If being homosexual is a sin, then why did God create homosexuals?

[quatona]

Are you asking why God declares what is sin, or why the sin is a sin?

The way he worded his question doesn´t leave much doubt that he meant the former - he used these exact words, after all.

Anyway, if you think there are other ways for something to gain the status of "sin" other than by god´s decree (or through the fact that god doesn´t like it), I would of course be interested to learn about the mechanics of those processes, as well.
An introductory definition of "sin" in your use of the word might also be helpful in understanding the distinction you make in your question.

 

[cantata]

That depends on the interpretation of "sincere mistakes," and whether we are speaking of Christians or non-Christians.

Well, both.

Is a non-Christian punished who is a non-Christian because, after careful thought, she sincerely finds the evidence for the existence of God unconvincing?

Is a Christian punished who, after careful thought, is sincerely mistaken about the sinfulness of a particular act?

The reason I ask is that I assume that God doesn't punish people (or fail to prevent people from being punished) because they make sincere mistakes in mathematics or geography. Yet in certain specific, notoriously difficult fields of reasoning - ethics, theology, and philosophy - God seems to be much less forgiving. If I am bad at maths, the worst I can expect is to be not much good as an accountant. If I am bad at philosophy or moral reasoning, subjects which are arguably much more difficult, I could suffer eternal torment on the basis of a few sincere errors.

 

[Andreusz]

To clarify:

Otherwise, homosexuals are called to celibacy.

How would you feel if someone told you that God has called heterosexual males to cut off their own testicles with a sharp object? That's how I feel when told homosexuals are called to celibacy.

In reply to the question of infertile couples, there is still the hope and possibility through prayer and/or treatment for an infertile couple to have a child of their own.

No couple where both parties are older than 65 has ever conceived a child in the whole of recorded history.

I mean c'mon, Abraham's wife was unable to conceive as far as they knew, but God gave them a child.

From the fact I just stated, we are forced to conclude that the story of Abraham and Sarah is a myth.

 

[Andreusz]

Are you asking why God declares what is sin, or why the sin is a sin?

Why the sin is a sin.

 

[BigBadWlf]

<staff edit>

No couple where both parties are older than 65 has ever conceived a child in the whole of recorded history.

As noted earlier the issue of fertility is special, it applies only to minorities

 

[aotn]

To clarify:

Through God all things are possible, so through God, a homosexual woman could learn to love and share passion with a husband. Otherwise, homosexuals are called to celibacy.

Mr Tortoise, lead by example: commit yourself to celibacy, so that for your entire life you live alone, never follow any sort of romantic desire, never have any sort of companionship, attend weddings but never be the centre of one, and die a lonely, lonely death.

Then, since you think this is the best idea for members of the LGTB community, maybe I will.

 

[sealacamp]

I've wondered that as well. How does God go about deciding what he likes and doesn't like? What are the reasons behind these thoughts?


They seem very arbitrary to me...and very human too, for a deity that is supposed to be outside of and superior to all subjective human biases.

If you allow the Holy Spirit and Gods word to lead you then you won't ponder this question any longer. You will understand it and furthermore you will realize that those that are lost in this life can not understand any explanation from anyone other that God. Many things are sin and all of them keep us from being what we should be. Homosexuality is morally wrong, a perversion, and a sin but that can easily be said of many other things as well. Does that make any of them justifiable? There is nothing arbitrary in God there is something arbitrary in mans viewpoint that that is the fundamental error that leads you down a dark path. There is a light that can lead you out of the darkness but you have to seek it with all your heart and then follow it when you find it. "For if the light you think you have is really darkness then how dark that darkness truly is."

||"Mr Tortoise, lead by example: commit yourself to celibacy, so that for your entire life you live alone, never follow any sort of romantic desire, never have any sort of companionship, attend weddings but never be the centre of one, and die a lonely, lonely death.

