How Homophobic Are You?

[kiwimac]

THE CHURCH ITSELF used to celebrate same-sex relationships, Floating Axe, the CHURCH not just individuals. Take the time to educate yourself because all you are doing is bringing your point of view into dishonour by your lack of education.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Olliefranz,

No one has ever denied that gays can sin sexually in the same ways that straights can.

Hang on, I ma paraprashing the cited and quoted scriptures Genesis 2, Matthew 19, Ephesians 5 etc. that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'. Straight and gay? Where are they mentioned or those concepts in the Bible? You are still looking at what God says from a homosexuality point of view whereas if you looked at homosexuality from a God point of view you would see it is wrong thinking (ie Romans 1).

But you didn’t answer my question, why does God find those heterosexuals sinners? How could God who you say created heterosexuals possibly have made them sinners?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

But you didn’t answer my question, why does God find those heterosexuals sinners? How could God who you say created heterosexuals possibly have made them sinners?

I don't think anyone is equating heterosexuality with sin.

 

[Floatingaxe]

THE CHURCH ITSELF used to celebrate same-sex relationships, Floating Axe, the CHURCH not just individuals. Take the time to educate yourself because all you are doing is bringing your point of view into dishonour by your lack of education.

I don't believe it. I believe that what you are purveying is false and is only brought up here to validate the sin that is blatantly promoted here.

Not the Church of Jesus Christ. No. Even a church group who embraces it is headed for ruin.

Any Christian knows what the Word of God says about it. The Church of Jesus Christ has not veered from the truth in this matter. You must be referring to a renegade group--small "c".

It has not existed (or flourished) in Christendom, nor in the Word of God.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Fortunately history doesn't depend on the belief of individuals, but rather primary and secondary historical sources for verification.

Heck, even the Bible refers to homosexual unions, so I don't get how anyone can claim it doesn't exist.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To EnemyPartyII,

I don't think anyone is equating heterosexuality with sin.

I didn’t say that I said heterosexual sinners not heterosexuality. Or do you think sexual attractions and sexual acts are the same thing?

 

[brightmorningstar]

To EnemyPartyII

Heck, even the Bible refers to homosexual unions, so I don't get how anyone can claim it doesn't exist.

Yes it condemns them, Genesis 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Corinthians 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1, and excludes them Gen 2, Matthew 19, Mark 10, Ephesians 5, 1 Corinthians 7, Hebrews 13.
The only sex in the David and Jonathan account is where David sees an attractive woman and sleeps with her, and marries women, all that happened between David and Jonathan was love.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

To EnemyPartyII,

I didn’t say that I said heterosexual sinners not heterosexuality. Or do you think sexual attractions and sexual acts are the same thing?

Aside from saying "The Bible SEZ" over and over again, and citing ridiculously out of context verses, I'm really having a great deal of difficulty understanding exactly what it is you are trying to say.

You were asking about people thinking heterosexual relationships were sinners, or something, and now you're getting miffed that someone tries to answer you. One hesitates to point the finger of accusation, but one might be forgiven for thinking you were deliberately contrarian.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

To EnemyPartyII
Yes it condemns them, Genesis 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Corinthians 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1, and excludes them Gen 2, Matthew 19, Mark 10, Ephesians 5, 1 Corinthians 7, Hebrews 13.
The only sex in the David and Jonathan account is where David sees an attractive woman and sleeps with her, and marries women, all that happened between David and Jonathan was love.

actually none of the cited verses refer to homosexual unions. Oops, you were wrong, again. as always, feel free to prove me wrong. Cite the specific part of any given passage that actually says IN CONTEXT that "homosexual unions are wrong".

David and Jonathon, who WERE in a homosexual union, were considered righteous and blessed. So oops, you're wrong again.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To EnemyPartyII

actually none of the cited verses refer to homosexual unions.

They all do. Men wanting sex with men is waning a homosexual union not a herosexual one, or are you suggesting homosexual is not same-sex attraction? I think you will find the dictionary says it is.


This is why the Christian church is splitting, the two views are opposite. My view like so many Chistians is that one view isnt Christian at all.

 

[kiwimac]

And you would be wrong.

 

[kiwimac]

I don't believe it. I believe that what you are purveying is false and is only brought up here to validate the sin that is blatantly promoted here.

Not the Church of Jesus Christ. No. Even a church group who embraces it is headed for ruin.

