tickling of itchy ears” and comfort zones and turning their back on the TRUTH OF HIS WORD.

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” (2 Tim. 4:3-4)

The Message: “You're going to find out that THERE WILL BE TIMES when people will have no stomach for solid teaching, but will fill up on spiritual junk food - CATCHY OPINIONS that tickle their fancy. They'll turn their backs on truth and chase MIRAGES.”

The Message distorts the “Principles/Doctrines of Bibliology” and the “Inspiration of the Bible”.

“For prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” (2 Pet. 1:21)

The Message: “Prophecy resulted when the Holy Spirit prompted men AND WOMEN to speak God's word”

God inspired “holy men”, NOT women to write HIS INSPIRED WORD.

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Tim. 3:16)

The Message: “EVERY PART OF SCRIPTURE is God-breathed ...”

His Word is a record of what God thinks and speaks, not of what man thinks and speaks!


Warren Smith said:

"As I read down this same dedication page of The Purpose Driven Life, I was surprised to see that there was another apparent problem. For some reason or another, Rick Warren was quoting Eugene Peterson's The Message, as if it were reliable and authoritative Scripture....

"Anyone reading The Message should be able to quickly see how verses from Scripture often had their otherwise clear meanings obscured, or even altered. Important details were sometimes omitted, while misleading words and phrases were often added. For example, when the disciples asked Jesus about his second coming and the end of the world, His reply in the Bible was very straightforward and clear:
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (Matthew 24: 4-5)

"Because of that important Scripture, I had been made to realize that Jesus' warning applied to the whole New Age movement that included my wife and me. This particular Scripture helped to save my life. It gave me godly insight into the dynamics of the deception I had been a part of. But not so with Eugene Peterson's paraphrase of this same Scripture.
"It [The Message] fails to communicate what Jesus was really saying. When the disciples asked about Jesus' second coming and the end of the world, Peterson's paraphrase reads as follows:
Jesus said, "Watch out for doomsday deceivers. Many leaders are going to show up with forged identities, claiming, `I am Christ, the Messiah.' They will deceive a lot of people."
"By omitting the warning to let 'no man' deceive you and paraphrasing it with only a general caution about 'doomsday deceivers' and 'leaders with forged identities,' Peterson's paraphrase completely missed exposing all of us who were in the New Age believing we were Christ. It also allowed false Christs, who portray themselves as 'peace loving,' and not as 'doomsday deceivers,' to slip under the scriptural radar. Jesus was not limiting his comments about false Christs to 'doomsday deceivers.' In fact, he wasn't specifying 'doomsday deceivers' at all. His warning was all encompassing. He said, 'Take heed that no man deceive you.' He was warning about anyone who says 'I am Christ.'
My wife and I were not 'doomsday deceivers.' We were not 'leaders with forged identities.' If we had been looking only at Eugene Peterson's paraphrase when we were unbelievers, we would have never seen ourselves and the whole New Age movement in that prophetic passage of Scripture. But thanks to a real Bible, we were clearly shown that we were the subjects of Jesus' warning. Coming into the faith we had learned first-hand how the precision of a properly translated Bible can be the difference between truth and deception."

Comments by Janet Moser:

The basis of this study is the English paraphrased text of the New Testament written by Eugene Peterson called "The Message." Through the use of paraphrase, 'The Message' was 'crafted' to present the doctrines of mysticism to the Christian church in order to seduce believers into the occult and the New Age Movement. Readers who recognize mystical/occult terminology, will definitely get "the message" Mr. Peterson is seeking to convey throughout his version of the Bible.

 

[Elijah2]

Hi Tbird,

Do you really believe that The Message's Lord's Prayer is a translation of Greek?

Matthew 6:9-13 from the NIV:

"Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever.

From "The Message":

"Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best -
As above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you
and forgiving others.
Keep us safe
from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!

 

[JimB]

A paraphrase makes no claims to being an accurate translation of scripture. It is a paraphrase, an interpretation. You know that going into it, if you read the introduction. Most preachers paraphrase the Bible when they are preaching and have to recall a scripture off the top of their head. Like the preacher on TV this past week (during the outrageous TBN beg-a-thon) who told us, quote, “Don’t the Bible say that Bill Gates’ money is laid up for Christians” (and all the people whooped or went into a swoon).

Except, the Bible does not say that. That interpretation would encourage covetousness.

To quote Prov. 13.22 from another paraphrase (the Message), “A good life gets passed on to the grandchildren; ill-gotten wealth ends up with good people.”

The Message may be a loose paraphrase but not as loose as what I heard on TBN and you probably heard on Sunday.

~Jim

It seems to be a universal irony that when people are free to do what they want they usually imitate one another.​

 

[CryoftheNation]

Hi Simon, long time now hear, how are you travelling?

Well mate, I suggest you read through all my postings on this thread and on the other two threads on The Message.

The message isn't a teaching tool, because it's a watered-down version of His Inspired Word that is distortion, misrepresentation of His Word and full of "corruptible seed" (read 1 Pet. 1:22-25 & 2:2-3). The only teaching tool is "meat" not "milk", and The Message is nothing that resembles English context of Greek and Hebrew.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

I'm great thanks my friend.


We don't teach exclusively through the message but use it as a tool to aid the understanding of young people and to get them interested in the word of God. I have read the previous posts and some of the quotes seem to me to be a little too picky about semantics rather than it changing any faith issues. But hey! I'm open to being convinced otherwise! (except in the parts where I'm wrong in which case I don't want to know!)

Yes we are to give "meat" as teaching, but when you are dealing with babies you don't give meat you give milk. You then help them to grow into eating meat. Force feeding babies meat is a sure fire way of killing them. Now I know that the message is no study bible and we certainly would not promote it as such, but we would and do promote it as an aid to getting interested in the bible and would happily give any of our young people a copy to go along side their other bibles. (we use niv or ncv or living bible or nkjv or what ever people like best!) Surely its important that people actually can understand what is written as well as sticking as close as possible to the original text!

I'll be open and honest here, I cannot stand the kjv or the nkjv as the language does not aid in understanding. It is too out of date. (I don't live in 16th century England but in 21st century England!) The bible was written in the language of the people and places of its time. I believe that we need to "translate" it into our time and language.

I don't for one minute think that the kjv is the only "authorised" way of interpreting it. If you want "authorised" then I'm afraid that you need to throw away the kjv or nkjv or any other "translation / transliteration / paraphrase" and only read it in the original text of hebrew / aramaic / greek.

Again, who authorised the KJV? (just so I can clear that up! ).

God Bless

Simon