If being homosexual is a sin, then why did God create homosexuals?

[beechy]

In reply to the question of infertile couples, there is still the hope and possibility through prayer and/or treatment for an infertile couple to have a child of their own. I mean c'mon, Abraham's wife was unable to conceive as far as they knew, but God gave them a child. The difference is that homosexual couples were never even made or intended to procreate.

If a heterosexual couple is infertile because the woman has A complete hysterectomy (i.e., is left with no ovaries and no uterus), is there still the hope and possibility through prayer and/or treatment for that couple to conceive a child through sexual intercourse?

 

[beechy]

Homosexuals are not inherently evil or any such thing because of their attraction to the same sex. The act of sexual intercourse is sinful between two unmarried persons.

What about two men who live together, share a bed (literally, but without having sex), hold hands in public, kiss each other on the lips, call each other "honey", and snuggle while watching movies ... but they never have sex. Sin?

 

[Krus]

Im sure celibacy can be wonderful if thats what a person wants, but most of us have the innate human desire for company and intimacy with another person.

This is fully in line with the Bible.

 

[JediMobius]

Would you say that heterosexual sex was based on feeling and lustful desire, not Godly behaviour and love? Would you say that heterosexual sex was what individuals want, regardless of anyone else and especially regardless of God?

David.

Outside of marriage, yes.

 

[beechy]

Outside of marriage, yes.

Inside of marriage it is neve based on lustful desire, and is not what the individuals want regardless of anyone else?

 

[JediMobius]

MY desire for coffee is based on feeling and lustful desire, not Godly behaviour and love. Is it a sin because it's what I want, regardless of anyone else - especially God?

I don't care what it is, if you want something, or want to do something regardless of anyone else, that means you're not putting God first, and you're not putting others before yourself. If you are not putting God first in all things, you're putting "another god" before him. If you're separated from God, you're going to sin. As much as the law is being debated, it's the heart of the issue, and if your heart is for that coffee, it's not for God, even if only for as long as it takes to finish that cup. Should we base what seems alright to put before God on how passive or insignificant it seems?

 

[Polycarp1]

Joh 3:18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
Joh 3:21 But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God.

Not the mind, but the heart, and it's not that Christians have their own insight into men's hearts, but what we've learned from the Word of God.

Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings out good things; and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings out evil things.

Mat 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies;

Well, based on the testimony of many people regarding their own efforts to walk with Christ and deal with same-sex attraction, I believe it is clear what you are from this message. (See Matthew 7:15)

 

[JediMobius]

Just a short aside note:
Banging your head against a concrete wall may be a pleasure on its own - but to think that any rational argument will ever be considered valid by someone who argues from "my god says so" is a little naive.

Carry on.

I fear you are right.

You both realize you're on a Christian site, right? Just checking.

 

[beechy]

I don't care what it is, if you want something, or want to do something regardless of anyone else, that means you're not putting God first, and you're not putting others before yourself. If you are not putting God first in all things, you're putting "another god" before him. If you're separated from God, you're going to sin. As much as the law is being debated, it's the heart of the issue, and if your heart is for that coffee, it's not for God, even if only for as long as it takes to finish that cup. Should we base what seems alright to put before God on how passive or insignificant it seems?

So do you think it would be better for nobody to drink coffee because our desire for coffee separates us from God? (This is a serious question)

 

[Krus]

I don't care what it is, if you want something, or want to do something regardless of anyone else, that means you're not putting God first, and you're not putting others before yourself. If you are not putting God first in all things, you're putting "another god" before him. If you're separated from God, you're going to sin. As much as the law is being debated, it's the heart of the issue, and if your heart is for that coffee, it's not for God, even if only for as long as it takes to finish that cup. Should we base what seems alright to put before God on how passive or insignificant it seems?

God has to be in the center of our life!

 

[beechy]

God has to be in the center of our life!

So if I drink a cup of coffee because I want to drink it, I'm straying from God?

 

[JediMobius]

Imho celibacy should be something someone is called too not something somone has thrust on them. Essentially you are saying if someone has SSA (something I dont believe the vast majority of people choose) they have to be celibate and dont really have any say on the matter if they want to be with God.

1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. [NIC: Sexual Immorality] Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits fornication sins against his own body.
1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in you, whom you have of God? And you are not your own,
1Co 6:20 for you are bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.