Then, since you think this is the best idea for members of the LGTB community, maybe I will."||

I don't think that is what is meant by celibacy but if you choose to be an extremist then feel free to do so. Personally I don't think that is a very healthy mindset.

||"How would you feel if someone told you that God has called heterosexual males to cut off their own testicles with a sharp object? That's how I feel when told homosexuals are called to celibacy."||

If you feel that way then you must have a guilty conscience. What God has said is right or wrong, sin or righteous can not be changed or dictated by any of us. You either accept it or reject it. It has nothing to do with persons here. It does have everything to do with God. Take it any way you like but what God has said stands forever. For as Christ said ||"For heaven and earth shall pass away but my words will never pass away."||

Sealacamp

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Through God all things are possible, so through God, a homosexual woman could learn to love and share passion with a husband. Otherwise, homosexuals are called to celibacy.

The call to celibacy is not a universal call to all people who are gay, or straight, for that matter. You are spouting some kind of man-made doctrine that appears to know nothing about the call and gift of celibacy. It is rare and precious for those who are called.

But those who are not called to celibacy can have wonderfully fulfilling lives in God with a monogamous partner.

 

[JediMobius]

The way he worded his question doesn´t leave much doubt that he meant the former - he used these exact words, after all.

Anyway, if you think there are other ways for something to gain the status of "sin" other than by god´s decree (or through the fact that god doesn´t like it), I would of course be interested to learn about the mechanics of those processes, as well.
An introductory definition of "sin" in your use of the word might also be helpful in understanding the distinction you make in your question.

The question could be answered in two ways. One way pertains to God's nature to oppose sin, and some of the "why" involved with that. The other would be the characteristics of the sin that show how it falls short of the Glory of God. (not the definition of sin per se, but how sin can be shown.)

I don't see that the original question was so concise that I could know exactly what was meant by the question. It's not as if english is used the same by everyone who uses the language, so I never assume that the way someone speaks and asks questions is the same way I or my local peers would.

EDIT: Sure enough, it turns out he meant the latter, not the former. I'm glad I asked.

 

[JediMobius]

The call to celibacy is not a universal call to all people who are gay, or straight, for that matter. You are spouting some kind of man-made doctrine that appears to know nothing about the call and gift of celibacy. It is rare and precious for those who are called.

But those who are not called to celibacy can have wonderfully fulfilling lives in God with a monogamous partner.

Clearly that is not what I said. I said first that it is possible for a homosexual man or woman to become attracted to and have a lasting healthy relationship with a heterosexual partner.

However, in the context of Christianity, if a homosexually attracted man simply cannot overcome his attractions, what other option is there than celibacy?

How you've applied this supposed universal doctrine (which you must have heard elsewhere) to what i'm saying is mind-boggling. Do you have biblical support for your claim that celibacy is rare for those who are called? Perhaps its rareness is a product of society coupled with lack of understanding of scripture - which is evident in the sheer quantity of division in the church. In 1 Corinthians 7, Paul speaks of unmarried life as hard for some to accept, but better for serving God, nothing about it being rare.

 

[JediMobius]

Mr Tortoise, lead by example: commit yourself to celibacy, so that for your entire life you live alone, never follow any sort of romantic desire, never have any sort of companionship, attend weddings but never be the centre of one, and die a lonely, lonely death.

Then, since you think this is the best idea for members of the LGTB community, maybe I will.

I never said it was an easy solution. The apostle Paul's example is much better than mine would be anyway. Though a celibate person would never follow or act on romantic desire toward another person, that desire would ultimately be channeled into their relationship with God. Never have any sort of companionship? That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? My best friend is pretty much a life long companion for me. We're committed to each other in support, brotherly love, and accountability, among other things. A celibate life would not mean a life shut off from the world and would not mean a lonely death. Do you think the apostle Paul lived and died alone? Anytime he was alone from people, he was with God. Which is probably why he advocated unmarried life so much.

 

[JediMobius]

How would you feel if someone told you that God has called heterosexual males to cut off their own testicles with a sharp object? That's how I feel when told homosexuals are called to celibacy.

