Biblical support for gay sex? A simple question

[brightmorningstar]

To KCKID,

Excuse me? What are you saying precisely? Are you saying that 'gays' are restricted to believing what YOU believe and that the forum guidelines revolve around YOUR belief?

No. I am saying that Christian views revolve around the Bible rather than what gays believe and feel. This is why I cite and quote the Bible.

Any relationship could exist and feel good and right for the person who feels it hence adultery, paedophilia etc. The right and proper one according to scripture however is man and woman in a faithful marriage.

You really have NO empathy for a 'gay' person at all, do you bms? Even though some TRY to do the right thing you STILL resort to condemning them. Such a brand of Christianity is one that I chose not to follow shortly after joining this forum. I have no regrets.

Of course I have empathy for gay people, I have friends who are gay, I have even more empathy however for Jesus Christ and His NT teachings.

The thread is Biblical support for gay sex, to date most who propose ist ok like yourself have offerred little Biblical evidence and tried to claim your Christian beliefs are based on your own ideas.
The bottom line is I am quite prepared to debate the issues of what Christians believe about homosexuality and cite scripture to support it in accordance with the rules and guidelines, but I am not prepared to discuss in this section the validity of the Biblical testimony for Christianity. As far as you are concerned the Bible versions say homosexual offenders, sodomites and men abusers with themselves shall not inherit the Kingdom, if you dont believe what the Bible says you are a non believer of what the Bible says.

 

[KCKID]

So, what you seem to be saying is that God basically requires 'robots' that are incapable of free thinking ...no opinions allowed? That IS what you're saying, isn't it? Atheism is looking better by the minute if that is what Christianity is supposed to be about.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To KCKID,
What you have propsed so far looks like atheism already, little to do with Christianity,

2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." ... I believe that means everyone

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Of course I have empathy for gay people, I have friends who are gay, I have even more empathy however for Jesus Christ and His NT teachings. Your brand of Christianity is has counterfit beliefs.

With the best will in the world, I have never seen anything from you that would suggest you have the slightest skerric of empathy for homosexual people.

Final thought for the evening...

If anyone can come up with a concrete, logically consistent reason why God should have a problem with my homosexuality, I'll renounce my homosexuality immediately and pledge myself to a life of celibacy. Promise.
*gauntlet thrown*

 

[brightmorningstar]

To EnemyPartyII,
Of course I have empathy for gay people, I have friends who are gay, I have even more empathy however for Jesus Christ and His NT teachings. Your brand of Christianity is has counterfit beliefs.

With the best will in the world, I have never seen anything from you that would suggest you have the slightest skerric of empathy for homosexual people.

I find that encouraging as I haven’t agreed with anything else you have written. Nevertheless that’s just your judgement.
By the way you don’t mind quoting ‘do not judge’ to me while judging me.

If anyone can come up with a concrete, logically consistent reason why God should have a problem with my homosexuality, I'll renounce my homosexuality immediately and pledge myself to a life of celibacy. Promise.

*gauntlet thrown*

Well many have shown you what the Bible says but firstly whether you choose to acknowledge it is your choice to make. Secondly the thread is about Biblical support for gay sex, not how to convince EnemypartyII’

 

[Polycarp_fan]

With the best will in the world, I have never seen anything from you that would suggest you have the slightest skerric of empathy for homosexual people.

The problem, EP2, is that ANY, even slightly positive tone towards "a" person that claims to be gay or lesbian, is taken as complete and total support of everything that the gay community desires and demands. People are people, no matter what sexual acts makes you feel the best, there are wonderful people in every shade of human expression. (oops) BUT, too much of what the gay community wants is unacceptable to so many people and just about the enture Christians Church worldwide.

Final thought for the evening...

If anyone can come up with a concrete, logically consistent reason why God should have a problem with my homosexuality, I'll renounce my homosexuality immediately and pledge myself to a life of celibacy. Promise.
*gauntlet thrown*

I would love to engage you in that, but the vitriol, hatred and anger that has to do with every engagement with the subject of homosexuality, will get me into even more trouble here, as even the nicest and sweetest way of saying that gay culture should be jettisoned for a life "in" the Chuch, is seen as a flame or baiting by the people on your side of this issue.