It would be a cruel God indeed if this were true. Im sure celibacy can be wonderful if thats what a person wants, but most of us have the innate human desire for company and intimacy with another person. Sure people can have freinds but a freindship is extremely different to a relationship between a couple. The degree of emotional connection is imho a lot higher. To deny someone that is a sad thing indeed regardless of whether homosexual or hetrosexual. God wouldnt have created this with a desire for company if he was meant to replace that feeling in the majority of cases.

Since when does what is moral, what is acceptable to God hinge on what a person wants? What majority of cases? Homosexual attraction is the minority. It is possible to have a strong, close emotional relationship with a person without having sexual intercourse, it's only uncommon. (Apparently, since the idea is such a foreign concept.) Please, don't confuse what is right with what is easy or what is natural.

 

[JediMobius]

If a heterosexual couple is infertile because the woman has A complete hysterectomy (i.e., is left with no ovaries and no uterus), is there still the hope and possibility through prayer and/or treatment for that couple to conceive a child through sexual intercourse?

Is there any limit to what God can do?

 

[JediMobius]

What about two men who live together, share a bed (literally, but without having sex), hold hands in public, kiss each other on the lips, call each other "honey", and snuggle while watching movies ... but they never have sex. Sin?

Not any apparent sin, just a ridiculous amount of daily temptation. The worldy answer is to let 'em, the Christian answer is to flee temptation.

 

[beechy]

Is there any limit to what God can do?

How about a lesbian couple conceiving a child through sex with one another ....

 

[JediMobius]

How about a lesbian couple conceiving a child through sex with one another ....

That's different. God already placed that limit through creation. Can God cause a woman to conceive without a man? Well, yeah, but he's done that once, and I don't think he's going to again. Besides, the only way to receive hope for something that seems impossible is to receive it from God. An infertile married couple seeking God might have His blessing according to His will. A homosexual couple who would rather ignore the bible and live however they wish probably won't.

 

[JediMobius]

So if I drink a cup of coffee because I want to drink it, I'm straying from God?

What both of us are saying is that the focus should be on God, not the cup of coffee. God first, then you can deal with the rest of your day in the spirit. Maybe God wants you to have the cup of coffee, maybe he doesn't, or maybe it doesn't matter, but you can't know God's will is if you want that cup of coffee regardless of what God wants.

 

[beechy]

That's different. God already placed that limit through creation.

Creation has also limited reproductive possibilities to require a uterus and ovaries.

Can God cause a woman to conceive without a man? Well, yeah, but he's done that once, and I don't think he's going to again.

What makes you think that?

Besides, the only way to receive hope for something that seems impossible is to receive it from God. An infertile married couple seeking God might have His blessing according to His will. A homosexual couple who would rather ignore the bible and live however they wish probably won't.

People who ignore the Bible and live however they wish get blessed with children all the time …

 

[beechy]

What both of us are saying is that the focus should be on God, not the cup of coffee. God first, then you can deal with the rest of your day in the spirit. Maybe God wants you to have the cup of coffee, maybe he doesn't, or maybe it doesn't matter, but you can't know God's will is if you want that cup of coffee regardless of what God wants.

So if I desire something, I first have to check with God to make sure He doesn't object to what I want, and if I haven't checked first, then I'm not focused enough on His will and risk being too driven by my own desires. Is that right?

Let's go back to the cup of coffee. If I feel the urge to have a cup of coffee and I pray to God about that urge and He tells me it is ok, then I can get that coffee without fear of contravening Him. But what if I get the coffee and realize it is pretty darn strong and I want to put sugar in it to sweeten it up, and I forgot to ask Him that first -- can I assume sugar was part of the coffee approval, or is that a separate desire that needs its own clearance? And what if I originally planned on having the coffee in the cafe while reading the paper, but had a change of heart and now my desire is to get my coffee to go so I can drink it in the park across the street -- should I check with Him again?

 

[Beanieboy]

It's really sad that this is the scenario that people set up of God: that he is sitting there, getting angry at every thing that we don't do that he wanted us to (while not telling us what that was), when I think closer to the truth is that he allows us endless possibility - something that should excite us about living, not cowering in fear, hoping we don't anger the Mountain God, lest he send thunder and lighting bolts.

If you are doing something that is pleasurable, yet harms you (getting drunk), you get repercussions (a hang over, for example). It then depends on how much that repercussion affects you (if you are hung over ever day for work, you will eventually get fired.) However, if you get drunk occassionally, don't drive, and are responsible, I don't think God really cares. He is probably far more concerned about what you are doing to love your neighbor than nitpicking at this or that law or sin.

If you are loving your neighbor, it will bear fruit.
If not, it will usually detract from your life.
One causes you to evolve, the other, to remain stagnant, or even de-evolve.