The quest for truth, the debate of morality and ethics, are not grounded in feeling, but in reason based on the bible, which is based on my knowledge of the existence of God and further by what I've learned of God's mercy, grace, and righteousness firsthand. God gave us our sexual organs for procreation and for bonding physically and emotionally with our spouse, not just for pleasure, and certainly not for fornication.

Jesus did say something along the lines of "If your right eye causes you to sin, cut it out." That's the comparison here, to get rid of evil in our lives and approach God. If a man can't use his genitals in the good way God intended, better not to use them at all than to sin against himself and against God.

No couple where both parties are older than 65 has ever conceived a child in the whole of recorded history.

History is not so comprehensive.

From the fact I just stated, we are forced to conclude that the story of Abraham and Sarah is a myth.

Not fact, perception. You, who are biased, read someone else's biased research and claimed it to be fact. It's not a myth, but a miracle.

 

[JediMobius]

Why the sin is a sin.

Because it opposes God's creation. It is based on feeling and lustful desire, not Godly behavior and love. It is a sin because it's what individuals want, regardless of anyone else - especially regardless of God.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Because it opposes God's creation. It is based on feeling and lustful desire, not Godly behavior and love. It is a sin because it's what individuals want, regardless of anyone else - especially regardless of God. __________________

I must know how Christians can read the minds of others. With such power I could rule the world!!!!*Stewie Griffin voice*

 

[JediMobius]

I must know how Christians can read the minds of others. With such power I could rule the world!!!!*Stewie Griffin voice*

Joh 3:18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
Joh 3:21 But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God.

Not the mind, but the heart, and it's not that Christians have their own insight into men's hearts, but what we've learned from the Word of God.

Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings out good things; and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings out evil things.

Mat 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies;

 

[David Brider]

It is based on feeling and lustful desire, not Godly behavior and love. It is a sin because it's what individuals want, regardless of anyone else - especially regardless of God.

Would you say that heterosexual sex was based on feeling and lustful desire, not Godly behaviour and love? Would you say that heterosexual sex was what individuals want, regardless of anyone else and especially regardless of God?

David.

 

[cantata]

MY desire for coffee is based on feeling and lustful desire, not Godly behaviour and love. Is it a sin because it's what I want, regardless of anyone else - especially God?

 

[quatona]

Just a short aside note:
Banging your head against a concrete wall may be a pleasure on its own - but to think that any rational argument will ever be considered valid by someone who argues from "my god says so" is a little naive.

Carry on.

 

[Andreusz]

Just a short aside note:
Banging your head against a concrete wall may be a pleasure on its own - but to think that any rational argument will ever be considered valid by someone who argues from "my god says so" is a little naive.

Carry on.

I fear you are right.

 

[HaloHope]

I never said it was an easy solution. The apostle Paul's example is much better than mine would be anyway. Though a celibate person would never follow or act on romantic desire toward another person, that desire would ultimately be channeled into their relationship with God. Never have any sort of companionship? That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? My best friend is pretty much a life long companion for me. We're committed to each other in support, brotherly love, and accountability, among other things. A celibate life would not mean a life shut off from the world and would not mean a lonely death. Do you think the apostle Paul lived and died alone? Anytime he was alone from people, he was with God. Which is probably why he advocated unmarried life so much.

Imho celibacy should be something someone is called too not something somone has thrust on them. Essentially you are saying if someone has SSA (something I dont believe the vast majority of people choose) they have to be celibate and dont really have any say on the matter if they want to be with God.

It would be a cruel God indeed if this were true. Im sure celibacy can be wonderful if thats what a person wants, but most of us have the innate human desire for company and intimacy with another person. Sure people can have freinds but a freindship is extremely different to a relationship between a couple. The degree of emotional connection is imho a lot higher. To deny someone that is a sad thing indeed regardless of whether homosexual or hetrosexual. God wouldnt have created this with a desire for company if he was meant to replace that feeling in the majority of cases.