Any Christian knows what the Word of God says about it. The Church of Jesus Christ has not veered from the truth in this matter. You must be referring to a renegade group--small "c".

It has not existed (or flourished) in Christendom, nor in the Word of God.

Just do the reading, who knows, something might be learned.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To kiwimac,

And you would be wrong.

No I am right the Christian church is splitting and I am sure and confident of what the Bible says, i'll go by that, you are free to chose what you believe but I think you deny the Bible.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

To EnemyPartyII
They all do. Men wanting sex with men is waning a homosexual union not a herosexual one, or are you suggesting homosexual is not same-sex attraction? I think you will find the dictionary says it is.

No, none of the cited verses refer to homosexual UNION... the vew that actually have anything to do with homosexuality are actually refering to homosexuality as a form of pagan idolatrous practice, or generally debauched, non monogomous homosexuality.

But the Bible never, ever, either pro or anti, specifically mentions homosexual unions, that being, monogomous unions analogous to heterosexual marriage

 

[Andreusz]

Polite? LOL!

I'd be interested to know what you mean by this comment.

Those whose consciences are seared by sin--well---they are rejecting God's word out of hand and they will pay for their own sin, because they make a mockery of Jesus' atonement.

You forgot to add 'Bwahahhahaha!'

 

[visionary]

Sin is sin and no amount of cloaking is going to change that the actual act itself is condemned.

 

[Andreusz]

God says it is an abomination. Therefore, guess what? It is! It's not rocket science. Immorality is not something that is perceived individually. God tells us plainly what it is. What we are discussing here is the sinfulness of homosexuality. those who follw closely after God and have a relationship with Jesus Christ will be sensitive to that fact.

I'm not going to accept that my lifestyle is sinful just because of some verses scribbled on some ancient goatskins. I want to know WHY your God considers it sinful.

 

[kiwimac]

Heiferdust. The Bible condemns temple prostitution and pederasty but I challenge you to provide ONE verse which condemns homosexuality as it is understood today.

 

[EvangelicalChristian]

EC, In suggesting a little historical research I was not necessarily suggesting the ECF. However allow me to suggest some reading which might provide some thoughtful pauses for you, and others, wrt Homosexual marriages.

Smith-Rosenberg, The Female World of love and Ritual: Relations Between Women in Nineteenth-Century America, I SIGNS I, 9, 27 (1975)

As well I recommend the following books;

Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century
by John Boswell, University of Chicago Press, 1981, ISBN 0226067114

Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe. By John Boswell. New York: Vintage Press, 1995, ISBN 0679751645.

A review of which makes the following observations:

Quote Source

It looks like interesting reading, thank you for the recommendations. I am always happy to view an issue from as many points of view as possible.

Tommy

 

[EvangelicalChristian]

As noted racists have issues with the behavior blacks engage in when the ‘behave’ as if they were social equal to whites not specifically the color of anyone’s skin. Racists don’t mind blacks who act in their “biblically defined roles”

And again I contend that the hatred stems from a perceived inferiority. This has been my experience and what I have learned in more than a few Sociology classes. That some, maybe most, racists are also disturbed by those who they perceive to be inferior asserting that no such inferiority exists and claiming their rights as humans is secondary. Not that it isn't important but it is not the primary reason for the hatred.

Sexual orientation is not “behavior”

I believe I have stated that several times myself. Orientation is not behavior I agree completely.

It is interesting to note that even the most rabid homophobes here would be content if gays and lesbians pretended to be heterosexual (thus a behavior) which is the cornerstone of ex-gay ministries. Of course pretending to be heterosexual doesn’t make one heterosexual.

I don't know of any homophobes here although I am pretty new, but I think most would be content if homosexuals who actively engaged in homosexual sex would cease that activity. I don't know much about the ex-gay ministries and am not qualified to comment about them but I would doubt that it is possible to change who one is attracted to.

And racists happily state that their beliefs are based on the bible just like yours are.

You seem to think your position is morally superior to theirs. Can you explain why?

Well to begin with I believe that my position is justified and supported by Scripture. I don't believe that theirs would be. Additionally it seems that you believe your position to be morally superior to mine do you not?
Maybe most importantly I do not perceive persons who engage in homosexual sex to be any more or less human than I, nor do I support discrimination against them.

Does that mean racists “hate” blacks…or just the way blacks choose to behave?

From my experience and education racists hate blacks because they believe them to be inferior. They may also hate the behavior or some blacks but that is not the root of the hatred.