Can Christianity survive without the Pope?

[LittleLambofJesus]

I said other because Christianity does not need a pope it needs Jesus.

Greetings. But the RCC does preach JESUS, though they may teach/preach the Gospel in different ways than other Denominations in Christianity. It is indedd all about JESUS!!!!!
Thks for your thoughts

John 4:11 Is saying to Him, the woman, "Lord! not a bucket Thou are having, and the well is deep, whence then Thou are having the water, the living? 12 No Thou greater are of the father of us Jacob, who gives to us the well, and himself out of it drank, and sons of him , and the nurtured of him? [Genesis 29]

John 7:37 In yet the last day, the great, of the feast, stood the Jesus and cries-out, saying, "If-ever any may be thirsting, let him be coming toward Me and be drinking"; [Isaiah 43:19/Revelation 21:6]

 

[Sphinx777]

Roman pagan religion.

The Pontifex Maximus was the high priest of the Ancient Roman College of Pontiffs. This was the most important position in the Ancient Roman religion, open only to patricians until 254 BC, when a plebeian first occupied this post. A distinctly religious office under the early Roman Republic, it gradually became politicized until, beginning with Augustus, it was subsumed into the Imperial office. Its last use with reference to the emperors is in inscriptions of Gratian, Emperor from 375 to 383, who, however, then decided to omit the words "pontifex maximus" from his title.

It is often said that Pope Damasus I, Bishop of Rome from 366 to 384 and so for the whole of the reign of Gratian, was the first pope to use the title "Pontifex Maximus", but no document is cited in support of this statement. Emperor Theodosius I's edict De fide catholica of 27 February 380 refers to Damasus as a "pontifex", not as the "Pontifex Maximus". It is at a much later stage in history that the title "Pontifex Maximus" appears on buildings, monuments and coins of a specific pope of Renaissance and modern times.

 

[Meshavrischika]

If Christianity depends on one living human than it's not what I thought it was

On the other hand, if Christianit is depenant on God and His only Son then I think they can manage just fine without some guy in charge of a church... but then, I think they're rather omnipotent and don't require much help myself... just MHO.

 

[simonthezealot]

Christianity would flourish in the absence of a Pope and the whole heirarchy of catholicism.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Even the EO survive because there is a Pope even if they do not recognize the Pope, for there is illness in the EO - if there were no Pope, the EO would finish their devolvement into chaos with all others.

If the Rock, Peter and the Papacy, ceases to be, then the Church of Christ which is built on it also ceases to be, for then the Church falls into the gates of hades.

I will not be contnuing in this thread - I simply saw it and came to vote, saw the comment and felt the correct reply needed to be made.

I voted "No" and agree that the Pope is very important to Christianity. It has to do with the office he has. It is an office that Jesus established with Peter. God has always had a man leading his people on earth. I think it started with Adam. We also had Moses and King David and many others. God is a God of order and Peace and with out government you are left without order and Peace. So, the answer is "no" without a leader for God's church, a shepard of HIs flock, the Chrisitian people would be scattered to all corners and Judgment Day would have to ensue.

Third prophecy (partial possibly):
"After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!' And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, Religious men and women going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, Religious men and women, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_lady_of_fatima#The_Third_Secret

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I voted "No" and agree that the Pope is very important to Christianity. It has to do with the office he has. It is an office that Jesus established with Peter.

Thanks for your view. Please, let us not get into the peter/pope controversy in this thread. Thanks.

John 11:48 If-ever we should be letting Him thus, all shall be believing into Him and shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place/topon <5117> and the Nation.

Reve 12:8 And not he is strong, neither Place/topoV <5117> was found of Them still in the Heaven.

Reve 20:11 And I perceived a throne, white, great. And the One sitting on it whom from face fled the Land and the Heaven and Place/topoV <5117> not was found to Them.

 

[ThomasDa]

The Church of God has survived in spite of the pope.
Jesus said that even the gates of hades (the grave and death itself) could not destroy His Church.
So of course The Church of God a can survive without a pope.

 

[MamaZ]

Especially when Christ is the rock and the head of the Church and lives to forever intercede on our behalf.. So if God be for us who then can be against us?

 

[Brennin]

Even the EO survive because there is a Pope even if they do not recognize the Pope, for there is illness in the EO - if there were no Pope, the EO would finish their devolvement into chaos with all others.

If the Rock, Peter and the Papacy, ceases to be, then the Church of Christ which is built on it also ceases to be, for then the Church falls into the gates of hades.

I will not be contnuing in this thread - I simply saw it and came to vote, saw the comment and felt the correct reply needed to be made.

Peter has nothing to do with the papacy.