If you can suggest a way for an "anti-gay" Christian - because that is the way any and every person that does not support gay activism IS SEEN AS by those on your side -, to meet your challenge, I would be more than happy to pick up your gauntlet and accept your challenge.

 

[onemessiah]

To KCKID,

Your brand of Christianity is has counterfit beliefs.

Um, yeah....
Funny thing is, if I said this to him, my post would have been deleted, yet the mods let christians say this?

 

[onemessiah]

So, what you seem to be saying is that God basically requires 'robots' that are incapable of free thinking ...no opinions allowed? That IS what you're saying, isn't it? Atheism is looking better by the minute if that is what Christianity is supposed to be about.

Come, brother...make the leap to the Dark Side

Over here, you're encouraged to think for yourself, and aren't ostracized for defending your fellow men and women from quaint and outdated prejudices.

Imagine that; being ACCEPTED and VALUED for your opinions, rather than being accused of being a phony.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Come, brother...make the leap to the Dark Side

And there you have it KC.

Over here, you're encouraged to think for yourself, and aren't ostracized for defending your fellow men and women from quaint and outdated prejudices.

Yet, KC, if you ever dare to state that something cannot come from nothing, believe me, you will know the meaning of ostarcized. I am from the atheist camp.

Imagine that; being ACCEPTED and VALUED for your opinions, rather than being accused of being a phony.

What deist is valued by atheists? Only atheist are allowed to be accepted and valued by atheists. Seems like "free" thinking means only one way of thinking with the exclusions of any other.

KC? You really want that? You are "free" to worship in a gay supporting Church, with acceptance and tolerance to boot. Try asking an atheist if you can hold that there "may be" a creator and see how you're treated.

Now see why this:

1 Corinthians 6:

[/quote]1When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints?

2Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?

3Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers,

6but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 7To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?[/quote]

And:

15 "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them."

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant

21Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?" 22Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

23"Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. 24When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.' 27And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. 28But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii, and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, 'Pay what you owe.' 29So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' 30He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. 31When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place.

32Then his master summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?' 34 And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt. 35So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."

KC, have I ever once written that gays and lesbians, bisexuals or transgendered are not allowed in any Church anywhere?

How many Christians are welcomed as "freethinkers," even though that is exactly the way they came to Christ?

 

[onemessiah]

And there you have it KC.



Yet, KC, if you ever dare to state that something cannot come from nothing, believe me, you will know the meaning of ostarcized. I am from the atheist camp.



What deist is valued by atheists? Only atheist are allowed to be accepted and valued by atheists. Seems like "free" thinking means only one way of thinking with the exclusions of any other.

KC? You really want that? You are "free" to worship in a gay supporting Church, with acceptance and tolerance to boot. Try asking an atheist if you can hold that there "may be" a creator and see how you're treated.

Um, sure...THAT is an accurate depiction of what atheism is.

I think KC is more than capable of discerning right from wrong, so I won't bother pointing out the flaws in your assertion of atheism. No need to pressure people into following you; or resorting to false accusations. They will come on their own when they're ready to.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To onemessiah,

Um, yeah....
Funny thing is, if I said this to him, my post would have been deleted, yet the mods let christians say this?

The requirement is some reasoning to go with the proposal. My reasoning was the views were unbiblical according to the passages I cited.

 

[onemessiah]

To onemessiah,
The requirement is some reasoning to go with the proposal. My reasoning was the views were unbiblical according to the passages I cited.

Sure, and I provide more than ample reasoning for my assertions, but they get deleted on the basis that I am an atheist.

At any rate, it doesn't matter what your reasoning is since it's loud and clear that you're not supposed to accuse christians of not being true christians.

"Your brand of christianity is counterfeit"....well, need I say more?