 

[Brennin]

Third prophecy (partial possibly):
"After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: &#8216;Penance, Penance, Penance!' And we saw in an immense light that is God: &#8216;something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White &#8216;we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, Religious men and women going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, Religious men and women, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_lady_of_fatima#The_Third_Secret

I do not accept the utterances of "Marian" apparitions.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So, the answer is "no" without a leader for God's church, a shepard of HIs flock, the Chrisitian people would be scattered to all corners and Judgment Day would have to ensue.

Greetings JtC. Christians have been scattered all over the world since after Pentecost. Not really understanding this too well. Can you elaborate?

Ezekiel 7:1 And a word of YHWH is becoming unto me to say of, "And thou, Son of 'adam, thus is saying my Lord YHWH to Ground of Yisra'el:
2 An End comes, the End on Four Corners of the Land."

Reve 20:8 and he shall be coming out to deceive the nations, the in the Four Corners/gwniaiV <1137> of the Land, the Gog and magog, to be together/leading them into the battle of which the number of them as the sand of the sea. [Ezekiel 7:1]

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Peter has nothing to do with the papacy.

Peter has eveything to do with the Papacy. I can provide sources and links if you wish?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Greetings JtC. Christians have been scattered all over the world since after Pentecost. Not really understanding this too well. Can you elaborate?

Ezekiel 7:1 And a word of YHWH is becoming unto me to say of, "And thou, Son of 'adam, thus is saying my Lord YHWH to Ground of Yisra'el:
2 An End comes, the End on Four Corners of the Land."

Reve 20:8 and he shall be coming out to deceive the nations, the in the Four Corners/gwniaiV <1137> of the Land, the Gog and magog, to be together/leading them into the battle of which the number of them as the sand of the sea. [Ezekiel 7:1]

Like a deck of cards in a neat pile picked up my storm winds and scattered into the storm.

 

[Brennin]

Peter has eveything to do with the Papacy. I can provide sources and links if you wish?

Sure. I am in the mood to debunk Catholic apologia.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Like a deck of cards in a neat pile picked up my storm winds and scattered into the storm.

Sounds like your ready for AV1611VET's Bicycle Challenge! One of the most awsome threads in the history of CF as the bemish boy will readily attest to.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7252245&page=36
My Bicycle Challenge

 

[Zoness]

Sure we can get along fine without the Pope just look at:

1. Pre-Catholicism Christians
2. The Eastern and Oriental Orthodox
3. Protestants

Peace

 

[Rick Otto]

Sure we can get along fine without the Pope just look at:

1. Pre-Catholicism Christians
2. The Eastern and Oriental Orthodox
3. Protestants

Peace

Agreed.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Sure we can get along fine without the Pope just look at:

1. Pre-Catholicism Christians - No such thing
2. The Eastern and Oriental Orthodox - Still Catholic
3. Protestants - LOL... seriously

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Sure. I am in the mood to debunk Catholic apologia.

Some starters...


Origen:
"f we were to attend carefully to the Gospels, we should also find, in relation to those things which seem to be common to Peter . . . a great difference and a preeminence in the things [Jesus] said to Peter, compared with the second class [of apostles]. For it is no small difference that Peter received the keys not of one heaven but of more, and in order that whatsoever things he binds on earth may be bound not in one heaven but in them all, as compared with the many who bind on earth and loose on earth, so that these things are bound and loosed not in [all] the heavens, as in the case of Peter, but in one only; for they do not reach so high a stage with power as Peter to bind and loose in all the heavens" (Commentary on Matthew 13:31 [A.D. 248]).


Cyprian of Carthage:
"The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. . . . If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).


Optatus:
"You cannot deny that you are aware that in the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter; the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head—that is why he is also called Cephas [‘Rock’]—of all the apostles; the one chair in which unity is maintained by all" (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [A.D. 367]).



Augustine:
"If the very order of episcopal succession is to be considered, how much more surely, truly, and safely do we number them [the bishops of Rome] from Peter himself, to whom, as to one representing the whole Church, the Lord said, ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer it.’ Peter was succeeded by Linus, Linus by Clement. ... In this order of succession a Donatist bishop is not to be found" (Letters 53:1:2 [A.D. 412]).

 

[Rick Otto]

Origen:
Jesus is the "1st class" apostle(Heb 3:1), making Peter 2nd, & the rest "3rd".
A class system Jesus was demonstrably against. Origen vainly imagines the same binding & loosing power given to the others is greater in Peter.

Cyprian of Carthage:
By vainly imagining a "chair", Cyprian reveals his allegiance to this delusion of centralized power having been vested in one created being.

Optatus:
Same delusion as above.

Augustine:
At least St Augustine had the presence of mind to say "If".
So he doesn't endorse the chair fantasy here, but shows the line of reasoning from the point of accepting it (IF one does).

Resting an apologia for papacy on ECF writings?LOL... seriously