But I really could care less, I think you SHOULD be allowed to say it, I just wanted to point out the double standard; rules seem to be enforced selectively around here.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Sure, and I provide more than ample reasoning for my assertions, but they get deleted on the basis that I am an atheist.

At any rate, it doesn't matter what your reasoning is since it's loud and clear that you're not supposed to accuse christians of not being true christians.

"Your brand of christianity is counterfeit"....well, need I say more?

But I really could care less, I think you SHOULD be allowed to say it, I just wanted to point out the double standard; rules seem to be enforced selectively around here.

With all due respect:

What is your religious basis for judging we conservative Christians that do not agree with our liberal-Christian opposition? Has any one of them produced any scripture to support supporting gay sex to be engaged in by "anyone" let alone "Christians?"

 

[onemessiah]

With all due respect:

What is your religious basis for judging we conservative Christians that do not agree with our liberal-Christian opposition? Has any one of them produced any scripture to support supporting gay sex to be engaged in by "anyone" let alone "Christians?"

If christians debate amongst each other the biblical grounds of homosexuality, that is none of my business.
When they try to make laws based on their religion, then I have the right to speak my mind.

So, to answer your question, I don't have a religious basis on the matter because I'm not involved in your internal affairs. If you want to fight amongst each other, then that makes it very hard for the rest of us to take ANY of you seriously....not being rude, but it's the truth. Even Jesus said that a house divided will fall.

 

[prettyfly4awhiteguy]

Sure, and I provide more than ample reasoning for my assertions, but they get deleted on the basis that I am an atheist.

At any rate, it doesn't matter what your reasoning is since it's loud and clear that you're not supposed to accuse christians of not being true christians.

"Your brand of christianity is counterfeit"....well, need I say more?

But I really could care less, I think you SHOULD be allowed to say it, I just wanted to point out the double standard; rules seem to be enforced selectively around here.

I saw that your thread got closed by the mods...I don't see why; you made some good points. I've been lurking on this forum for a while, and I hate to say it, but nonchristians do seem to get the short end of the stick around here. Maybe you should try changing your icon, then you'll be free to say what's on your mind.
That said, maybe you should also try toning it down a little too. I know u don't mean anything perosnal but people around here seem to have thin skin, so better safe than sorry. But good stuff, i don't always agree with you but u ask good questions whether ppl want to hear them or not.

 

[prettyfly4awhiteguy]

With all due respect:

What is your religious basis for judging we conservative Christians that do not agree with our liberal-Christian opposition? Has any one of them produced any scripture to support supporting gay sex to be engaged in by "anyone" let alone "Christians?"

The bible doesn't support gay sex as far as i can see but i also dont see why this is such a huge issue between us. A brother in Christ is still a brother in Christ, whether u like what they do or not. It is up to our Father to judge no one else. All u can do is tell them what the bible says and leave it at that. Arguing over this is stupid, so is the way society treats gays. There's more important things to fight for. What about our brothers overseas engaged in war on our country's behalf? They deserve our attention and efforts, not fighting against people who aren't harming anyone else.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

They deserve our attention and efforts, not fighting against people who aren't harming anyone else.

a crux issue... consentual homosexuality harms no one else

 

[prettyfly4awhiteguy]

a crux issue... consentual homosexuality harms no one else

Are you implying that it does? Or just an observation that people think it harms others? My dad is gay, and I can assure you that my life growing up was better than anything I ever deserved.
Either way, there are much much more impotant things to worry about.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Are you implying that it does? Or just an observation that people think it harms others? My dad is gay, and I can assure you that my life growing up was better than anything I ever deserved.
Either way, there are much much more impotant things to worry about.

No, I contend that since consentual homosexuality harms no one else, its no one's business but the homosexuals. I agree that people would be much better off worrying about real issues of some relevence to them, rather than worrying about what other people get up to in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

To onemessiah,
The requirement is some reasoning to go with the proposal. My reasoning was the views were unbiblical according to the passages I cited.

according to YOUR INTERPRETATION of the cited passages